19658 réponses à ce sujet

[mrjack]

Actually, leaders IRL (which is to say, managers of any capacity) tend to have a lot of industry specific knowledge (though they may be leading varied teams, some of whom they don't have direct experience with). The only real exception is a job where the type of leading is itself a specialized skill, but typically that person has already done the job before coming up an organization that's tied to their original expertise.

I agree with your earlier post that the Inquisitor probably won't have any innate leadership skills and with the above post that having no knowledge of the inner workings of the organisation that you're leading isn't common in real life and is usually a recipe for a disaster. But let's not discount someone's capacity to tackle a very steep learning curve and come out the other side all the better for it. It happens in real life but obviously more so in works of fiction - the reluctant hero who rises to rises to the seemingly impossible challenges forced upon him (or her) might be and old trope but it seems like one that still resonates with players. The other option is to have the inquisitor as a former general or something that has vast experience in military campaigns. Where's the growth?

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

We also don't pick those leaders off the street. Even political leaders who weren't in government at all - which is really rare - have experience leading other super complicated organizations (like major multinational businesses). 

Ronald Reagan and a certain Austrian dictator had limited political experience before ruling major world powers.

[Schreckstoff]

We also don't pick those leaders off the street. Even political leaders who weren't in government at all - which is really rare - have experience leading other super complicated organizations (like major multinational businesses).

You have to start at the bottom in politics and military unless you've been a massive contributor in the past. Rarely a politician has a degree or experience in his millieu, it isn't his job to. A leader has to decide between the options his advisors, who are experts, provide. He decides which are in line with what he promised during election and his parties program.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

What does any of this have to do with romances in DAI?

[In Exile]

Ronald Reagan and a certain Austrian dictator had limited political experience before ruling major world powers.

 

Ronald Regan was the governor of California for almost 9 years before he became President. Though I imagine you're talking about his complete and utter lack of experience in goverment before becoming governor of California?

 

 

I agree with your earlier post that the Inquisitor probably won't have any innate leadership skills and with the above post that having no knowledge of the inner workings of the organisation that you're leading isn't common in real life and is usually a recipe for a disaster. But let's not discount someone's capacity to tackle a very steep learning curve and come out the other side all the better for it. It happens in real life but obviously more so in works of fiction - the reluctant hero who rises to rises to the seemingly impossible challenges forced upon him (or her) might be and old trope but it seems like one that still resonates with players. The other option is to have the inquisitor as a former general or something that has vast experience in military campaigns. Where's the growth?

If it was a novel or a movie, I'd agree with you. But this is a Bioware RPG. We've never seen the PC exhibit any kind of actual competence or thought. It's always an informed ability, and when it is an informed ability, the game kind of handwaves it away or ignores it totally. 

DA:A is the only case we've seen where we have advisors, and in that game the characters generally treated you like you didn't know your ass from your head (though they did defer to you and your decisions). 

[In Exile]

What does any of this have to do with romances in DAI?

 

Fair point. Totally shutting up now. 

[mrjack]

We also don't pick those leaders off the street. Even political leaders who weren't in government at all - which is really rare - have experience leading other super complicated organizations (like major multinational businesses).

So our Inquisitor was previously Project Leader In Charge of Profit Sustainablity and Growth in Emerging World Markets at JPMorgan Chase? Cool back story

[KaiserShep]

What does any of this have to do with romances in DAI?

Something about taking your troops to bed I think.

[mrjack]

What does any of this have to do with romances in DAI?

Since we found out about Freddie Prinze Junior yesterday, I have been thinking about how much LIs' voices influence my (digital) attraction to them. With all the amazing voice actors in previous Bioware games (and other games), who would you like to see voice you preferred love interest? Be specific to a character if you want, or just specify a voice you'd like to fall in love with.

[Brian ofthe Dialogue Wheel]

Ronald Regan was the governor of California for almost 9 years before he became President. Though I imagine you're talking about his complete and utter lack of experience in goverment before becoming governor of California?

