19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Chernaya]

Yeah bioware should force romance content on players to make them feel uncomfortable good idea.

Please... a single line of flirty dialogue isn't "romantic content".

[In Exile]

Yes, this is true.   For example, a pansexual would date someone in the middle of transitioning, whereas a bisexual might not.  Here's one answer I found.

 

If you are also attracted to people who are genderfluid, androgynous, or a third gender (for example), pansexual may be a more accurate term. If you are only attracted to men (including FTMs) and women (including MTFs), then bisexual would probably be a more accurate term.

 

That's very true. I think labels are just a pain anyway. And that's without getting into things like the actual kind of sex one is willing to have, etc.  All of this is to say that people's preferences are complicated.

 

At the same time, the alternative would be the usual gays and lesbians who get the leftover like they always do. If Sera and Dorian who many consider to be attractive were to be straight instead then it would fall into a typical scenario where the gays and lesbians' LIs are just second thought like with NPC romances in ME3 or DAO where they only have one LI. With that being said, Solas and Cullen are all very popular with the ladies, so I can't judge whether they're losing out on much.

 

Maybe. I can't comment on what straight women prefer, not being a straight woman.  

 

All that I meant was that straight women have often received less romance content (or less desirable content, cf. the Jacob catastrophe in ME3 or the Thanemace), and I worry that DA:I will repeat. 

[CuriousArtemis]

But really it's a problem I've seen before.  In ME2, Miranda, Jack, and Tali are pretty much crawling into maleShep's lap after doing their loyalty missions unless Shep puts the brakes on.  In ME1, Liara's trying to "get to know" Shep better unless you tell her "no" at least twice.  This time it just happened to be a male character.

 

Oh my god, I had to literally stop talking to all of them. It got to a point where my only dialogue options were romance options! Is that supposed to be a straight guy's dream? Gee, sure would love to play a game where all the GUYS are throwing themselves at me!

[Jaulen]

Yeah bioware should force romance content on players to make them feel uncomfortable good idea.

 

How is it being 'forced' to have someon show an interest in you and you turn the down if you're not interested.

 

Man.

 

Your definition of being 'forced' means every girl who's ever been hit on at a bar can scream "Oh Nos! I was just forced!'

[Iakus]

And yet my male Warden couldn't offer him his lampost. 

That's because it wasn't available until Awakening

 

What?

[Vegeta93]

How is it being 'forced' to have someon show an interest in you and you turn the down if you're not interested.

 

Man.

 

Your definition of being 'forced' means every girl who's ever been hit on at a bar can scream "Oh Nos! I was just forced!'

Bioware games are about choice i have no choice when anders flirts with me its forced.

[Grieving Natashina]

Please... a single line of flirty dialogue isn't "romantic content".

You know, it's times like this where I'm glad that most of the straight men that post aren't like that.  

 

Most of them have been going, "Eh, Anders was a thing.  Congrats to the LGBT community!  'Bout time you guys got some representation from our party members.  Now, is Cass/Vivienne/Scribbles going to be available?"

 

So, try to remember that sort of mentality is a minority and a dying breed.  There are straight men like my husband, who in every game but one where he's had the option to pick a gender, he rolls female (the lone exception in over 10 years was his gnome in WoW.)  He was even a female Bounty Hunter in ToR, and enjoyed the romance.  Note that there still isn't s/s romances from your companions in ToR.  He had fun roleplaying as a badass female that fell in love with her male squadmate.  

 

I'm not saying every straight guy is like that, but I know there are more of them out there having fun playing as straight women than one might think.  

[Xilizhra]

That's very true. I think labels are just a pain anyway. And that's without getting into things like the actual kind of sex one is willing to have, etc.  All of this is to say that people's preferences are complicated.

 

 

Maybe. I can't comment on what straight women prefer, not being a straight woman.

 

All that I meant was that straight women have often received less romance content (or less desirable content, cf. the Jacob catastrophe in ME3 or the Thanemace), and I worry that DA:I will repeat. 

I would say that straight women were not more shafted than both sexes of gay in ME3. They might have had only two viable LIs, but gay men had only two LIs period, and lesbians had... two LIs who had anything done with them, one who fled the Normandy altogether and then got snubbed from the Citadel party (all without any major content), and one random fling.

[oceanicsurvivor]

These are also the kind of people that can get told, "Your One True Love has disappeared to parts unknown on an epic quest of danger with the fate of the world at stake!" and go, "Oh, is that all?  I'll find them in in a week, tops," if not, "Why didn't they invite me along? "

 

Yeah, exactly (I think haha). I don't think we're giving the LI's enough credit if we think they're sitting around the fire knitting while they wait for their 'one true love' to return. They all have agency of their own and have done their own thing during that time even if they choose to hold out hope that the person they love is going to come back.

