1609 réponses à ce sujet

[Deerber]

Pretty sure I haven't played the AIU more than once, which was on the day of release for a "solo".

Edit - Yeah, I thought so.

Mine still needs to be deployed.

Scrub.

[Quarian Master Race]

Mine still needs to be deployed.

Scrub.

I've two seperate accounts where it hasn't been deployed. 

GOML

[Cryos_Feron]

I have no idea why, but for years I ignored the Claymore GI..just started using him a few weeks ago..Honestly, it's really stupid the amount of damage he does and I even forgot to repec him out of a sniper build.. I Love this combo and I'm not going back

just because of more accuracy and a little bit faster reloading?
smart choke isn't enough?

the damage is not higher than EDIs, as I would assume. probably less

[LemurFromTheId]

just because of more accuracy and a little bit faster reloading?
smart choke isn't enough?

the damage is not higher than EDIs, as I would assume. probably less

 

Claymore GI >>> Claymore AIU

 

AIU's SF + Claymore deals slightly more damage than GI's PM + Claymore, but GI's ROF bonus still gives it better DPS and enables GI to kill mooks faster. And then there's the accuracy bonus... if you think it's small beans, you're wrong; accuracy matters way beyond smart choke.

[Quarian Master Race]

Claymore GI >>> Claymore AIU

 

AIU's SF + Claymore deals slightly more damage than GI's PM + Claymore, but GI's ROF bonus still gives it better DPS and enables GI to kill mooks faster. And then there's the accuracy bonus... if you think it's small beans, you're wrong; accuracy matters way beyond smart choke.

That's before factoring that the geth is not reliant on consumable/grenade use to maintain its movement speed, either. Or that PM has a good deal more range than SF to go with the GI's increased accuracy. Or free wallhax and thus a free gear slot as opposed to needing grenade gear of some sort.

Quarian created death machine> human created talking sextoy.

[Deerber]

That's before factoring that the geth is not reliant on consumable/grenade use to maintain its movement speed, either. Or that PM has a good deal more range than SF to go with the GI's increased accuracy. Or free wallhax and thus a free gear slot as opposed to needing grenade gear of some sort.

Quarian created death machine> human created talking sextoy.

 

And let's stress that EDI cannot take any grenade gear of any sort if it wants to keep up with a GI, because it'd lose wallhax.

 

just because of more accuracy and a little bit faster reloading?
smart choke isn't enough?

the damage is not higher than EDIs, as I would assume. probably less

 

It was explained already why the GI is (slightly, let's mind this) superior even with a Shotgun in hand, like a Claymore.

 

I would just like to add something on the topic of accuracy. Given the way it works, until you reach 100% bonus and it starts going reverse (wtf?), basically any bonus becomes stronger and more important the closer to 100% you are. That's the way of additive percentages. So if there *wasn't* a smart choke, then indeed the difference in accuracy wouldn't be worth much. But because there *is* one, the GI might, on average, at the same distance, and all other factors being the same, land from 100% to 300% (2 times/ 4 times) more pellets than the AIU does. The huge variation in that number is due to me not knowing exactly how accuracy works in this game, and whether it affects the cross section linearly or quadratically, basically.

 

So yeah, that 25% more accuracy on pellet based guns is HUGE

 

Also, the RoF bonus is actually a sizeable advantage as well, do not underestimate it. It's basically a DPS bonus that is multiplicative with everything.

[Cryos_Feron]

Claymore GI >>> Claymore AIU

AIU's SF + Claymore deals slightly more damage than GI's PM + Claymore, but GI's ROF bonus still gives it better DPS and enables GI to kill mooks faster. And then there's the accuracy bonus... if you think it's small beans, you're wrong; accuracy matters way beyond smart choke.

ok - given that you use PM liberally

[Marksmad is waving goodbye]

ok - given that you use PM liberally

Well, why wouldn't one?

