Aller au contenu

Photo

Romances


19659 réponses à ce sujet

#1
Allan Schumacher

Allan Schumacher
  • BioWare Employees
  • 7 640 messages

*
MESSAGE POPULAIRE !

Starting this up again since it'll inevitably come up again, and some people have had some time to hopefully cool down a bit.

 

First off some quick "ground rules"

 

  • Please do not taunt people who are disappointed because a romance option is not available to them.  No matter how much schadenfreude you may get, or how much you feel someone needs it because of whatever reason, lets not escalate things.

  • Please do not snark at people that are happy because they do get a romance option that they are looking forward to.  It tends to escalate things by causing the above point to happen, and makes the moderators and developers very sad pandas.  I don't like being a sad panda!

  • Report people that you feel are here to antagonize.  Try to not engage!

 

 

From there, there's been a lot of discussion about the potential for race/gender restrictions for characters, so prepare for wall o' text now!

 

Now since a few people said seeing an explanation post of mine helped, here's a link to that post, but I'll try to detail it out here again hopefully in a different way to hopefully help make things clearer.

 

 

Creating party interactions requires work in large part from writing as well as cinematics.  I'm glossing over some of the dependencies (localization, QA, etc) but I think people can wrap their heads around the writing and cutscene creation.

 

In breaking down all the writing and cinematic work requirements, certain aspects get certain amounts of budgets.  There's word budgets for the writers, and those get allocated in different ways.  Light/ambient content has less dependencies (no need to set up a magnificent stage and cutscene) so the "cost per word" there is less.  Cost in that "writers writing words here has less impact on the total amount of work for the cinematics guys."  There's also gold content, which is "we want this to hit all sorts of emotional beats, it's a big part of the core game experience and so forth."  Because of the nature of the work and how important we value it, words written here are "more expensive" because the downstream dependencies are higher.  And there are things in between.

 

I'm not quite sure precisely where romance content lies on this spectrum, but it does have aspects that make it higher.  And I'm not just talking about scenes of "sexy time" and whatnot.  It can be direct interactions as part of the "core romance" (whether it be kissing/hugging or other sorts of interaction between the PC and the LI).  There could also be scenes that occur in other places in the game where we have a bias to have your romance come up and talk as opposed to another character because we feel it's fitting.  Just trying to illustrate that it may not just be as simple as "well make it fade to black."  If your LI is distraught, for example, I think it's a better experience if your PC has the option to comfort them in a more appropriate way than just "I stand here and talk to you."

 

 

So knowing this, we can say "we think we can put about X zots towards content for the romance interests."  In part of determining how much total work we can allocate, we'll look at how efficient the writing team can be at creating words (and dealing with iteration based upon rewrites that will happen based on feedback from the team and so forth).  We'll also look at how quickly the cinematics team can be at creating scenes.  Now, while I am (unfortunately) not as equipped to deal with the challenges the writers have had (I did a bit of support work, but usually through a fellow QA that worked more closely with them directly), I was working very closely with the programming team that was building and supporting the tools for the cinematics guys.

 

Part of the challenge is that with new technology, at the start we have to make estimates on the efficiency of cinematics because they're literally not able to create the content to shippable quality early in the project.  So there's risks with these estimates (we try to be conservative), and there could be unexpected things that pop up (this affects the writers and their tools as well).  Cinematics (and to some extent writing) are a significant dependency on other things such as character races, because content that shows well for a human may not work as well for a qunari.

 

 

So when the writers come up and say "we think this person would make an interesting romance arc," we'll have to look at how that impacts the cinematics work schedule.  Lets assume we started with the realization we would need at least 4 LIs (since the team values providing choice, and we can do that with 4 characters).  But writing goes "We have some interesting ideas for romances, and we also think there's value added in representation."  Cinematics lets them know if they can handle this (like with, for example, a year long time extension)  But in the throes of writing, some other characters come along and it's "I think this person would make a really interesting romance arc actually."  Cinematics is consulted and goes "Hmmmm, this could be challenging...."  So now we can look at it and go "Okay Cinematics is at capacity, but writing can make this work.  Can we move shift around their existing work to make this work?"  Sometimes it's "yeah, we can make this work actually."  Or maybe it's "we only have the capacity to do half of the scenes."  Then we can look at the cost of the scenes specifically and see what we can do with that.  Maybe it means we take some scheduled scenes from other romances and allocate them here instead."

