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Guest_Raga_*
Joan of Arc was burned as a heretic, though, not for being a woman directly.
Yea, but the fact that she was wearing men's clothes was used as evidence against her. And I'd argue that being female gave them additional fuel against her even if they mostly wanted to get rid of her for political reasons. Joan of Arc is famous because she is exceptional and not because she's a prime example of women in the Middle Ages. If she had been male I suspect only historians would even know who she was.
You forgot ideas about human rights and social justice that were virtually nonexistent until a few centuries ago
Very true. The whole conflict between the mages and the Templars wouldn't actually make much sense to your average Medieval person. The idea that humans are free and belong to themselves is something that didn't enter the European psyche in a big way until the Enlightenment. (And then it was in the form of 'white dudes that own property belong to themselves.' We are still trying to convince some people that it should apply to everybody ...)
Yea, but the fact that she was wearing men's clothes was used as evidence against her. And I'd argue that being female gave them additional fuel against her even if they mostly wanted to get rid of her for political reasons. Joan of Arc is famous because she is exceptional and not because she's a prime example of women in the Middle Ages. If she had been male I suspect only historians would even know who she was.
Yes- generally if the common populace knows a name from history, they were unique.
I really would have liked to see Awakening!Anders portrayed as openly bisexual back then, I realize that it probably wasn't even a thought when DA:A was being made, but it would have been nice to see another openly bisexual character who wasn't a rogue, and even the fact that he wasn't romanceable would have been cool, because his sexuality would have just been another facet of his character instead of being seen as a convenient feature in DA2.
As for defying gender norms, I personally feel like it's ONLY okay for female characters to be "masculine" or tough, generally, in modern media, if they're as straight as possible (like Ashley and Aveline, and I have a feeling that many people assume Cassandra will be the same way when they say she HAS to be heterosexual). Lesbians on television often are very, very feminine, and fall in love or into bed with men as much as possible (See: Irene Adler in BBC Sherlock, Margot Verner in Hannibal). I don't think that's a coincidence. Gay men are allowed to be "stereotypically" gay IF they're comic relief (see: Jack from Will and Grace, Mitchell and Cameron on Modern Family), but if the role is serious, a lot of times if a male character is homosexual, he's far more likely to be less coded as stereotypically gay (Cyrus on Scandal is probably a good example of this).
Basically, I would really just like to see some *relatable* gay and lesbian characters, instead of characters who are "just like everybody else." There's nothing wrong with the real people who are gay AND who align with popular stereotypes about what gay people are.
Well, I'm rooting for Cassandra to be bisexual. I'll also say that Dorian seems likely to fit your criteria; whether Sera will or not, I'm not sure, but she has the hair for it.
Sera doesn't seem like she's especially "feminine". OK, she's an elf and a rogue so she's not tough in the same way Aveline is, but seems like she would be in her own way.
Guest_Raga_*
At the end after the conflict ended she was burned at the stake, later on she was even sanctified by the church. The way she was received during a state of emergency (DA pretty much always is in one) was quite similar.
Yea, but Joan was sanctified a *long* time after her death (largely out of a sense of apology more than acknowledging her as some major prophet), and she didn't become *the* central figure of Catholicism. Andraste was sanctified at once - to the point that people claim her death instantaneously converted Hessarian and by extension the government of Tevinter. Andraste's death was reinterpreted into a moment of divine triumph in much the same way that Christ's was.
Add to this that in DA differences in strength are less useful in defining differences between genders when a female of one race can literally be bigger and stronger than a male of another.
Guest_Raga_*
Very true. The whole conflict between the mages and the Templars wouldn't actually make much sense to your average Medieval person. The idea that humans are free and belong to themselves is something that didn't enter the European psyche in a big way until the Enlightenment. (And then it was in the form of 'white dudes that own property belong to themselves.' We are still trying to convince some people that it should apply to everybody ...)