[Cryos_Feron]

Well, why wouldn't one?

because it's one second.

there might be a relevant threshold for 1-hit-kills

also, then the reload time might be of less importance while running to the next enemy.

in case of clustered mooks: with 1 SF you debuff them all whereas a PM might not catch them all at once, nor goes through walls.

I am no fan of SF, I am just saying.


and as mentioned, mainly I am aiming at the scenario of not having to debuff at all

[Alfonsedode]

Claymore GI >>> Claymore AIU

 

AIU's SF + Claymore deals slightly more damage than GI's PM + Claymore, but GI's ROF bonus still gives it better DPS and enables GI to kill mooks faster. And then there's the accuracy bonus... if you think it's small beans, you're wrong; accuracy matters way beyond smart choke.

 

 

 

It was explained already why the GI is (slightly, let's mind this) superior even with a Shotgun in hand, like a Claymore.

 

I would just like to add something on the topic of accuracy. Given the way it works, until you reach 100% bonus and it starts going reverse (wtf?), basically any bonus becomes stronger and more important the closer to 100% you are. That's the way of additive percentages. So if there *wasn't* a smart choke, then indeed the difference in accuracy wouldn't be worth much. But because there *is* one, the GI might, on average, at the same distance, and all other factors being the same, land from 100% to 300% (2 times/ 4 times) more pellets than the AIU does. The huge variation in that number is due to me not knowing exactly how accuracy works in this game, and whether it affects the cross section linearly or quadratically, basically.

 

So yeah, that 25% more accuracy on pellet based guns is HUGE

 

Also, the RoF bonus is actually a sizeable advantage as well, do not underestimate it. It's basically a DPS bonus that is multiplicative with everything.

But, but ... the last rank of cloak !!!? lets say at 10 m

[Alfonsedode]

ot i redeployed the aim tracking training platform yesterday and its quite fun while quite dyable :

Ge with AP rounds GPR.

[Deerber]

But, but ... the last rank of cloak !!!? lets say at 10 m

The last rank of cloak doesn't provide accuracy bonuses, does it? Then it doesn't really count for this reasoning, I'm merely computing the average amount of bullets hitting the target. Then if those pellets do more damage, is a whole other story.

Still, we're talking about 4 times as many pellets here, likely. That means that each pellet should do 4 times as much damage to offset the accuracy issue. That just isn't the case. And even if it was, I'd still prefer hitting with 4 times as many pellets that deal 1/4th of the damage than the other way around, cause I'd lose less damage to shield gate. Armor mitigation, on the other hand, isn't usually a big factor because of AP ammo.

The distance also isn't a factor, as nothing in the computations depend on it. Except of course that if one is doing more damage per pellet, there is a threshold of distance needed for a fair comparison, as anywhere closer than that will result in both hitting with enough pellets for the most damaging one to outdamage the other, even if the other hits with all of its pellets.

In practice, that's hardly going to be noticeable since the difference in damage isn't great. And even if it was noticeable, I'd much rather deal say, 3 times the damage at anything from medium range on than deal 1.33 times the damage when closer than 5 m or so.

[LemurFromTheId]

The last rank of cloak doesn't provide accuracy bonuses, does it? Then it doesn't really count for this reasoning, I'm merely computing the average amount of bullets hitting the target. Then if those pellets do more damage, is a whole other story.

Still, we're talking about 4 times as many pellets here, likely. That means that each pellet should do 4 times as much damage to offset the accuracy issue. That just isn't the case. And even if it was, I'd still prefer hitting with 4 times as many pellets that deal 1/4th of the damage than the other way around, cause I'd lose less damage to shield gate. Armor mitigation, on the other hand, isn't usually a big factor because of AP ammo.

The distance also isn't a factor, as nothing in the computations depend on it. Except of course that if one is doing more damage per pellet, there is a threshold of distance needed for a fair comparison, as anywhere closer than that will result in both hitting with enough pellets for the most damaging one to outdamage the other, even if the other hits with all of its pellets.