 

 

So I've gone on for a bit now, but this is what I am trying to point out when I say there will be less romances if we mandate that they're always bisexual so that people all have access to it.  This means that last step in the previous paragraph is now writing saying "We have a great idea for an excellent romance arc" but now cinematics says "we only have capacity to do half the scenes.  We can't do this for a bisexual romance."  Which means now that that romance arc doesn't make it into the final game because even though writing was able to write it (and all the localization and QA downstream could support it), the cinematics guys weren't able to support the content.  People that would like to romance that character now lose out.

 

 

Maaaaaaybe we can skirt around and make it minimalist, but I think that that is something that a fan goes "yeah yeah I'm okay with that" until they see it and compared to the other romances it's just not as developed.  And people will be upset about that because the content they were looking forward to isn't as good as the content other people enjoyed.

 

Hopefully that can help provide a bit better understanding, especially when I say that "making it so romance can only be bisexual likely means less romance options being available."

 

 

So it's getting late, so I have to stop.  But please feel free to continue romance discussion here, and please remain civil towards one another.

Thank you.


  • JobacNoor, Wynne, chrislynn et 80 autres aiment ceci

#2
Eveangaline

Eveangaline
  • Members
  • 5 990 messages

I think the last thread left off with euphemisms about how big Iron Bulls schlong would be.

 

Would it be crass to pick up there? Because even the tiniest size jokes make me giggle.


  • Feryx, VanishedFaces, IST et 3 autres aiment ceci

#3
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

No snark? On BSN? Tall order.

 

 

More seriously, I'll just point out that the considerations for bisexuality apply even more for different body-builds like the racial differences. IE, the concerns of racegating.



#4
Allan Schumacher

Allan Schumacher
  • BioWare Employees
  • 7 640 messages

Could you please elaborate? (it could just be that it's 3:30 AM, but I'm not sure what you're referring to)



#5
Knight of Dane

Knight of Dane
  • Members
  • 7 446 messages

Hai guise romanz be assum!



#6
Reznore57

Reznore57
  • Members
  • 6 100 messages

I don't understand anything about that whole cinematics /writing better without bisexual whatever. :wizard:

 

Anyway , about romances , I'm mostly waiting to see the companions in game.

I'm easily put off by details ,never romanced Anders/Merrill/Leliana/Zev , I liked them but they creeped me out too much .

I may play a forever alone Inquisitor , so I'm hoping the friendship are going to be great.

I wonder if some companions are going to romance each others.


  • Statare et Lebanese Dude aiment ceci

#7
Wulfram

Wulfram
  • Members
  • 18 938 messages

Could you please elaborate? (it could just be that it's 3:30 AM, but I'm not sure what you're referring to)

 

I think he's suggesting that from a cinematics point of view it would be as or more challenging to get them working for as divergently sized characters as qunari and dwarves as it would be to for men and women


  • Finnn62 aime ceci

#8
Chari

Chari
  • Members
  • 3 380 messages

There is a chart?

Oh my God, I so want to see it!

I'm both terrified and excited

Maybe I won't be able to romance someone I like, but I find it too interesting to be disappointed

I believe that Bioware will make all LIs really amazing


  • Karach_Blade, Gamerafls, Sunegami et 1 autre aiment ceci

#9
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

Could you please elaborate? (it could just be that it's 3:30 AM, but I'm not sure what you're referring to)

 

Me?

 

It's the same issue of fine-tuning the scenes and gestures (be they handshakes, embracing, even just looking at and orienting towards the player character's face and body) that you referenced that might serve as a restriction for the ability of creating a bisexual romance. It's not just bisexuality that could get a cut for restricted resources: it could just as well be the racial variety of the LI matchings.