 

Yeah bioware should force romance content on players to make them feel uncomfortable good idea.

I don't think Anders advance was with the intention of making anyone feel uncomfortable ; even if it did have that effect on many people, of many genders, as they played. And certainly, if being exposed to anything remotely gay is having that gay content 'shoved down your throat' then maybe its you and not Bioware who has a slight problem.

[Elite Banana]

Oh my god, I had to literally stop talking to all of them. It got to a point where my only dialogue options were romance options! Is that supposed to be a straight guy's dream? Gee, sure would love to play a game where all the GUYS are throwing themselves at me!

 

Glad I'm not the only one

[Battlebloodmage]

That's very true. I think labels are just a pain anyway. And that's without getting into things like the actual kind of sex one is willing to have, etc.  All of this is to say that people's preferences are complicated.

 

 

Maybe. I can't comment on what straight women prefer, not being a straight woman.

 

All that I meant was that straight women have often received less romance content (or less desirable content, cf. the Jacob catastrophe in ME3 or the Thanemace), and I worry that DA:I will repeat. 

I think the difference is ME catered to straight males while DA cater to a broader demographic, DAO, straight women have the same amount as straight guys, DA2, women have 3 options while males have 2 options. Just because both games are developed by Bioware don't mean that they're being developed by the same exact team. Hopefully, Bioware can develop a game everyone can enjoy.

[Jewlie Ghoulie]

Bioware games are about choice i have no choice when anders flirts with me its forced.

Their point is that you /can/ avoid it. It may give you some rivarly points and I don't know if you wanted a friendship with Anders, but that early in the game you can EASILY almost, if not completely max out his friendship.

 

Therefore you are given a choice to avoid it. : )

[Grieving Natashina]

I love how "equal" translates into "less" for some folks out there.  I've read a few articles and I know why that's the case, but it never ceases to amaze me (in a bad way.)

 

 

Their point is that you /can/ avoid it. It may give you some rivarly points and I don't know if you wanted a friendship with Anders, but that early in the game you can EASILY almost, if not completely max out his friendship.

 

There for you are given a choice to avoid it. : )

Even if you turn down the flirt (which I have,) and still want to be friends with Anders, it's so easy to get him to damned near max before you step foot in the Deep Roads.  Within a quest or two of hitting Act 2, you can get to locked max friendship with no trouble.   Heck, I think Night Terrors should finish Anders' friendship off, if you're going the "good guy" route during the Fade sequence.

[Clockwork_Wings]

Yeah, exactly (I think haha). I don't think we're giving the LI's enough credit if we think they're sitting around the fire knitting while they wait for their 'one true love' to return. They all have agency of their own and have done their own thing during that time even if they choose to hold out hope that the person they love is going to come back.

 

Maybe that's how we'll meet some of them?

[Jagged Orchid]

First, note that the post I responded to didn't talk about straight male gamers, but rather straight people (and so was presumably targeted toward both men and women). 

 

Second, I think we need to carefully define "inclusive" here. Suppose that the fears are justified, and so-called "advisor" romances have less content than companion romances. Suppose (for the sake of argument) that the two advisor romances are bi, and (for example) Varric/IB and Cass/Viv are all straight. At this point, gay & lesbian gamers are less content for their romances: 1 companion + 1 bi NPC with less content, vs. 2 full companions. 

 

Would we say that this scenario is "inclusive"? To the extent that we would praise it for non-straight content, it seems difficult to praise it for inclusiveness when one side has less of it.

 

Now, what happens when we're talking about straight gamers having less content? Why does it suddenly become "inclusive"? That's a problematic standard for inclusiveness.

 

Of course, as I alluded to in my original post, one could make an argument about historical advantage and disadvantage. I think historical advantage has a critical role to play in furthering diversity. But there's an important distinction. Disadvantage shouldn't define what it means to be inclusive - rather, it should be our guideline when we have to make tough choices in the face of limited resources. 

It is one thing to say that there are only so many development zots for romances, and that Bioware must choose between whether gay & lesbian gamers will have more romance content (something incredibly rare for them, and never with openly gay companions in a Bioware game before) versus straight gamers (who have had a plethora of options in previous games, albeit more greatly favouring men than women). 

 

It is quite another thing to (vindictively) say that it is about time that straight gamers get their just desserts and see what it is like to have less content, because they have been in a position of advantage. I don't think this is a viewpoint we should respect, even if it is one we can understand. 

 

Okay, I get what you are saying and I do agree with you. The problem is, unless they make everything equal, nothing will ever be fair. 