In practice, that's hardly going to be noticeable since the difference in damage isn't great. And even if it was noticeable, I'd much rather deal say, 3 times the damage at anything from medium range on than deal 1.33 times the damage when closer than 5 m or so.

 

You make it sound like better accuracy provided by HM would double the DPS of Claymore GI. Accuracy is important, but it's not that important.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by distance not being a factor, because accuracy is all about distance. If both GI and AIU are using smart choke, then AIU shooting from distance L has similar spread as GI shooting from distance 2L.

 

That's certainly a huge advantage for GI in situations in which accuracy is the limiting factor in their killing speed, but in closer rangers both kits kill one mook with one shot and there GI wins more because of faster ROF than better accuracy.

 

Also, the actual efficiency loss from distance is much more linear than quadratic, partly because Claymore doesn't have even spread and partly because most enemies are much taller than they are wide. I don't think GI landing four times as many pellets as AIU is all that likely.

 

Of course accuracy is also a factor when killing bosses. Banshees and Primes have relatively thin frames and small heads, Brutes have small heads and Atlases have specific points where you want to hit for maximum efficiency.

[PatrickBateman]

Asari vanguard with the Graal, I'm really enjoying those head shots,

 

Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why.....

[Alfonsedode]

The last rank of cloak doesn't provide accuracy bonuses, does it? Then it doesn't really count for this reasoning, I'm merely computing the average amount of bullets hitting the target. Then if those pellets do more damage, is a whole other story.

Still, we're talking about 4 times as many pellets here, likely. That means that each pellet should do 4 times as much damage to offset the accuracy issue. That just isn't the case. And even if it was, I'd still prefer hitting with 4 times as many pellets that deal 1/4th of the damage than the other way around, cause I'd lose less damage to shield gate. Armor mitigation, on the other hand, isn't usually a big factor because of AP ammo.

The distance also isn't a factor, as nothing in the computations depend on it. Except of course that if one is doing more damage per pellet, there is a threshold of distance needed for a fair comparison, as anywhere closer than that will result in both hitting with enough pellets for the most damaging one to outdamage the other, even if the other hits with all of its pellets.

In practice, that's hardly going to be noticeable since the difference in damage isn't great. And even if it was noticeable, I'd much rather deal say, 3 times the damage at anything from medium range on than deal 1.33 times the damage when closer than 5 m or so.

 

 

You make it sound like better accuracy provided by HM would double the DPS of Claymore GI. Accuracy is important, but it's not that important.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by distance not being a factor, because accuracy is all about distance. If both GI and AIU are using smart choke, then AIU shooting from distance L has similar spread as GI shooting from distance 2L.

 

That's certainly a huge advantage for GI in situations in which accuracy is the limiting factor in their killing speed, but in closer rangers both kits kill one mook with one shot and there GI wins more because of faster ROF than better accuracy.

 

Also, the actual efficiency loss from distance is much more linear than quadratic, partly because Claymore doesn't have even spread and partly because most enemies are much taller than they are wide. I don't think GI landing four times as many pellets as AIU is all that likely.

 

Of course accuracy is also a factor when killing bosses. Banshees and Primes have relatively thin frames and small heads, Brutes have small heads and Atlases have specific points where you want to hit for maximum efficiency.

U both quite cover the subject here.

One quick question: u sure 25% accuracy boost from HM gives a twice smaller spread ? or as you said Deerber, the same spread twice longer ?

[LemurFromTheId]

U both quite cover the subject here.

One quick question: u sure 25% accuracy boost from HM gives a twice smaller spread ? or as you said Deerber, the same spread twice longer ?

 

Yes, if you already have the 50% boost from smart choke. I've tested this exact case before, and all the shooting tests I've done seem to indicate that a weapon's spread angle is simply multiplied by 1 - accuracy, which also explains the effects of accuracy > 100%.

