18 réponses à ce sujet

[Bogdanov89]

Can anyone please suggest mods/addons that notably improve ranged weapons combat in NWN?

 

 

Primarily i am looking for changes similar to these:

 

1. Most (or all) ranged (both projectile and thrown) weapons automatically Mighty up to the character's (total) strength modifier.

 

2. Possibly a feat that makes ranged weapons (both projectile and thrown) use Strength instead of Dexterity for attack rolls (similar to Zen Archery, but for Strength instead of Wisdom).

 

3. Specific feats/bonuses, like Weapon Master feats and the various epic Barbarian Rages, fully working with all ranged weapons.

 

4. Allowing all ranged weapons to have proper + Enhancement bonuses, that gives both Attack and Damage and help you to overcome enemies damage reduction.

 

 

Personally i never understood why ranged combat is so poorly developed in NWN.

Compared to melee combat, using ranged weapons feels very weak - usually relying on stuff like Arcane Archer or Ranger's Bane to make it even remotely worth playing with ranged weapons.

 

If you fellas know of addons/mods that greatly improve how ranged combat works/scales in NWN, please do suggest them

[Shadooow]

Can anyone please suggest mods/addons that notably improve ranged weapons combat in NWN?

 

 

4. Allowing all ranged weapons to have proper + Enhancement bonuses, that gives both Attack and Damage and help you to overcome enemies damage reduction.

 

 

Personally i never understood why ranged combat is so poorly developed in NWN.

Compared to melee combat, using ranged weapons feels very weak - usually relying on stuff like Arcane Archer or Ranger's Bane to make it even remotely worth playing with ranged weapons.

 

If you fellas know of addons/mods that greatly improve how ranged combat works/scales in NWN, please do suggest them

I dont think that there is/was any mod that would adressed 1-3.

 

as for 4. CPP allows to place enhancement property on ranged weapons but there is no ranged weapon with this available from balance reasons. Its just an additional feature for module builders.

 

At any way, I think you are not understanding several mechanic aspects with ranged weapons.

 

1. The attack bonus does overcome damage reduction. (That applies for gloves as well).

 

2. Darts and throwing axes are automatically mighty up to character's strenght bonus.

 

3. Ranged weapons are not expected to be primary weapon that you use even in close combat. The advantage is that it allows to to initiate the combat first with a surprise bonuses. While the enemy is running towards you, you have usually 2 rounds advantage. But at the moment he reaches you, you should switch to melee weapon.

 

So, yes, the ranged weapons, especially throwing weapons are very poor and underated unless character is high level AA or ranger or fully buffed cleric, but I wonder how that can be issue in original campaign that I know you are playing when this becomes and issue past 20level imo. Till 20 level things are quite well balanced actually...

[MagicalMaster]

The main problem is most things like you're discussing would need to be implemented by a module's author -- I have systems similar to these in MY modules, but that doesn't help you in the original campaign.  You'd probably have to open the toolset yourself...though I may have an idea for a weird workaround.

 

1. This can be done via a script, the trick is getting it to trigger in ANY module versus a module that specifically has it incorporated.

 

2. Actually doing this would be extremely difficult, though it would be possible to script a psuedo workaround that lets you use your strength modifier with ranged weapons.  However, it would run into problems at higher magic levels and seems like it might be a bit overpowered.

 

3. This is way beyond anything that can be reasonably done.  WM equivalent for archers is AA.

 

4. The attack bonus already overcomes reduction and things like Arrows +5 serve as the damage "half" of the enhancement.

 

3. Ranged weapons are not expected to be primary weapon that you use even in close combat. The advantage is that it allows to to initiate the combat first with a surprise bonuses. While the enemy is running towards you, you have usually 2 rounds advantage. But at the moment he reaches you, you should switch to melee weapon.

Going to disagree with these -- as an AA, a rogue/assassin/blackguard, or a cleric a ranged weapon can easily always be the weapon of choice.  In close combat you then gain another 1 AB and damage from Point Blank Shot (and Mobility helps you avoid the Attack of Opportunity).

But yes, by default, without additional systems archers tend to be very weak without AA bonuses, sneak attack, or cleric buffs (and cleric buffs work even better in melee).

[Elhanan]

Am Techless, so I cannot help with file adjustments, but utilizing the Pretty Good Character Creator/ Customizer (ie; PGC3) mod, one could craft bows and equipment that could give you what you want for the mods.

