19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Your Shepard shouldn't, that's the magic of Bioware games every player's MC is different.

My Shepards are usually very pragmatic and don't give much of a **** about morality as long as they get the job done with the best possible outcome no matter the cost.

 

Er, that doesn't mean your Shepard shouldn't either. Just that your Shepard that pragmatism test if they considered 'want to bone' in that leadership decision.

 

While sex can be great stress relief, it's not really a part of a pragmatic leader's decision process.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Personally I thought Admiral Tali'Zorah was one of the stupidest pieces of of the Quarian plotline. About the only reason it wouldn't be considered nepotism is because Rael'Zorah is already dead. Talk about an undeserved promotion of naked politics: if you want to see why people scoff at the claim of the ME2 cast being qualified the Best of the Best, Tali's progress through the series is a great case study.

 

Yeah, I get it Bioware. You want Shepard to seem even more awesome by adding the awesome to everyone who serves in the presence of Shepard's awesomeness. Promotions and authority positions abound for Shepard's clique. When your main character is a company-grade officer in a sergeant's position, what's more awesome than an Admiral who will be a de facto private? Nothing. That's totally awesome.

 

You know what's just as awesome? When Garrus Goddamn Vakarian tells a General to be at ease after being saluted as a 'special adviser' and task force leader.

 

You know what was just as funny? When not one single Turian asked him to stay when Garrus upped and left and quit yet another job.

She knew the most about the Geth then anyone else and has fought them more than anyone else. She seems plenty qualified to be an admiral when they launch a war at the Geth. And it's not like she was leading ships like the other 4, but was more an adviser. 

[Dean_the_Young]

She knew the most about the Geth then anyone else and has fought them more than anyone else. She seems plenty qualified to be an admiral when they launch a war at the Geth. And it's not like she was leading ships like the other 4, but was more an adviser. 

That is a horrible argument for making someone an Admiral. Especially when Tali's unique expertise of the Geth is an informed, rather than demonstrated, ability with no relevant need to promote her that high. Especially since Xen already has the Geth expertise/cyberwarfare weapon covered. Tali left the Flotilla about three years before her promotion, and spent, what, a year and a half with Shepard? Good thing the Alarai was wiped out, then, or else the Quarians must be pretty ignorant about their foe.

 

There's a word for the role of someone who is needed as an adviser but not power, and that word is adviser.

 

I mean, seriously Bioware. You're going to make a girl with less than three years of military experience and (as far as we know) two failed/doomed missions salvaged by outsiders a senior military commander? And then defend it by claiming you're just giving rank, not authority? I'm not sure if that's better or worse than claiming she was the best of the best after a rather lackluster justification in ME1.

 

If Tali seems plenty qualified, it's only because by comparison the Quarians are depicted as idiots. Thus making Tali, the fan favorite and companion, the only sane one in the room.

[SurelyForth]

This is all very interesting, but can we keep general criticisms about ME out of the DA Romance Discussion?

[Dean_the_Young]

Ah, apologies. I let myself get a little off topic.

 

It all seemed so harmless...

 

 

Gah! Bad Dean!

 

 

Ahem. Romance talk.

 

I think it would be amusing if Bioware did a companion character/romance in which the companion does the most ridiculous, implausible thing of all: falls in love at first sight.

And then, knowing that it's silly and bad and unworthy, struggles to overcome and deal with that annoying persistent crush on the player character in a mature and respectful manner. While the player can play that in any number of ways.

[HuldraDancer]

I think it would be amusing if Bioware did a companion character/romance in which the companion does the most ridiculous, implausible thing of all: falls in love at first sight.

And then, knowing that it's silly and bad and unworthy, struggles to overcome and deal with that annoying persistent crush on the player character in a mature and respectful manner. While the player can play that in any number of ways.

That reminds me a lot of a game I do have only the person in question doesn't do anything much about it until you get to know them a lot better, it can actually work pretty well too. Which of the followers or advisers would be most likely to fall for the PC on first sight?

[Wulfram]

Ahem. Romance talk.

