342 réponses à ce sujet

[SuchBeautifulNoiz]

I always play a mage and side with the mages when given a choice. It would be nice to be able to play a character that works to give the power over to the mages, but we probably won't have that much freedom.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Uldred summoned an incredibly powerful demon out of desperation.

 

Thats like a mage suicide bomb.

No he didn't?

He summoned demon because he thought he will be able to control him and take over the circle it didn't end well... (which is another of many examples how stupid mages are how big price for that stupidty is)

Mages have proven many times they can't be trusted because they can't handle most obstacles that life throws at them without reaching for blood magic or without becoming abomnation.

[Innsmouth Dweller]

you cannot RP such char in those games, imagine the dialogue tree. supporting mages - sure, freeing them - why not. but i don't think they will give us the option to put mages in caretakers of Thedas status. i don't think we'll be able to RP Tevinter magister either.

and thus how all those despised head canons are born...

[KainD]

How does have weird mind powers make you the "Best of the Best"? Most of those character types sacrifice physicality, durability or something else that other, more "mundane" classes are far better than them at. Mages in DA are quite fragile compared to other classes. I'm not sure who would win in a straight up brawl between classes, but Mages didn't strike me as being superior to other classes.

We are talking lore, not gameplay. A mage trained in the art of battle is going to beat a mundane every single time.

[Sir DeLoria]

We are talking lore, not gameplay. A mage trained in the art of battle is going to beat a mundane every single time.

Unless that mundane is an experienced Templar who can silence the opponent's magic.

Drone is right in both gameplay and lore though. Heavy armor makes casting much harder, weapons training takes years, armor training takes years and so does the physical excercise required to perform both of these things. A mage should instead focus on honing their casting skills, a practice which takes a lot of time as well.

So yes, a mage could be a fighter, but they'd excell at neither magic nor physical combat.

[Sir DeLoria]

You're completely right a mage ruled society would only last a hand full of months before the entire population became abominations and started to plunge the world in a pit of fire.....
 
Except Tevinter is ruled by mages, is the oldest human civilization on Thedas, and it hasn't fallen apart and has a fully functioning government.
 
How strange!

Tevinter actually has its own branch of the Templar order, who do step in when (non magister) mages go too far. So it's not like Tevinter is free of any regulation on magic.

Na, nah. That's a lot more healthy and fun than submitting to the templars. Also it's not an infection, it's a beautiful union.

Depends what kind of spirit posesses you. But it usually ends with the host becoming a mindless minion, completely corrupted and/or dead.

Nothing beautiful about that.

[Inprea]

A supremacist no. If the game gave you the ability to play an elitist that would be a different story. Just because someone is a mage doesn't mean they're better then someone else. It depends on how powerful or useful they are. If I had the choice between a master blacksmith that could craft armor that would compare to a dwarf master work or even make a dwarf smith cry in shame or a mage that struggled to light a candle or create a static spark I'd favor the smith.

 

I would prefer to uplift those that are useful or could be made useful. Sort of like playing world of warcraft. I would happily help people get gear if I believed they would be useful which mostly meant they would follow and could follow instructions. I tended to ignore the the slow learners or those that had no interest in larger efforts.

[Ap0state]

A supremacist no. If the game gave you the ability to play an elitist that would be a different story. Just because someone is a mage doesn't mean they're better then someone else. It depends on how powerful or useful they are. If I had the choice between a master blacksmith that could craft armor that would compare to a dwarf master work or even make a dwarf smith cry in shame or a mage that struggled to light a candle or create a static spark I'd favor the smith.

 

I would prefer to uplift those that are useful or could be made useful. Sort of like playing world of warcraft. I would happily help people get gear if I believed they would be useful which mostly meant they would follow and could follow instructions. I tended to ignore the the slow learners or those that had no interest in larger efforts.

The issue is that the game allows you to take the other extreme, which is why people want this one. Doesn't seem too balanced that if you oppose them, you can imprison/enslave them, but if you support them the only option is equality. 

[DavoRaydn]

as the saying goes: Power corrupts, absoltue power corrupts absolutely...so no such thing as benevolent dictators. eventually they will corrupt, mage or no mage

[KainD]

Unless that mundane is an experienced Templar who can silence the opponent's magic.