[TheTechnoTurian]

Putting suppressor on my fat turian soldier

 

Big fat turian juxtaposed with a tiny gun that packs a huge punch is delightful so long as it is not extended to some kind of weird clawhammer metaphor. 

[PatrickBateman]

I like the Suppressor also on the TGI, makes him feel like James Bond - but better.

 

Sneaking up on his target and shooting them in the head.

[Cryos_Feron]

Claymore GI >>> Claymore AIU

 

AIU's SF + Claymore deals slightly more damage than GI's PM + Claymore, but GI's ROF bonus still gives it better DPS and enables GI to kill mooks faster. And then there's the accuracy bonus... if you think it's small beans, you're wrong; accuracy matters way beyond smart choke.

 

forget what I said about GI and EDI

 

today I put the Raider on the GI and ... this was just ridiculous.

 

In the last game I scored twice as high as the second who actually is a pretty good player

and believe me: My skills weren't the reason

 

 

The GI accuracy changes the Raider entirely - it negates its great downside completely.

 

as to the speed: the double-BOOM is so fast that I even got the feeling it might not get the cloak bonus

because you shoot before the cloak sound ;-)  

The fast reloading lets you run into a group of enemies who are not able to react (mostly still staggered by your PM)

 

I would recommend a stabilization III  -  it is not absolutely necessary but it lets you aim for the head with both shots.

and it feels even more accurate then. 

[Deerber]

forget what I said about GI and EDI

 

today I put the Raider on the GI and ... this was just ridiculous.

 

In the last game I scored twice as high as the second who actually is a pretty good player

and believe me: My skills weren't the reason

 

 

The GI accuracy changes the Raider entirely - it negates its great downside completely.

 

as to the speed: the double-BOOM is so fast that I even got the feeling it might not get the cloak bonus

because you shoot before the cloak sound ;-)  

The fast reloading lets you run into a group of enemies who are not able to react (mostly still staggered by your PM)

 

I would recommend a stabilization III  -  it is not absolutely necessary but it lets you aim for the head with both shots.

and it feels even more accurate then. 

 

Yeah, a GI raider is pretty ludicrous. If you wanna go even further down the road of "let's turn a gun into something else", put the Raider on a Tsol or a Quarksman. Enjoy sniping Phantoms across London with your scopeless, shieldgate-ignoring, laser-like accurate dispenser of death. It's pretty awesome

 

Edit: also, it appears I missed Aedolon's response. I will get around to reply, eventually, man... Maybe XD

[Urizen]

Oh yeah, I luv my Raider TSol. But playing him makes me always feel a lil´ dirty, because of him being so OP. I wonder what he feels like with a Claymoar

[TheTechnoTurian]

Oh yeah, I luv my Raider TSol. But playing him makes me always feel a lil´ dirty, because of him being so OP. I wonder what he feels like with a Claymoar

 

He always feels Good because he's a turian and they are nice regardless of weapon, but after having felt both turians claymoar turian doesn't feel as good as Raider Turian Soldier in my experience 

[Cryos_Feron]

Yeah, a GI raider is pretty ludicrous. If you wanna go even further down the road of "let's turn a gun into something else", put the Raider on a Tsol or a Quarksman. Enjoy sniping Phantoms across London with your scopeless, shieldgate-ignoring, laser-like accurate dispenser of death. It's pretty awesome

 

Edit: also, it appears I missed Aedolon's response. I will get around to reply, eventually, man... Maybe XD

 

I've never tried any character that has no dodge (except for the Juggy - who would actually look like a ballerina if he could "combat-roll")

 

but I think after so many hours played, it is about time to try these sluggish snails.

[Urizen]

He always feels Good because he's a turian and they are nice regardless of weapon, but after having felt both turians claymoar turian doesn't feel as good as Raider Turian Soldier in my experience 

 

After testing him out with a Claymoar, I wholeheartily agree with this statement.

[BloodBeforeTears]

Happy to hear all the talk about the Raider. That shotgun is one of the many reasons I still play this game - so much fun.