 

I think it would be amusing if Bioware did a companion character/romance in which the companion does the most ridiculous, implausible thing of all: falls in love at first sight.

And then, knowing that it's silly and bad and unworthy, struggles to overcome and deal with that annoying persistent crush on the player character in a mature and respectful manner. While the player can play that in any number of ways.

 

Tough to do that while the point of view is solely the PC, I think

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That reminds me a lot of a game I do have only the person in question doesn't do anything much about it until you get to know them a lot better, it can actually work pretty well too. Which of the followers or advisers would be most likely to fall for the PC on first sight?

Well, Gaider posted on the Scribbles thread that she was extremely loyal to the Inquisitor, so maybe that's fueled by a crush.

[In Exile]

Your Shepard shouldn't, that's the magic of Bioware games every player's MC is different.

My Shepards are usually very pragmatic and don't give much of a **** about morality as long as they get the job done with the best possible outcome no matter the cost.

ME1 is pretty adamant that Kaiden is more qualified than Ashley (even ignoring the rarity of a sane human biotic). 

[Dean_the_Young]

Tough to do that while the point of view is solely the PC, I think

 

Liara was coy, but persistent. You don't think Bioware could right a character arc of a companion who's outright struggling with a crush?

[In Exile]

Ah, apologies. I let myself get a little off topic.

 

It all seemed so harmless...

 

 

Gah! Bad Dean!

 

 

Ahem. Romance talk.

 

I think it would be amusing if Bioware did a companion character/romance in which the companion does the most ridiculous, implausible thing of all: falls in love at first sight.

And then, knowing that it's silly and bad and unworthy, struggles to overcome and deal with that annoying persistent crush on the player character in a mature and respectful manner. While the player can play that in any number of ways.

 

I'm a big fan of Bioware making a villain who falls in love at first sight with the Protagonist. It would solve a lot of their plot problems; (1) it helps to explain all of the obivous idiot ball moments when the villain leaves you alive instead of just shooting you in the head; (2) it can create hilarious tension when, say, you get captured with some NPC and he gets sent off to the dungeon, whereas you go off to the "dungeon", and (3) it gets everyone the yandere they've been talking about in this thread. 

[Dean_the_Young]

That reminds me a lot of a game I do have only the person in question doesn't do anything much about it until you get to know them a lot better, it can actually work pretty well too.

 

Which of the followers or advisers would be most likely to fall for the PC on first sight?

 

Likely? None of them. Would be most amusing? Ah, well...

 

I just don't see any of them as the crushing type.

[HuldraDancer]

Tough to do that while the point of view is solely the PC, I think

Visual cues and hints in dialog when the PC speaks to them would help a lot with that though that depends if the player would talk to them that much but I think it can be done. Maybe not so much as the internal struggle but them having the crush and trying to keep it professional could be I think.

 

Well, Gaider posted on the Scribbles thread that she was extremely loyal to the Inquisitor, so maybe that's fueled by a crush.

Could be I know little to nothing about the woman though to be honest but that seems like a good guess to me. (and really I think it'd be kind of adorable so long as they tread carefully and didn't take it into creepy places)

[Maferath]

Well, Gaider posted on the Scribbles thread that she was extremely loyal to the Inquisitor, so maybe that's fueled by a crush.

That post was a Monthy Python reference. I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously.

[HuldraDancer]

Likely? None of them. Would be most amusing? Ah, well...

 

I just don't see any of them as the crushing type.

Well you suggested it I was just trying to help Also I have no clue either hmm maybe Cullen? He seems easily impressed with mage women at least but I have no real guess either though it is kind of fun to think of our followers and advisers somewhat acting like little kids with a first crush

[Dean_the_Young]

I'm a big fan of Bioware making a villain who falls in love at first sight with the Protagonist. It would solve a lot of their plot problems; (1) it helps to explain all of the obivous idiot ball moments when the villain leaves you alive instead of just shooting you in the head; (2) it can create hilarious tension when, say, you get captured with some NPC and he gets sent off to the dungeon, whereas you go off to the "dungeon", and (3) it gets everyone the yandere they've been talking about in this thread. 