Drone is right in both gameplay and lore though. Heavy armor makes casting much harder, weapons training takes years, armor training takes years and so does the physical excercise required to perform both of these things. A mage should instead focus on honing their casting skills, a practice which takes a lot of time as well.

So yes, a mage could be a fighter, but they'd excell at neither magic nor physical combat.

For Templar to win against a mage, it needs to be one hell of a templar and a subpar mage. Templars take mages by numbers, and the ones they fight are either apostates with little to no training, or trained circle mages, who are by no means properly battle trained.

There is no need for a mage to train in physical combat, magic is the superior offense and defence.

[TheKomandorShepard]

For Templar to win against a mage, it needs to be one hell of a templar and a subpar mage. Templars take mages by numbers, and the ones they fight are either apostates with little to no training, or trained circle mages, who are by no means properly battle trained.

There is no need for a mage to train in physical combat, magic is the superior offense and defence.

Yeah we saw this in kirkwall scene mages vs templars when templars practically destroyed mages or in asunder same for dawn of the seeker.

[Super Drone]

For Templar to win against a mage, it needs to be one hell of a templar and a subpar mage. Templars take mages by numbers, and the ones they fight are either apostates with little to no training, or trained circle mages, who are by no means properly battle trained.

There is no need for a mage to train in physical combat, magic is the superior offense and defence.

 

Where's your proof of this? in the Lore, mages get slaughtered all the time by non mages. Sure, Mages can wipe the floor with groups of untrained guardsmen, but powerful, well-trained Mages have been killed by a dude who was really good with a sword and who had the fortitude to shrug off the spell and just stab the Mage. Case in point: Maric against the Orlesian advisor to Mehgran in The Stolen Throne. Or Bregan against the Architect in  The Calling. Not Templars, just skilled warriors.

[TheJediSaint]

Lambert was pretty effective at womping mages with that black null-magic blade he used in Asunder.  I think in Dragon Age, a competent warrior with good equipment can give ruin even a powerful mage's day.

[Sir DeLoria]

For Templar to win against a mage, it needs to be one hell of a templar and a subpar mage. Templars take mages by numbers, and the ones they fight are either apostates with little to no training, or trained circle mages, who are by no means properly battle trained.

How do you explain the fact then that a small garrison of maybe 50 Templars can easily wipe out an entire circle if they so have to? The only time we see mages being a any trouble for Templars, is if they summoned/got posessed by demons.

There is no need for a mage to train in physical combat, magic is the superior offense and defence.

Well yeah, in ranged combat, but if a warrior gets too close the mage is toast. Magic provides very little defence against physical damage.

[Xilizhra]

Unless that mundane is an experienced Templar who can silence the opponent's magic.

Drone is right in both gameplay and lore though. Heavy armor makes casting much harder, weapons training takes years, armor training takes years and so does the physical excercise required to perform both of these things. A mage should instead focus on honing their casting skills, a practice which takes a lot of time as well.

So yes, a mage could be a fighter, but they'd excell at neither magic nor physical combat.

Except for arcane warriors, who apparently learn it all instantly. And knight-enchanters, who seem to be able to use magic for melee combat.

 

 

How do you explain the fact then that a small garrison of maybe 50 Templars can easily wipe out an entire circle if they so have to? The only time we see mages being a any trouble for Templars, is if they summoned/got posessed by demons.

They don't; they tend to call in for reinforcements. And Kirkwall's garrison seemed far larger than fifty. Finally, I think that the mages in Dawn of the Seeker hold their own pretty well against the templars.

 

 

Well yeah, in ranged combat, but if a warrior gets too close the mage is toast. Magic provides very little defence against physical damage.

Have you ever fought alongside Merrill?

[TheKomandorShepard]

Except for arcane warriors, who apparently learn it all instantly. And knight-enchanters, who seem to be able to use magic for melee combat.

 

 

They don't; they tend to call in for reinforcements. And Kirkwall's garrison seemed far larger than fifty. Finally, I think that the mages in Dawn of the Seeker hold their own pretty well against the templars.

