19658 réponses à ce sujet

[SnakeCode]

Heavily disagree that it deserves the Fox News treatment, but fine. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

Having said that let's try to remember that "I am offended" isn't the same as "this is inherently offensive."

[pallascedar]

Thank you.

 

Relevant post by Gaider;

 

 

 

 

 

This is, in my opinion, a rather judgmental view of it. I'm very quick to argue that there are more important things in a relationship than physical attraction, but I'm not going to deny that it's often the first thing that, well, attracts you to someone.

 

I think there's an understanding that any companion bioware produces is going to have some depth to them. I think Bioware has earned that understanding by writing some of the most indepth characters in gaming. So I don't think it's unreasonable for it to be an unspoken understanding that were there to be a female qunari on the team, she'd be a character with some depth and personality. 

 

I'm also not overly judgmental towards those who want one companion as an LI over the other options based on looks.

 

Just gonna add my two cents to what I think this meant... I think it's less that the writers don't want to write a Qunari romance because people might fetishize it and more that they aren't going to write a romance solely because a subset of people find that particular character model attractive. The same goes for any race, they aren't gonna add a dwarf romance just because "Hey, some people like dwarves!". If they add a dwarf romance it will be because they developed a dwarven character that they think will make a good romance.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Heavily disagree that it deserves the Fox News treatment, but fine. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

Having said that let's try to remember that "I am offended" isn't the same as "this is inherently offensive."

When enough people are offended by it, like many are, then yes it is the latter. Even the writer of the books doesn't like what the games did iirc. 

 

Now I'm done.

[HuldraDancer]

Because dwarves and qunari are too niche/weird. Elves are the traditionally beautiful race.

Racial fetishization is gross when applied to anybody, but some fetishes are considered more acceptable than others in the eyes of society.

 

In DAO elves were just humans with pointy ears, dwarves were just short humans, and qunaris were just tall bronze humans though, and if we go by DA2 elves looked the most alien to me but then again they had a big Avatar vibe to them and I know a lot of guys that wanted to sleep with one of those. Just seems odd to me still I don't see anything odd about dwarves, qunari I could maybe get but aside from height dwarves don't look very different from humans just shorter. 

[The Elder King]

I agree it's pretty stupid to have one character partially clothed while the other isn't, but it still doesn't change the fact that nothing is really shown. And Tbf (iirc) Geralt is naked in some of the scenes.
 
I'm not seeing how the camera angles were particularly stupid, and i'm not buying the whole moaning thing. That isn't exclusive to pornography, some people IRL make a lot of noise, and some don't.
 
I just feel that the Witcher games kind of get the ME1 Fox News treatment on these boards. Many people write it off as a misgynistic sex simulator without having ever played the games.

I played it. I loved TW2. Still didn't like most of the sex scenes. Though I generally don't like sex scenes in games.

 
But fine, see it as tasteful. I can't change your opinion. Meanwhile I'll still see it as one of the biggest insults to everything romance-related in gaming. Now let's stop talking about it. I'm getting ill just thinking about it.

To be fair, the relationships with the women that lead to sex scenes weren't really about romances with the exception of Triss and possibly Ves.

[Samahl]

Just gonna add my two cents to what I think this meant... I think it's less that the writers don't want to write a Qunari romance because people might fetishize it and more that they aren't going to write a romance solely because a subset of people find that particular character model attractive. The same goes for any race, they aren't gonna add a dwarf romance just because "Hey, some people like dwarves!". If they add a dwarf romance it will be because they developed a dwarven character that they think will make a good romance.

It's not coincidence that all the LIs so far have happened to be human/elf so far, though. I'm pretty sure BioWare didn't expect many people to find dwarves or qunari attractive and/or interesting enough to warrant taking up more than one slot in any given party.

[SnakeCode]

When enough people are offended by it, like many are, then yes it is the latter. Even the writer of the books doesn't like what the games did iirc. 

 

Now I'm done.

Wrong, there isn't some invisible tally where if enough people are offended by something it becomes inherently offensive. For starters, how many people is enough?

 

To use your own logic, the fact that there are many that aren't offended by it proves that it isn't inherently offensive.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Wrong, there isn't some invisible tally where if enough people are offended by something it becomes inherently offensive. For starters, how many people is enough?

 

To use your own logic, the fact that there are many that aren't offended by it proves that it isn't inherently offensive.

Really, so if not enough black people found the n word offensive and enough non-black people found it was not offensive, it wouldn't be? 

[SnakeCode]

I played it. I loved TW2. Still didn't like most of the sex scenes. Though I generally don't like sex scenes in games. To be fair, the relationships with the women that lead to sex scenes weren't really about romances with the exception of Triss and possibly Ves.

I myself am mot a big fan of sex scenes. But as sex scenes go, I thought they were handled relatively well in TW2.

 

I was responding to a post equating them with pornography, which I strongly disagree with.

[SnakeCode]

Really, so if not enough black people found the n word offensive and enough non-black people found it was not offensive, it wouldn't be? 

Considering the N word was designed to be offensive when used, I don't see how it's the same thing.

 

My point was that if all it takes for something to be offensive is for some people being offended, then everything on the planet is inherently offensive.

[Samahl]

Really, so if not enough black people found the n word offensive and enough non-black people found it was not offensive, it wouldn't be? 

It's not offensive because black people find it offensive, it's offensive because the word has a historical precedent of degrading and dehumanizing them. I haven't played TW, so I don't know about the specific things you're referring to, but if it's truly offensive, you should be able to make a case for it being so regardless of the number of people who find it offensive.