 

With bisexuality, at least male and female models are (usually) the same or similar heights. Elves and Humans are especially close- the frames need the rebalancing and fine-tuning, but from my long-ago limited digital modeling experience on college, a significantly less degree than, say, a human and a dwarf.

 

 

You brought up the prospect of not being able to provide bisexuality because of limited resources for the modeling. The same can be applied to pan-racial interactions: instead of cutting out half the genders, cut out half the races.

 

 

(Which could enable some amusing choices. While elf and human, being the most similar and most common, are obvious candidates to group together on technical grounds... imagine a perverse dev team that created a human/elf LI who would ONLY go for the dwarf or Qunari? Or a female Dwarf who is sick and tired of every surface dwarf hitting on her because, hey, dwarfxdwarf, and so has developed a thing for tall?)



#10
Aolbain

Aolbain
  • Members
  • 1 206 messages
Wait, there was a round 2?
  • Finnn62 aime ceci

#11
TheodoricFriede

TheodoricFriede
  • Members
  • 5 046 messages

So in regards to race restrictions we are most certainly talking about issue with the cinematics then?

 

Because if thats the case, anyone playing a dwarf or a qunari are screwed.


  • Finnn62 aime ceci

#12
Little Princess Peach

Little Princess Peach
  • Members
  • 3 445 messages

I Personally never had a problem with romances if someone is unavailable to my pc's gender I finish that play through and role as my main pc's brother or cousin I find it adds more to the story, I like how Bioware gives us the chance to explore there games in different  ways.


  • Chari, Brialyn et Sunegami aiment ceci

#13
wright1978

wright1978
  • Members
  • 8 100 messages

Previously i'd always thought the cost of voiced lines was an impact, so it's interesting to hear of cinematic cost.

Still i'd prefer the less but all accessible approach.

Don't like the sounds of any of the gating in the slightest but hoping i can make do and mend with one workable romance once breakdown of availabilities breaks.


  • coldwetn0se aime ceci

#14
Lebanese Dude

Lebanese Dude
  • Members
  • 5 542 messages

I think the last thread left off with euphemisms about how big Iron Bulls schlong would be.
 
Would it be crass to pick up there? Because even the tiniest size jokes make me giggle.


Dat first post
  • Ehlesgens!, salzgurken, Sunegami et 1 autre aiment ceci

#15
Arachlia

Arachlia
  • Members
  • 115 messages

I don't understand anything about that whole cinematics /writing better without bisexual whatever. :wizard:

 

Anyway , about romances , I'm mostly waiting to see the companions in game.

I'm easily put off by details ,never romanced Anders/Merrill/Leliana/Zev , I liked them but they creeped me out too much .

I may play a forever alone Inquisitor , so I'm hoping the friendship are going to be great.

I wonder if some companions are going to romance each others.

I personally think it would be great if romances/relationships would be born among companions/other NPCs. Like there were in DA2, for example.

 

And since I plan to play multiple times anyway, I'll just see what romances are available for characters I plan and then try them out. Though I wonder which combination would be most ideal for "gonna catch 'em all" Inquisitor ;) I need to have at least one of that kind of playthrough. :D


  • Sunegami aime ceci

#16
AkiKishi

AkiKishi
  • Members
  • 10 898 messages

Dat first post

 

I'd rather be a brine shrimp although IB would need his mercenery company just to.... oh it all makes sense now !



#17
AkiKishi

AkiKishi
  • Members
  • 10 898 messages

I don't understand anything about that whole cinematics /writing better without bisexual whatever. :wizard:

 

Anyway , about romances , I'm mostly waiting to see the companions in game.

I'm easily put off by details ,never romanced Anders/Merrill/Leliana/Zev , I liked them but they creeped me out too much .

I may play a forever alone Inquisitor , so I'm hoping the friendship are going to be great.