I'd argue it started with Humanism in the Renaissance and matured in Protestantism before the Enlightenment took it up, but this isn't really the place for a history debate.
Very true. The whole conflict between the mages and the Templars wouldn't actually make much sense to your average Medieval person. The idea that humans are free and belong to themselves is something that didn't enter the European psyche in a big way until the Enlightenment. (And then it was in the form of 'white dudes that own property belong to themselves.' We are still trying to convince some people that it should apply to everybody ...)
Really, the "white" part of that came into vogue as discrimination a bit later than we all suspect; for a pretty long time period, it wasn't as big a deal; there were white slaves and black slaves, white merchants and black merchants. Racism picked up when the church (ironically enough, the Inquisition) started trying to drive the "Maures" (or Moors) out of Europe.
Yea, but Joan was sanctified a *long* time after her death (largely out of a sense of apology more than acknowledging her as some major prophet), and she didn't become *the* central figure of Catholicism. Andraste was sanctified at once - to the point that people claim her death instantaneously converted Hessarian and by extension the government of Tevinter. Andraste's death was reinterpreted into a moment of divine triumph in much the same way that Christ's was.
Add to this that in DA differences in strength are less useful in defining differences between genders when a female of one race can literally be bigger and stronger than a male of another.
We "apologized" to Galileo within our lifetimes; that's more of a "the Church doesn't admit mistakes" point.
I can understand, if not necessarily agree with, people modding certain romance options if they have literally no other option, as was the case in ME1, but when there'll be no shortage of choice in DAI, I cannot get behind the notion of warping the plot around you in that manner. Though this might affect me emotionally more because of the existence of that longstanding notion that lesbians can be "cured" via hetero romance.
Really, the "white" part of that came into vogue as discrimination a bit later than we all suspect; for a pretty long time period, it wasn't as big a deal; there were white slaves and black slaves. Racism picked up when the church (ironically enough, the Inquisition) started trying to drive the "Maures" (or Moors) out of Europe.
As interesting as this debate about Medieval/Whateverthehell Europe is, I think all this is demonstrating is that European history is complicated, and Thedas is really nothing like it except how us, as Modern Humans imagine European history to have been.
#Thedasisnotmedievaleurope
I'd argue it started with Humanism in the Renaissance and matured in Protestantism before the Enlightenment took it up, but this isn't really the place for a history debate.
Speaking as someone who wrote her Honours thesis on Petrach and her (unfinished) Ph.D. on Ficino, I don't know that I'd agree with you there. But you're right, it's not the appropriate place to debate the subject 
.
Really, the "white" part of that came into vogue as discrimination a bit later than we all suspect; for a pretty long time period, it wasn't as big a deal; there were white slaves and black slaves. Racism picked up when the church (ironically enough, the Inquisition) started trying to drive the "Maures" (or Moors) out of Europe.
Yeah, skin-colour based racism was a late invention in Europe. It doesn't really become a universal ideal until the Transatlantic slave trade makes it expedient to believe that Africans aren't proper humans.
So, uh ... how about those romances?
In an attempt to drag us back on topic: what unavailable character(s) do you wish you could have romanced in previous games?
I understand this; especially the idea of unwanted advances from a straight person with some sense of entitlement or notion that they have the ability to "turn" someone. I also appreciate how this is more disturbing for gay women than men in general but I don't believe that men or women (straight or gay) that indulge in this fantasy in private are any more likely to try it in real life. While I certainly have no desire to see Sera with a man, I will not stand in the way of those that do want to create this fantasy for themselves. I'm a big fan of m/m fan art even though almost all the characters depicted are straight men. I can't deny anyone else that indulgence, especially when I don't have to witness it.
The issue is moot because neither of us can stand in the way of anyone trying it, I think.
Guest_Raga_*
We forgave Galileo within our lifetimes; that's more of a "the Church doesn't admit mistakes" point.
True enough. I still think Joan is a poor comparison to Andraste. I think a better question is "how would the world be different if Mohammed or Jesus or Moses had been women?"
