342 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

No longer present in the update.

 

This is templar in dao there is no arcane warrior in da 2 so gameplay battle have only sense when we do that on dao bulit.

[TK514]

No longer present in the update.
 
 

Arcane warriors use their magic stat to determine combat prowess. And Silence only lasts a few seconds; there's plenty of time to recast spells.
 
As for templars vs. squishier mages, one of the biggest advantages the templars have is the close quarters of most of the Circles, in addition to the fact that the vast majority of Circle mages aren't even trained in combat; in the open, mages can rain destruction on templars before the latter can close to melee.

So you would have us believe that specific anti-Mage warriors are terrible against Mages.

Sure. I have every reason to believe your head canon over lore that spans more than a thousand years.

[Xilizhra]

So you would have us believe that specific anti-Mage warriors are terrible against Mages.

Sure. I have every reason to believe your head canon over lore that spans more than a thousand years.

They're the mundane warriors who are best at fighting mages, for whatever that's worth.

[TheKomandorShepard]

So you would have us believe that specific anti-Mage warriors are terrible against Mages.

Sure. I have every reason to believe your head canon over lore that spans more than a thousand years.

Well to be honest lore is so twisted and undecided on mages or templar powers that it is easy lost in it.It seems that lore can't decide whether mages are powerful or just to wipe the floor.

[sunnydxmen]

i always do bow down peasants.

[Super Drone]

i always do bow down peasants.

 

Is it just a "Nerds rule, Jocks drool" mentality?

 

"People that have Cool Mind Powers are awesome and better than everyone else because they are smart, and I consider myself smart so I they should always be the best".

 

I just don't get it....

[Swoopdogg]

Off-topic, in response to people saying that basically mages deserve their fate because they are too dangerous:

 

Magic is dangerous, but so are bombs and poison and swords and crossbows

 

You can't make someone a prisoner for life because of how they are born

 

There has to be a better way

 

Yes, there needs to be supervision, but not nearly at the extent of the circles we know. You can't treat every mage like a criminal by default.

 

There should be a sort of supervision mage-police force, but it cannot be the Templars. They need to be done away with entirely at this point and replaced with a completely new order.

 

The reason so many mages turn to blood magic is because of how magic is taught to them for their whole life.

 

"You aren't a normal person like everyone else. You're a weapon. Magic is a curse. You are a constant threat to everyone around you."

 

I think it's obvious where the problem is there. If I was taught that my whole life, I don't think I could say no to my fellow mage who comes up to me and says, "Hey, screw this bs, right? Let's do some blood magic. We're apparently already walking conduits of evil anyway, according to way too many templars and fellow mages and the chantry."

 

Mages need to be taught balance and discipline while also feeling like ordinary members of society. Maybe start by not tearing them away from their parents and locking them away in a tower? Maybe the reason a lot of them are messed up is because they grew up away from their mother and father (or any strong parent figure)

 

People have brought up the idea of mage schools and that would actually work. Just start a Mages Guild system where every mage has to join a guild hall (and there will be many in many different towns and cities) and learn the ways of magic in a controlled and responsible way from responsible senior mages.

 

Basically there just needs to be a middle ground.

 

/off-topic

[The Baconer]

Well yeah, in ranged combat, but if a warrior gets too close the mage is toast. Magic provides very little defence against physical damage.

 

Given the host of spells devoted to doing exactly that (including one that stopped Michel from being able to attack, IIRC), I'd say that isn't true.

[Xilizhra]

 

Is it just a "Nerds rule, Jocks drool" mentality?

 

"People that have Cool Mind Powers are awesome and better than everyone else because they are smart, and I consider myself smart so I they should always be the best".

 

I just don't get it....

Well, if you can bend reality with your mind, most would consider that a significant advantage.

[Super Drone]

Well, if you can bend reality with your mind, most would consider that a significant advantage.

 But not an overwhelmingly signifigant advantage against all Non-Mages ever Period Full-stop. The game and the lore shows powerful mages who have been bested by Templars, and even *gasp* ordinary "mundanes" in a fight. When confronted with this, it gets written off as "Gameplay/Lore segregation" or ignored... 

 

It feels like people want Mages to be more powerful (and more entitled, and more blameless and always correct) than both the game and the Lore ever gave them credit for. The Devs certainly never said any of this stuff, and thus it sounds like more people's personal power fantasies than any facts in the Lore itself...