I wonder if some companions are going to romance each others.

 

In the end technical consideration > anything else. 



#18
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

So in regards to race restrictions we are most certainly talking about issue with the cinematics then?

 

Because if thats the case, anyone playing a dwarf or a qunari are screwed.

 

Only if human and elf is available to everyone. It would be pretty easy to give reasons why a LI isn't interested in one or the other or both. Past trauma, ideological abhorence, or even just fetish and taste. Say Scribbles, the city-elf scribe, is tired of being accosted by humans and city elves she' had to put up with all her life, and so is cold towards them but open to a Qunari or Dwarf. The technical savings are preserved, but not at the cost of a dwarf or qunari player.

 

There also remains the question of how common race-gating would actually be. It doesn't need to be a uniform thing across all, or even most, of the companions, any more than gender-gating or decision-gating.



#19
TheodoricFriede

TheodoricFriede
  • Members
  • 5 046 messages

 

 

There also remains the question of how common race-gating would actually be. It doesn't need to be a uniform thing across all, or even most, of the companions, any more than gender-gating or decision-gating.

I am not optimistic.


  • wright1978 et HuldraDancer aiment ceci

#20
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

In the end technical consideration > anything else. 

 

Kind of like the military and logistics. If you don't have the resources to do it, it ain't happening. No matter how much you think it would be better.

 

Now, that doesn't mean all aspects of the romances are going to be restricted on grounds of technical consideration. There can be other, even more important, reasons. A non-bisexual but outright homosexual LI can be a significant validator of recognition and/or acceptance for homosexual gamers. A particular LI's story and character may justify a racegate: whether as part of a character flaw, traumatic past, both, or something else. And then there could be the last candidate resource shortage: the devs have all the romances as they intended and desired, and have some resources they don't want to use to change the existing romances but couldn't create a 'full' romance with. In that case, only the last LI is being limited in terms of a resource shortage.

 

There are lots of different reasonings why a romance could be restricted to varying degrees.



#21
Dean_the_Young

Dean_the_Young
  • Members
  • 20 675 messages

I am not optimistic.

 

Sure. I'm a professional cynic. It means I prepare for the worst, not that I go out looking to make myself miserable and hopeless when I have no reason to believe the worst is actually likely.


  • Thomas Andresen aime ceci

#22
Reznore57

Reznore57
  • Members
  • 6 100 messages

In the end technical consideration > anything else. 

 

Still I don't understand how the new system is more cost efficient than the DA2 one.

We get more LI , in theory , if you play the game with different characters.

If you don't replay the game , and most player don't , I'm not sure players will get more options in the end.

 

If it's about the Qunari/dwarves ...I don't know , more talking , sitting or lying in a bed and less kissing , hugging etc would have worked no?

Instead of probably limiting the romance option for the players who choose those races.



#23
thats1evildude

thats1evildude
  • Members
  • 10 974 messages

Did anyone else hear the thread title in the Street Fighter announcer's voice?

 

Spoiler

 

If it helps, imagine Guile's theme playing in the background.


  • Sunegami aime ceci

#24
Darth Krytie

Darth Krytie
  • Members
  • 2 128 messages

I have the urge to come in here and say: don't be hasty. It's probably not nearly as dire as some people imagine it to be.


  • Thomas Andresen, SniperWolfMandy, Moirin et 6 autres aiment ceci

#25
AkiKishi

AkiKishi
  • Members
  • 10 898 messages

Still I don't understand how the new system is more cost efficient than the DA2 one.

We get more LI , in theory , if you play the game with different characters.

If you don't replay the game , and most player don't , I'm not sure players will get more options in the end.

 

If it's about the Qunari/dwarves ...I don't know , more talking , sitting or lying in a bed and less kissing , hugging etc would have worked no?

Instead of probably limiting the romance option for the players who choose those races.

 

If you went purely based on what most players do, games would not have endings. Most players never see them. According to the PS3 trophy state % only 72.8% of players reached Ostigar.