 

 

I laugh to think of an antagonist trying to keep villain cred while trying to deal with a raging crush.

 

Probably wouldn't fit too well in a 'fate of the world' context in which the antagonist is on the destroy the world side. But I could definitely see it if we were lower level struggle. Think the Dragon to a Corrupt Executive.

 

'I'm sorry, I can't let you see these incriminating documents. I could show you a nice restaurant with great food, though, if you're free this evening.'

[In Exile]

Well you suggested it I was just trying to help Also I have no clue either hmm maybe Cullen? He seems easily impressed with mage women at least but I have no real guess either though it is kind of fun to think of our followers and advisers somewhat acting like little kids with a first crush

 

Maybe this time around he channels a bit less of Edward "I watch you sleep" Cullen. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That post was a Monthy Python reference. I don't think it was meant to be taken seriously.

I know, but it is one of the few things we can speculate on in that thread: how much is true and how much is us being Gaidered.

[HuldraDancer]

Maybe this time around he channels a bit less of Edward "I watch you sleep" Cullen. 

 Never talked to him in DAO (couldn't remember to) but with a mage import in DA2 him sighing over a warden that barely remembered him was a little stalkerish though no where near as stalkerish than DA2 Anders he carries that title proudly and forever.

[Dean_the_Young]

Maybe this time around he channels a bit less of Edward "I watch you sleep" Cullen. 

 

I still think Anders and Varric should have colaborated on a smut book with the tagline 'The Templars Come and Watch.'

 

For Anders, pro-mage propoganda about how the Templars are spying at the most intimate of moments. For Varric, a hilarious success as people start thinking the Templar life is a lot more exciting than it actually is.

[Uirebhiril]

I'm a big fan of Bioware making a villain who falls in love at first sight with the Protagonist.

 

Now that would be an interesting twist. Maybe they try to recruit you to their side along the way, or you get to the big end battle and they offer you the choice to rule with them in murderous, dysfunctional loving harmony instead of destroying them.

 

I sort of maybe remember how Sion in KotORII was supposed to be in love with the Exile or something? I may not be remembering right anymore, but with the feeling of that fight at the end it made sense to me back then.

[Phate Phoenix]

Ah, apologies. I let myself get a little off topic.
 
It all seemed so harmless...
 
 
Gah! Bad Dean!
 
 
Ahem. Romance talk.
 
I think it would be amusing if Bioware did a companion character/romance in which the companion does the most ridiculous, implausible thing of all: falls in love at first sight.
And then, knowing that it's silly and bad and unworthy, struggles to overcome and deal with that annoying persistent crush on the player character in a mature and respectful manner. While the player can play that in any number of ways.

 
This would be a very interesting dynamic to play with. You could play ignorant, or mutually attracted, or cruel and use their affections. Very interesting.

 

I think Scribbles is a good candidate, as she's been described as 'fanatically devoted' to the Inquisitor. Cullen was shown as infatuated with the mage Warden, so he might make sense. For our companions, well, Cassandra has been described as a romantic...

 

I'm a big fan of Bioware making a villain who falls in love at first sight with the Protagonist. It would solve a lot of their plot problems; (1) it helps to explain all of the obivous idiot ball moments when the villain leaves you alive instead of just shooting you in the head; (2) it can create hilarious tension when, say, you get captured with some NPC and he gets sent off to the dungeon, whereas you go off to the "dungeon", and (3) it gets everyone the yandere they've been talking about in this thread.

Oh my God. I want this so bad.

[Xilizhra]

Sharing the feelings isn't exclusive with taking advantage of them. Tali's choice makes a Poor Decision. Shepard enables it. This disturbs me for the same reason I'd be disturbed if it were a question of having protected sex with someone with a serious STD.

 

Not all PCs are in a position of authority over the companions. Hawke is a great example, actually, since Hawke's crew are just voluntary joining and Hawke has no pretension at authority or a command relationship. The Warden is a bit more iffy, since the party leader isn't exactly an official leader of any organization and the crew is more camp followers than members.