 

 

If it was a novel or a movie, I'd agree with you. But this is a Bioware RPG. We've never seen the PC exhibit any kind of actual competence or thought. It's always an informed ability, and when it is an informed ability, the game kind of handwaves it away or ignores it totally. 

DA:A is the only case we've seen where we have advisors, and in that game the characters generally treated you like you didn't know your ass from your head (though they did defer to you and your decisions). 

Yep, the experience-less governance of Cali.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Since we found out about Freddie Prinze Junior yesterday, I have been thinking about how much LIs' voices influence my (digital) attraction to them. With all the amazing voice actors in previous Bioware games (and other games), who would you like to see voice you preferred love interest? Be specific to a character if you want, or just specify a voice you'd like to fall in love with.

That's tricky. Anyone on my rather large list I would rather have voice the protagonist. 

[mrjack]

That's tricky. Anyone on my rather large list I would rather have voice the protagonist.

I'd like to know who's on the list anyway. You might get lucky you never know.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd like to know who's on the list anyway. You might get lucky you never know.

Mostly voice actors and actresses that have done animes or similar cartoons. 

[In Exile]

That's tricky. Anyone on my rather large list I would rather have voice the protagonist. 

 

I kind of wish they'd have Fenris' VA voice a PC. 

[mrjack]

I kind of wish they'd have Fenris' VA voice a PC.

I can get on board with that. The best thing about Fenris was his voice. My own voice is pretty deep so it'd be great to have the English voice sound somewhat like me (even if I don't have that gravelly tone Fenris does). I guess now that there are American voices as well then finally players in their largest market get to have the same. Is anyone particularly looking forward to that?

[Maria Caliban]

All PCs are in a position of power, goes with the territory.

There's a difference in being in a position of power and being in a position of power over someone. Hawke might be a noble and the Champion of Kirkwall, but she has no authority or power over Isabela.

[LukaCrosszeria]

I kind of wish they'd have Fenris' VA voice a PC. 

 

If wishes were ponies...the fields of green would be empty in fact.

 

Fenris and male snarky Hawke was just about as good as it gets, for me. I have hopes for Iron Bull since he'll "sleep with anyone who won't break" and Junior said he'll "have sex with everyone". Based on what I've seen and read, IB is about it for potential romances for my male inq I think. Not particularly keen on Baldy & Moustache, the Grey Warden is Papa Wolf, and Cullen and Varric will most likely not bat for my team - nevermind that Varric is married to Bianca.

[Former_Fiend]

Whether it's proper or not, we'd be kidding ourselves if we pretended superior/subordinate relationships didn't happen all the time. Heart wants what the heart wants, and all that.

 

It's also that from a writing standpoint, you kind of have a limited number of options in who's going to be a romance; most of the arguments against NPC romances have been from a desire to have the LI with them on their adventure, which immediately limits them to the Inquisitor's subordinates. Even going into NPC territory; the ones you're going to be interacting with most are part of the inquisition, and again, are your subordinates. 

 

So to solve this 'problem' they'd have to come up with a group of non-companion characters who you interact with enough that you can actually develop a relationship with, come up with a reason for them to be significant to the plot so they don't exist solely for your PC to romance, and then still keep the romance options in the party open for people who don't particularly care about this moral quandary.

 

So, yea, I can see why this issue might squick people out, but so long as they're casting our PC as someone with authority over the party members, this is gonna happen.

[mrjack]

If wishes were ponies...the fields of green would be empty in fact.
 
Fenris and male snarky Hawke was just about as good as it gets, for me. I have hopes for Iron Bull since he'll "sleep with anyone who won't break" and Junior said he'll "have sex with everyone". Based on what I've seen and read, IB is about it for potential romances for my male inq I think. Not particularly keen on Baldy & Moustache, the Grey Warden is Papa Wolf, and Cullen and Varric will most likely not bat for my team - nevermind that Varric is married to Bianca.