[TheKomandorShepard]

Off-topic, in response to people saying that basically mages deserve their fate because they are too dangerous:

 

Magic is dangerous, but so are bombs and poison and swords and crossbows

 

You can't make someone a prisoner for life because of how they are born

 

There has to be a better way

 

Yes, there needs to be supervision, but not nearly at the extent of the circles we know. You can't treat every mage like a criminal by default.

 

There should be a sort of supervision mage-police force, but it cannot be the Templars. They need to be done away with entirely at this point and replaced with a completely new order.

 

The reason so many mages turn to blood magic is because of how magic is taught to them for their whole life.

 

"You aren't a normal person like everyone else. You're a weapon. Magic is a curse. You are a constant threat to everyone around you."

 

I think it's obvious where the problem is there. If I was taught that my whole life, I don't think I could say no to my fellow mage who comes up to me and says, "Hey, screw this bs, right? Let's do some blood magic. We're apparently already walking conduits of evil anyway, according to way too many templars and fellow mages and the chantry."

 

Mages need to be taught balance and discipline while also feeling like ordinary members of society. Maybe start by not tearing them away from their parents and locking them away in a tower? Maybe the reason a lot of them are messed up is because they grew up away from their mother and father (or any strong parent figure)

 

People have brought up the idea of mage schools and that would actually work. Just start a Mages Guild system where every mage has to join a guild hall (and there will be many in many different towns and cities) and learn the ways of magic in a controlled and responsible way from responsible senior mages.

 

Basically there just needs to be a middle ground.

 

/off-topic

 

Cricles were middle ground and it didn't worked...

 

Bomb doesn't have free will and are controlled good luck with finding bomb.

 

Mages already proved that they will reach for blood magic or end as abomnation when life will throw obstacle in their way...

 

In fact if circles show something it is that mages aren't controled enough not they are controled too much damage caused by mages to that point only proves that. 

[Swoopdogg]

Cricles were middle ground and it didn't worked...

 

Bomb doesn't have free will and are controlled good luck with finding bomb.

 

Mages already proved that they will reach for blood magic or end as abomnation when life will throw obstacle in their way...

 

In fact if circles show something it is that mages aren't controled enough not they are controled too much damage caused by mages to that point only proves that. 

How in the world were circles middle ground? Locking every mage in Thedas up for life is almost the absolute extreme (which would be just killing all of them).

 

The middle ground would be between the camp of "lock them up/kill them" and "set them all loose without restriction"

 

Hence supervised mages guild.

 

Many mages have reached for blood magic because of being oppressed. If things were different, there would be a lot less blood mages

 

If circles show anything, it's that mages don't want to be locked up in a tower for their entire life. That's a pretty normal thing for everyone to not want for themselves, don't you think?

[The Baconer]

How in the world were circles middle ground? Locking every mage in Thedas up for life is almost the absolute extreme (which would be just killing all of them).

 

There's always the Qun.

[The Baconer]

Another thing that's almost never brought up in discussion like this. Why not teach everybody what the templars do?  You don't need lyrium for it. 

 

You do. Confirmed by Alistair in the comics and I think Gaider.

[TheKomandorShepard]

How in the world were circles middle ground? Locking every mage in Thedas up for life is almost the absolute extreme (which would be just killing all of them).

 

The middle ground would be between the camp of "lock them up/kill them" and "set them all loose without restriction"

 

Hence supervised mages guild.

 

Many mages have reached for blood magic because of being oppressed. If things were different, there would be a lot less blood mages

 

If circles show anything, it's that mages don't want to be locked up in a tower for their entire life. That's a pretty normal thing for everyone to not want for themselves, don't you think?

 

Extreme would be killing them (what would be most effective solution) or qunari solution.

 

Circle was middle ground between freedom and safety it failed at both why because either you will give mages freedom and lose safety or take mages freedom and control them and rest of the world will be safe.  Middle ground doesn't mean good or effective i think that peoples rly should stop to think that middle ground solves problems.

 

Not rly only few we saw reached for blood magic because templars and it is only one of thousand excuses pretty much power corrupts tevinter is best example of that same many mages we saw.Blood magic is easy way out so mages will keep reach for that when it will be convenient like when loved one will be sick and dying and 1000 other situations.

 

No one wants but if mages get what they want see tevinter...