In an attempt to drag us back on topic: what unavailable character(s) do you wish you could have romanced in previous games?
*sniff, sniff*
Duncan 
Carver (in terms of pure attraction on my part, not the incest)
Nathaniel Howe or DAA Anders
Alistair w/ Male Warden
*sniff, sniff*
Duncan
*snip*
Me too. Me too.
Guest_Raga_*
In an attempt to drag us back on topic: what unavailable character(s) do you wish you could have romanced in previous games?
Sorta/kinda Nathaniel Howe, but not seriously. The only character I have actively wanted as a romance who wasn't was Varric. I did sort of subconsciously want Garrus, but I was so skeptical of the possibility of this that I didn't even really bother wasting time thinking about it until it was revealed he *was* one. Then I had a sudden epiphany that I hadn't just been taking him everywhere because he's a good sniper.
I think a good example of a fictional homosexual character whose characterization definitely draws on real gay men is Felix Dawkins on Orphan Black. I don't think it's at all harmful or painful that Felix is artistic, has been known to wear leather chaps or kimonos on occasion, and has had lovers on the show...on the contrary, I think it's great that he can be shown this way AND be depicted as a loyal, smart and dedicated brother to Sarah, as well as to the other clones. They definitely could have made him into a grizzled, tough, manly man who just happens to be gay, but they didn't, and it's kind of refreshing.
I'm a huge Orphan Black fan and I love Felix the way he is, but his character is hardly groundbreaking. Having a "grizzled, tough, manly man" who just happens to be gay but also unapologetically acknowledges his sexuality and desires is something I'd like to see more of in all media, especially video games. I am gay but I am not weak, flighty or here for comic relief and I am no-one's sidekick.
There are just so few gay/queer characters in general in all media. While there are countless straight characters (especially straight white men) for some people to project images of themselves unto, gay/queer players are lucky if there is even a single gay/queer character in a cultural product that even reminds them of someone they've met.
In an attempt to drag us back on topic: what unavailable character(s) do you wish you could have romanced in previous games?
Varric.
Although I can see how he didn't think of Hawke "that way." I'd love to see him feel "that way" about my saarabas, though.
Guest_Raga_*
To be fair though, I'd argue that even white male protagonists tend to fit into only a handful of basic archetypes, the most common ones being "pretty boy/boy scout" Captain America type or "badass antihero" type. All of these are almost invariably physically strong, attractive to and able to gain the attention of women, leaders who never serve in any capacity except as tip of the spear, and a bunch of other masculine stereotypes. The fact that there are 1000 of them for every 1 gay character doesn't necessarily mean there is a whole lot more variety. In general, I think it's fair to say that media sucks in how it portrays gender and sexuality.
Nathaniel Howe is at the top of my 'what might have been?' list too, along with Sigrun. He has an especially interesting dynamic with a Cousland Warden. (I mean, mine was happily married to Alistair by the time she met him so nothing would have happened anyway. But in another universe I can certainly see that being an interesting romance.)
I didn't actually mind not being able to romance Varric in DA2 - it wasn't until we found out he was in the game and there was race selection that I went 'I MUST ROMANCE HIM WITH MY DWARFQUISITOR!!!' (Nothing against people wanting to pair him up with humans/elves/qunari, but that's my plan if it's possible. And if it isn't, my dwarf may just spend the whole 150 hours pining after him anyway.)
There are just so few gay/queer characters in general in all media. While there are countless straight characters (especially straight white men) for some people to project images of themselves unto, gay/queer players are lucky if there is even a single gay/queer character in a cultural product that even reminds them of someone they've met.
As I understand most media feel that the heterosexual, white, 18-35 male demographic are as middle-of-the-road as one can get. Everything they do, everyone else does. Everything they're interested in, so is everyone else. Base zero, lowest common denominator. Some groups confuse "lowest common denominator" with "only group that matters."
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