I'm thinking IB too but there's an outside chance that Cullen will be bi rather than 100% hetero. If they go for the 2/4/2 spread people were discussing yesterday, the other bi option would be Solas, Cullen, Varric and Blackwall (assuming Dorian is gay - which I am). Out of those 4, I think the likely two are Solas and Cullen. I'd prefer Cullen.

[HuldraDancer]

I kind of wish they'd have Fenris' VA voice a PC. 

I'd be down for a Fenris like voice maybe not one that sounds exactly like him but one that's similar, his voice was the only reason I could tolerate most of his constant complaining in DA2 ^^;

[Deviija]

I kind of wish they'd have Fenris' VA voice a PC. 

 

I am someone that really dislikes a voiced protagonist, with my only exception so far being FemShep.  Liquid Silk Gideon Emery doing a PC's voice?     It would turn into another exception.  

[Dean_the_Young]

Whether it's proper or not, we'd be kidding ourselves if we pretended superior/subordinate relationships didn't happen all the time. Heart wants what the heart wants, and all that.

 

It's also that from a writing standpoint, you kind of have a limited number of options in who's going to be a romance; most of the arguments against NPC romances have been from a desire to have the LI with them on their adventure, which immediately limits them to the Inquisitor's subordinates. Even going into NPC territory; the ones you're going to be interacting with most are part of the inquisition, and again, are your subordinates. 

 

So to solve this 'problem' they'd have to come up with a group of non-companion characters who you interact with enough that you can actually develop a relationship with, come up with a reason for them to be significant to the plot so they don't exist solely for your PC to romance, and then still keep the romance options in the party open for people who don't particularly care about this moral quandary.

 

So, yea, I can see why this issue might squick people out, but so long as they're casting our PC as someone with authority over the party members, this is gonna happen.

 

Hence why I strongly approve of the emerging trend of non-companion romances. Step one is to get the romances out of our squads: Steve and Traynor were good steps, and I'd argue they were fair equivalents to off-mission companion content. Step two would be to get them out of our chains of command. SWTOR did this at various points with various class and world romantic flings: fluff, but a nice step.

 

The hardest part is justifying why the LI is available and involved, and that's hardly insurmountable. Even the Warden had non-companion NPCs Boehden and Sandal tag along as camp followers. The ME trilogy, with its constant availability of the Citadel of the hub world, could have had a perfectly reasonable military-civilian romance with someone station-side. Considering they nakedly wrote characters like Thane in to be LI's, creating a plot relevance wouldn't be terribly difficult. DA2 would be even easier, since the entire game takes place in a single city.

 

If I can think up a rationalizable context for an Inquisitor to have a LI outside of the inquisition who's often around (independent merchant comes to mind: diplomat to the Inquisition is another), I'm sure Bioware can as well.

[In Exile]

I am someone that really dislikes a voiced protagonist, with my only exception so far being FemShep.  Liquid Silk Gideon Emery doing a PC's voice?     It would turn into another exception.  

 

I could just listen to him read the phone book, seriously. Maybe with Fenris's theme in the background. 

[mrjack]

Hence why I strongly approve of the emerging trend of non-companion romances. Step one is to get the romances out of our squads: Steve and Traynor were good steps, and I'd argue they were fair equivalents to off-mission companion content. Step two would be to get them out of our chains of command. SWTOR did this at various points with various class and world romantic flings: fluff, but a nice step.

I feel like you and I are destined to disagree on everything! The idea of fighting alongside an LI is something I and many others want to keep in BW games. In ME3, my 2 options were Kaidan and Steve. With the extended cut I get to say the most heartfelt goodbye to Kaidan just before the final push to the beam. With Steve, I get a vidcom chat. If that sounds sappy to you, then I'm ok with that. This is the romance thread and if I can't be sappy here...

If a femshep romances Traynor, there isn't even a vidcom chat. Just a quick conversation on the Normandy before heading to Earth.

I'm not saying NPC romances can't be done well and it's good that they're there for guys like you who don't want to date within their squad but for those that do, they definitely should remain.

[Dean_the_Young]

Ok. And?