[TheKomandorShepard]

No, you don't.  He says lyrium just makes you more powerful.  If this was the case, he *couldn't* use his templar powers as he doesn't use lyrium - he confirms he has no lyrium addiction. 

You need lyrium it was changed after dao.

[Xilizhra]

 But not an overwhelmingly signifigant advantage against all Non-Mages ever Period Full-stop. The game and the lore shows powerful mages who have been bested by Templars, and even *gasp* ordinary "mundanes" in a fight. When confronted with this, it gets written off as "Gameplay/Lore segregation" or ignored... 

 

It feels like people want Mages to be more powerful (and more entitled, and more blameless and always correct) than both the game and the Lore ever gave them credit for. The Devs certainly never said any of this stuff, and thus it sounds like more people's personal power fantasies than any facts in the Lore itself...

It depends a lot on positioning. What mages excel at more than anyone else is AOE attacks from range; a mage is more likely than anyone else to crush a group of foes coming at them. Against foes who've been beefed up with some kind of magic resistance, though, mages will have more trouble against even smaller numbers of those; that said, we've never seen anyone who was wholly immune to magic, and I'm fairly sure that the power of mages in combat, when working together, will grow exponentially.

Also, a creative mage with the right spells could theoretically stunlock a lot of single enemies.

[The Baconer]

No, you don't.  He says lyrium just makes you more powerful.  If this was the case, he *couldn't* use his templar powers as he doesn't use lyrium - he confirms he has no lyrium addiction. 

 

Yes, but this was either retconned later, or just a personal theory of Alistair's that turned out to be wrong.

 

Gaider's quote: "Even if Templar magic was recognized as spellcasting, it's not innate to the Templars, if they just stopped taking lyrium eventually they would lose the ability. Although as Alistair proves, they can use the ability for a long time afterwards."

[Swoopdogg]

Extreme would be killing them (what would be most effective solution) or qunari solution.

 

Circle was middle ground between freedom and safety it failed at both why because either you will give mages freedom and lose safety or take mages freedom and control them and rest of the world will be safe.  Middle ground doesn't mean good or effective i think that peoples rly should stop to think that middle ground solves problems.

 

Not rly only few we saw reached for blood magic because templars and it is only one of thousand excuses pretty much power corrupts tevinter is best example of that same many mages we saw.Blood magic is easy way out so mages will keep reach for that when it will be convenient like when loved one will be sick and dying and 1000 other situations.

 

No one wants but if mages get what they want see tevinter...

Tevinter ended up like Tevinter because Tevinter is Tevinter.

 

It's part of their culture for mages to be supreme. It didn't just end up that way. The Tevinter mages have a long-standing and unwavering belief that their magic makes them naturally superior.

 

The other nations in Thedas do not share this belief (as a culture. Granted there are some people who believe they are superior)

 

One case does not lead to conclusive evidence. Give me a few more Tevinters and maybe I'll listen to you, but until then, Tevinter is not a good example

[TheKomandorShepard]

Tevinter ended up like Tevinter because Tevinter is Tevinter.

 

It's part of their culture for mages to be supreme. It didn't just end up that way. The Tevinter mages have a long-standing and unwavering belief that their magic makes them naturally superior.

 

The other nations in Thedas do not share this belief (as a culture. Granted there are some people who believe they are superior)

 

One case does need lead to conclusive evidence. Give me a few more Tevinters and maybe I'll listen to you, but until then, Tevinter is not a good example

 

Tevinter is group of peoples specifically mages and shows what will happen if mages will get their freedom.Simple human nature + magic = bad mix. 

 

Other nations don't share this belief because they aren't mages.

 

Elven empire have another tevinter

[sunnydxmen]

 But not an overwhelmingly signifigant advantage against all Non-Mages ever Period Full-stop. The game and the lore shows powerful mages who have been bested by Templars, and even *gasp* ordinary "mundanes" in a fight. When confronted with this, it gets written off as "Gameplay/Lore segregation" or ignored... 

 

It feels like people want Mages to be more powerful (and more entitled, and more blameless and always correct) than both the game and the Lore ever gave them credit for. The Devs certainly never said any of this stuff, and thus it sounds like more people's personal power fantasies than any facts in the Lore itself...

 

the power to control reality is not just advantage its huge you could  pretty much do anything like erase people you feel are inferior from existence.