I don't know. Only four romance options are genuinely Shepard's subordinates--Kaidan, Ashley, Samantha and Steve. Jacob and Miranda might count depending on how you think of Shepard's status in Cerberus, but everyone else is following Shepard as voluntarily as anyone in DA2 (unless Tali is exiled).

[Aimi]

I sort of maybe remember how Sion in KotORII was supposed to be in love with the Exile or something? I may not be remembering right anymore, but with the feeling of that fight at the end it made sense to me back then.

Supposed to be, yeah. It was an extremely poorly developed plotline even with the restored content, though.

[mrjack]

You're repeating the regulation argument again.
 
Shepard doing whatever he or she likes despite any and all restrictions that would normally apply (or in an absence of them) is an example of why Shepard is often a bad leader, not an unrealistic one. Bias, favoritism, and ignoring rules are quite realistic. Just because the rules can't be held to you doesn't mean it's not bad leadership to go against their premise.
 
Now, I have no issue with slandering Shepard with the brush of bad leadership. There are and have been people who protested, because they want to envision their Shepard as the most awesomest person and leader of the power fantasy that Mass Effect nakedly is. Or they say it was all good because nothing bad came of it. To which I say... congratulations. Your bad leader got lucky. More power to you.
 
It's not that I expect Bioware to ever hit military fraternization, mind you. To date with Bioware, fraternization concerns have been a dramatic/excitement threat to add spice for a relationship, not an actual threat or something others would condemn.
 
But then, what would you expect? These are the writers who Shepard was a good character to throw a PTSD/war stress plotline at. And, for some reason, thought that the above would be a credible candidate for 'most respected war hero in the galaxy' reputation for all the military soldiers encountered. You know, because he was an officer 'in the trenches' and 'just like them' with hisher three hot meals, hot showers, and a bunk (possibly with pretty LI) on a stealth ship far away from the front lines with short missions and frequent shore leave.
 
Actual soldiers would eat Shepard alive. Forget the heroic return to Earth as hero of hope for the resistance: Shepard would be lucky if the resistance didn't snidely thank the Commander for coming back after leaving them on their own.
 
Or maybe they did, and Anderson was just running interference. Can't have those fans learning how big of assholes soldiers can be towards their favorite projection avatar whose supposed to be the best of the best. (Uh, yeah. About that...)

And I have no problem with you painting Shepard as a bad leader. I believe it is subjective though based on your own experiences and knowledge of military life as it exists in our world. I believe you when you say that most soldiers fighting in a resistance would not look up to Shepard as some kind of ultimate hero because they know that the real heroes are those fighting the trenches day-in day-out with very little reprieve, facing all the same dangers without any of the comforts of a civilian designed warship. I think they would be wrong to discount him as a hero altogether though. He may not be any more heroic than your average soldier but he is still willing to give his life to protect the galaxy and ultimately does in 3 out of four endings. As for him being the leader of the fight against the Reapers, I don't necessarily see him this way and neither does Shepard himself (depending on how you play). He is ordered to the Mars archives and then when the plans for the crucible are discovered, he is ordered to build alliances and gather reinforcements and resources for the war. This is and has always been a role forced upon Shepard as a result of pure chance. He has always been the "everyman" soldier thrown into exceptional circumstances and forced to take an unorthodox approach to dealing with the whatever evil he was faced with. The fact that the rest of the galaxy needed to have one man they could point to as their saviour was none of Shepard s doing. It's basically PR and goodwill needed in a time of crisis. I'm glad the soldiers on Earth reacted positively to Shepard upon his return because while neither I nor Shepard saw him as being the paragon of the human race that everyone else wanted him to be, he still successfully carried out the most important mission in galactic history and saved trillions of lives. If said front-line men and women can't give someone respect and appreciation for that, then they deserve a sync-animation kill by a banshee.

ETA: I didn't realise there were like 20 post moving on to another topic when I was writing this. I agree. It doesn't really belong here.