[Grani]

This is a good question.
Indeed, we certainly could benefit from improved ranged weapons. MagicalMaster, you said that you have a system for this in your module, right? Would you be so kind to share it?
And does it cater only to bow and crossbow wielders or does it enhance other ranged weapons as well?

[NWN_baba yaga]

Ranged combat is also in my interest that someone has an AI that enhances it. I mean there are active combat feats for them like (hope i am right here) rapid shot, rapid reload or point blank etc. I dont even know if they use these feats during combat which would be the minimum intelligence for any individuall who uses a ranged weapon and can USE it better as a stupid peasant!

 

Well what else can be improved...let me think. Heh, the use of active combat feats would be enough for me right now!

[Shadooow]

Ranged combat is also in my interest that someone has an AI that enhances it. I mean there are active combat feats for them like (hope i am right here) rapid shot, rapid reload or point blank etc. I dont even know if they use these feats during combat which would be the minimum intelligence for any individuall who uses a ranged weapon and can USE it better as a stupid peasant!

 

Well what else can be improved...let me think. Heh, the use of active combat feats would be enough for me right now!

afaik standard AI does use all these feats...

[Grani]

Are these feats hardcoded? If they aren't (not veru likely), then the easiest and simplest way of improving ranged combat would be to modify and enhance these.

[Grani]

Are these feats hardcoded? If they aren't (not veru likely), then the easiest and simplest way of improving ranged combat would be to modify and enhance these.

[MagicalMaster]

This is a good question.
Indeed, we certainly could benefit from improved ranged weapons. MagicalMaster, you said that you have a system for this in your module, right? Would you be so kind to share it?
And does it cater only to bow and crossbow wielders or does it enhance other ranged weapons as well?

 

Well, I actually have a few systems set up usually.

 

1, I usually add the Dex modifier to damage.

2, I increase the damage on ammunition and make bolts/arrows do more bonus damage than bullets/darts/throwing axes/shurikens.

3, I give unlimited ammunition -- I don't think it makes sense for ranged weapon users to constantly have to buy very expensive ammunition.  However, there are restrictions to prevent people to selling the ammo or trading them to share.

 

None of these systems are particularly complicated but I'm not sure how to integrate them easily into a given module.

 

Are these feats hardcoded? If they aren't (not veru likely), then the easiest and simplest way of improving ranged combat would be to modify and enhance these.

 

They are.  Point Blank Shot is more than powerful enough already and so is Rapid Shot without Haste.  Rapid Reload is simply a feat to make crossbows not suck once you have 2+ attacks per round, though.

[Grani]

Frankly, bows and crossbows are fine most of the time, but slings and pretty much all thrown weapons are rather useless.

A pity, a shuriken wielding ninja is a lovely concept.

[Shadooow]

Are these feats hardcoded? If they aren't (not veru likely), then the easiest and simplest way of improving ranged combat would be to modify and enhance these.

hardcoded

 

anyway, I could share some hints from Arkhalia PW - its a czech language epic action loot PW and ranged characters are highly useful there and for example the zen cleric (32/6/2) is most played class there.

 

Thats all because Ive heavily improved ranged weapons. Since CPP is installed on this server, we was able to add these properties on ranged weapons:

- keen

- damage bonus

- enhancement bonus

+ custom edit to allow onhit properties which is scripted to transfer onto ammunitions (as the onhit property doesnt work on bow)

Now since we had socket and gem system that allowed us to make a socketable bows/crossbows where player can add a damage gems, also we have a items called shadow amulets and these amulets contain itemproperties that can be copied into any item - which allowed to use Keen Shadow Amulet with ranged weapons. There are also other shadow amulets that all can be added into ranged weapons:

- mighty +5 / +10 / +15 / +20

- vorpal

- vampiric

- +1 ability

- +1 skill

- elemental damage resistance

 

So for example my character has this bow:

+7 attack (only original property)

1k12 magical

1k10 negative

1k12 electrical

1k12 fire

+3 vampiric

+10 mighty

keen

+1 str, dex, con, int

+1 lore, spellcraft, concentration

15/fire, 10/cold, 5/electrical

vorpal DC 26

 

that ain't that bad right?