[fiveforchaos]

Heavily disagree that it deserves the Fox News treatment, but fine. Let's just agree to disagree.

 

Having said that let's try to remember that "I am offended" isn't the same as "this is inherently offensive."

Witcher was more "I can tell this was made for a particular audience, and I'm not a part of that audience." I play it because it's fun, but I don't find it as fun as someone who came from that target demographic might. It sucks because every other aspect of Witcher has my name all over it, but those sex scenes are enough to subtract somewhat from the experience.

 

Now I'm not saying I'll be turned off from a game if I can't play a woman, nor will I really be turned off if my character has sex with a woman. But the way they went about it, made it kinda of a turn off.

[daholyone11]

*

 

What's so funny? I think the witcher scenes are tasteful, and more adult like, unlike bioware romance scenes. 

 

Both Dragon age and the witcher series take place in adult-themed universes with strong narratives and violence. Sex is an adult theme, and the witcher developers know this.

[karushna5]

remember, there is a gulf between fetishizing and being attracted. Being fetishized is making someone an object of only sexual gratification. A fetish is something that turns you on outside someone as a person, you only care as long as they fit that form of your fetishization.

 

being attracted means yeah, they turn you on, but they are still people under it all.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

*

 

What's so funny? I think the witcher scenes are tasteful, and more adult like, unlike bioware romance scenes. 

 

Both Dragon age and the witcher series take place in adult-themed universes with strong narratives and violence. Sex is an adult theme, and the witcher developers know this.

Goodie for you. I find them untasteful(TW2) if not insulting(TW1) and find anyone saying they are tasteful humorous.

Regardless, this thread has already had this discussion. I'm not going to start it up again.

[Samahl]

remember, there is a gulf between fetishizing and being attracted. Being fetishized is making someone an object of only sexual gratification. A fetish is something that turns you on outside someone as a person, you only care as long as they fit that form of your fetishization.

 

being attracted means yeah, they turn you on, but they are still people under it all.

Thinking about it this way puts DG's response into perspective.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a nonstandard romance option, though. Female qunari are going to be bulkier on average than humans and elves, and dwarves are going to be shorter and stockier. People with similar body types to these two races exist irl, and not having them available as possible romances suggests something about societal beauty standards that's kind of depressing, tbh.

[AresKeith]

I like the Witcher series but those scenes were generic, bland, and meh lol

[fiveforchaos]

Thinking about it this way puts DG's response into perspective.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting a nonstandard romance option, though. Female qunari are going to be bulkier on average than humans and elves, and dwarves are going to be shorter and stockier. People with similar body types to these two races exist irl, and not having them available as possible romances suggests something about societal beauty standards that's kind of depressing, tbh.

This is pretty much my perspective on the matter. There's a wide range of different body types out there, and a wide range of people attracted to those different body types. I'm a short stubby girl in real life, that there are people who want to date girls "like me" (ie. Sigrun and Dagna) in their fantasy video games is a nice boost to self confidence. 

 

I personally want "a dwarf or qunari romance" in general because I'm attracted to faces with a lot of character, and dwarves and Qunari tend to have the more distinctive features that I tend to go for. I've never really thought of it as a "fetish" before, it's more of an emotional attraction than a sexual one. Just my personal preference, you know?

 

Of course if the character's personality doesn't interest me, no amount of good looks is going to make me want to romance them, but I guess with Bioware good character writing is kind of implied no?

[rapscallioness]

okay well I'm late to things, so apologies. but there were sum things i wanted to comment on:

 

The Qun qamek thing--to me it sounds eerily similar to making mages tranquil. mindless slaves. maybe indentured servants. it dao it always made me uncomfortable in the mage origin scene where a mage tells me that the Tranquils will bring up my luggage for me. whereas the mages aren't necessarily mindless---there is the idea that they need to be "cured". the whole thing gives me the willies.

 

And so, i didn't know it was the ben hassrath that were the ones that did the re educating. and IB is ben hassrath?

 

IB sending back reports: I'm actually all for that IF they are reports abt the friggin' demons spilling from the sky. Yes, tell them. Cuz if we can't manage to beat back these goons, it will consume all of thedas. if the qunari need to step up, it would be nice if they're up to speed.

 

But if IB is sending back reports abt how you can sneak around back way into our forts; or our weak spots---we're gonna have problems.

 

I think IB will be a challenging romance. He may not be willing to connect on an emotional level. Jumping into to bed is one thing, but that emotional connection, he may be resistant to cuz he is still of the qun. And that does not wipe away easy.

[daholyone11]

Goodie for you. I find them untasteful(TW2) if not insulting(TW1) and find anyone saying they are tasteful humorous.

Regardless, this thread has already had this discussion. I'm not going to start it up again.

 

Look at you, tallkin as if I need your approval.

 

I don't see how they're bad or insulting scenes. They are much sexier to watch than Bioware "sex scenes"

[Samahl]

Some people found it sexist, some people don't care. We have established this. There's no reason to continue this discussion.

[GVulture]

What is offensive about the Witcher romances was the collectible trading cards you got for sleeping with someone. Treating sex with multiple women as one of the "collectible mini-quests" is kinda gross. It also kinda encourages all kinds of sexist behavior that no one in their right mind would view sex as.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Look at you, tallkin as if I need your approval.

 

I don't see how they're bad or insulting scenes. They are much sexier to watch than Bioware "sex scenes"

When did I ever say you needed it?

 

And 'sexier' isn't the term I would use, but I don't want to keep this offtopic going so let's drop it shall we?