 

 

Have you ever fought alongside Merrill?

arcane warrior is worst type of mage to fight templar as templar will simple turn off magic and AW is done.

[Xilizhra]

arcane warrior is worst type of mage to fight templar as templar will simple turn off magic and AW is done.

They can do so temporarily, but the arcane warrior can stand up to the templar until Silence wears off, and it has a rather short duration and a rather long cooldown.

[TheKomandorShepard]

They can do so temporarily, but the arcane warrior can stand up to the templar until Silence wears off, and it has a rather short duration and a rather long cooldown.

Well even if we talk just only about gameplay then holy smite and mage is done if we talk more real combat mage vs arcane warrior arcane warrior is still screwd as his skills are gone and he face templar in close combat.So unless that arcane warrior is the ace and mastered non-magical battle skills as well there is a little chance for AW to win. 

[Xilizhra]

Well even if we talk just only about gameplay then holy smite and mage is done if we talk more real combat mage vs arcane warrior arcane warrior is still screwd as his skills are gone and he face templar in close combat.So unless that arcane warrior is the ace and mastered non-magical battle skills as well there is a little chance for AW to win. 

Holy Smite can do damage, but it's more of an AOE to attack multiple weaker foes clustering around you; it's not designed for spike damage. And the arcane warrior will be able to renew spells long before the templar's Silence cools down.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Holy Smite can do damage, but it's more of an AOE to attack multiple weaker foes clustering around you; it's not designed for spike damage. And the arcane warrior will be able to renew spells long before the templar's Silence cools down.

At this point AW wouldn't have mana and got hefty damage dealt by templar so pretty much not pretty end for aw.

[Xilizhra]

At this point AW wouldn't have mana and got hefty damage dealt by templar so pretty much not pretty end for aw.

Templars don't have any talents to drain mana.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Templars don't have any talents to drain mana.

this and this

[TK514]

Err, Templars don't have any trouble against your non-protagonist lyrium using Circle Mage. That's literally the exact person they were created to kill.

Blood Mages cause Templars trouble because they have to mostly rely on their passive magic resistance rather than their lyrium manipulating active powers.

Demons and abominations can require groups of Templars, and the Templars are still more effective than regular forces. But again, unless you're a protagonist a demon or abomination is a town murdering juggernaut.

TKS is right. Without dragging gameplay mechanics into a lore fight, a lyrium based Arcane Warrior, lore wise, would be a terrible choice to take against a Templar. It hardly matters how often the Templar can silence a Mage if they only need to do it once. It'd be hard to recast spells with an elite warrior making a mockery of your attempts to defend yourself without magic, or with a sword in the guts, since lore fights wouldn't be people pounding on bags of hit points. Maybe theoretically immortal Ancient Elves had enough time to master magic and physical combat, but that would not be a luxury any but the most exceptional people would have in modern Thedas.

[Xilizhra]

this and this

No longer present in the update.

 

 

Err, Templars don't have any trouble against your non-protagonist lyrium using Circle Mage. That's literally the exact person they were created to kill.

Blood Mages cause Templars trouble because they have to mostly rely on their passive magic resistance rather than their lyrium manipulating active powers.

Demons and abominations can require groups of Templars, and the Templars are still more effective than regular forces. But again, unless you're a protagonist a demon or abomination is a town murdering juggernaut.

TKS is right. Without dragging gameplay mechanics into a lore fight, a lyrium based Arcane Warrior, lore wise, would be a terrible choice to take against a Templar. It hardly matters how often the Templar can silence a Mage if they only need to do it once. It'd be hard to recast spells with an elite warrior making a mockery of your attempts to defend yourself without magic, or with a sword in the guts, since lore fights wouldn't be people pounding on bags of hit points. Maybe theoretically immortal Ancient Elves had enough time to master magic and physical combat, but that would not be a luxury any but the most exceptional people would have in modern Thedas.

Arcane warriors use their magic stat to determine combat prowess. And Silence only lasts a few seconds; there's plenty of time to recast spells.

 

As for templars vs. squishier mages, one of the biggest advantages the templars have is the close quarters of most of the Circles, in addition to the fact that the vast majority of Circle mages aren't even trained in combat; in the open, mages can rain destruction on templars before the latter can close to melee.