 

and thats not all, I made also a custom unlimited ammunition which is a miscelanious item that generates stacks of arrows +0/+1/+2/+3/+4/+5 - I own +5 of course. This is transferable into any other bow and allow to place custom ammunition (such as arrows with OnHit: petrify etc.) into ammunition slot which normal unlimited ammunition doesn't allow. The side effect is that the generator had to be used again when you run out of ammo but I made a custom container that looks like a quiver and that has OnHitCastSpell: Unique Power (again CPP feature) property which automatically transfer all arrows from inventory inside. In fact, the unlimited ammo generator will automatically generate arrows into these quivers if character has them.

 

I made even a support for throwing weapons but they are in all respects worse than bow/crossbow so not many players uses them, but what I did is a that I made throwing weapons as a generator item. This generator accepts shadow amulets and gems (the generator can be socketed) and when used the generator will create a stack of 50 throwing weapons and copy all properties of the generator on them. Also, there is a new property called Double Stack (vanilla property just nonfunctional) that can be granted in shadow amulet again and when placed into this throwing weapon generator, the generator will create a fifty more in stack (can be added multiple times). But as I said they are worse compared to crossbow with same build (cleric rdd ranged devastater).

[Grani]

That's nice, Shadooow, thougjh I've been thinking about some modifications to game mechanics rather than to weapons itself. I feel that this is like curing a disease instead of preventing it, and suh a solution would not work in the module I'm working on, since player with high Craft Weapon skill will be able to craft a bow as good as an axe - so there is no point in making in-game bows better than in-game axes if someone can just create a high level axe and a high level bow and the bow will still be inferior.
Plus I plan on giving thrown wrapons some love, too, so I guess I will have to think of another solution

[Shadooow]

That's nice, Shadooow, thougjh I've been thinking about some modifications to game mechanics rather than to weapons itself. I feel that this is like curing a disease instead of preventing it, and suh a solution would not work in the module I'm working on, since player with high Craft Weapon skill will be able to craft a bow as good as an axe - so there is no point in making in-game bows better than in-game axes if someone can just create a high level axe and a high level bow and the bow will still be inferior.
Plus I plan on giving thrown wrapons some love, too, so I guess I will have to think of another solution

You are absolutely right - these are ideas for PW owners. Not something you can implant into single player module.

 

However, if you want to improve throwing weapons, there is an easy way - simply modify baseitems.2da where you can increase critical multiplier, critical threat range, base weapon damage.

[Grani]

Great! I thought that damage, threat range and multiplier of specific weapon types are hardcoded. That makes things a lot easier, great.

That makes me wonder, though. If it's that simple to change, why did you bother with making ranged weapons useful by modifying weapons themselves and going through this unlimited ammo system instead of changing these base parameters like this?

[Shadooow]

Great! I thought that damage, threat range and multiplier of specific weapon types are hardcoded. That makes things a lot easier, great.

That makes me wonder, though. If it's that simple to change, why did you bother with making ranged weapons useful by modifying weapons themselves and going through this unlimited ammo system instead of changing these base parameters like this?

mainly because changing this is a house rule which I am trying to avoid, but the features I added were neccessary for the Arkhalia PW anyway. Point is that the melee characters could add all these gems, vampiric onhit, vorpal onhit, keen to their weapons but ranged weapon characters didnt. I simply united the situation. And the vanilla unlimited ammo has several aspects that didn't fit to this PW. This world is about looting so I needed to make more items the character could use and need. With the custom unlimited ammo which is not an itemproperty player usually want around six of those smart quiver containers and can use custom ammunition that can be found in loot such as arrows of dispel.

[Lazarus Magni]

I have long wished ranged characters could use expertise. That certainly would help them since AC is an issue.

 

And shadooow is right, you can add many properties to bows (ect...) with CEP too that aren't default (e.g. keen.)

 

Regarding #2 doesn't the game automatically use str for attack rolls (ranged or otherwise), unless dex is higher and have weapon finesse (and is a finessable weapon), or wis is higher and have zen archery?

[WhiZard]

Regarding #2 doesn't the game automatically use str for attack rolls (ranged or otherwise), unless dex is higher and have weapon finesse (and is a finessable weapon), or wis is higher and have zen archery?

 

Nope, high strength builds get no benefit in ranged combat, besides the damage (for darts, throwing axes, and mighty ranged weapons).  There are quite a few high strength AA builds, but that is because the enchant arrow feats already give significant AB.

[Shadooow]

There are quite a few high strength AA builds, but that is because the enchant arrow feats already give significant AB.

Yea since ranged characters usually stay outside of melee range they usually dont need AC and since AA gives so many AB, it is better to take high strength even if only for devastating critical.