 

It's tricky though. When DAO came out, we had 4 romanceable companions. Straight characters got 2 options and gay characters got one. At the time, I remember being really excited because here is this game that is giving me the option to romance a woman. That was a big deal. As we move forward though,  Then DA2 came around and holy crap, I have two women to choose from. Everyone is on equal footing, but most romance options are not distinct in their sexuality. 

 

So, maybe the question is, is  giving each companion a set sexuality worth it in the long run? If BW wants to be totally inclusive of all sexualities, is this the best course of action? I can't answer that for this game. If I were to look at past games, I'd say no because it's still comes off as throwing some people scraps and telling them to be happy they got something. 

 

I think it's hard sometimes to not look at turn about a little vindictively. Like I totally understand why a lot of straight males for example are upset. I understand because I have been there. The problem is, a lot of those same males (not all) were the ones telling us to get over it and relax because it's just a game and just a romance and if we want to romance a specific character we can just roll a different pc. So now they are experiencing this for the first time. However, instead of realizing that this is something that other people have been dealing with for years, they see it as BW pandering to the gays etc.

 

Without giving everyone the same amount and same kind of options all the time, it will never be equal. I just don't know if we can at this point say the game is not inclusive to X when we don't even know who all the LIs are or who they are interested in.

[Maria Caliban]

I have more faith in people being alright with a trans character, honestly. I really, really wonder how they would handle them as an LI, though. I feel like they probably would just side-step it. I feel like that's where things would get dicey.

If they had a trangender companion, do you think they ought to be a LI?

[Vegeta93]

Yeah, exactly (I think haha). I don't think we're giving the LI's enough credit if we think they're sitting around the fire knitting while they wait for their 'one true love' to return. They all have agency of their own and have done their own thing during that time even if they choose to hold out hope that the person they love is going to come back.

 

I don't think Anders advance was with the intention of making anyone feel uncomfortable ; even if it did have that effect on many people, of many genders, as they played. And certainly, if being exposed to anything remotely gay is having that gay content 'shoved down your throat' then maybe its you and not Bioware who has a slight problem.

Im fine with gay content in a game but not when it comes on to me i have no choice bioware make that for me. 

[Kingthlayer]

Surprised the first two fully confirmed romances we hear are homosexuals.  Well I guess Cassandra and Cullen are confirmed but we know nothing about their orientation, I'm leaning towards both being straight atm but you never know.

 

Personally I think they should come straight out and say who gets to **** who instead of allowing us to pointlessly speculate.  Looking at my first two Inquisitors and using the very little bit of information we have on the companions the only ones who seem even remotely interesting is Varric and Cole.

[syllogi]

If Dorian is gay thats fine but dont force gay content down my throat like anders.

 

Much like Zevran's massage offer, any gay content from Anders went down your character's throat consensually.

 

(i could not resist i'm sorry it was right there oh lawd)

[Iakus]

 

I don't think Anders advance was with the intention of making anyone feel uncomfortable ; even if it did have that effect on many people, of many genders, as they played. And certainly, if being exposed to anything remotely gay is having that gay content 'shoved down your throat' then maybe its you and not Bioware who has a slight problem.

I'm left to wonder if there was this much outcry over Zevran in DAO?  If not, perhaps it's just Anders' genral creepiness in DA2?

[Maria Caliban]

Yeah bioware should force romance content on players to make them feel uncomfortable good idea.

Yes!

Like you're in the middle of a battle in the desert one second and the next you're watching a cinematic where your character is having sex with Iron Bull, Cassandra, Varric, or Scribbles. You get no choice in the matter. That character is now your LI for the rest of the game.

[Jagged Orchid]

Bioware games are about choice i have no choice when anders flirts with me its forced.

 

but you are given the choice to turn him down. Him flirting with you didn't force you to romance him, nor did it turn your character gay. If you are not interested you can tell him so. He'll be upset for five minutes and then everyone goes on with their life. He doesn't brood the entire game and badger you to date him every chance he gets. 

 

Not to mention Anders hits on female characters as well. I didn't choose for him to hit on me, but I did choose to tell him I wasn't interested. It didn't offend me that a man might be interested in me. Had he kept bothering me about it, I would have been upset, but he dropped it as soon as I told him no thank you.

 

How is that any different?

[Grieving Natashina]

As I mentioned in the Dorian thread, June is Gay Pride month here in the US.  Now, I know that BW has little control over what EA's marketing department does, but the timing is probably not an accident.   Plus, since I know GaymerX is in about 2 1/2 weeks or so, they are probably releasing the info now to discuss what the inclusion of Dorian and Sera mean to BW/EA at that con.  I know I'll be watching for the panels when the time comes.

 

That's just pure speculation on my part, and has as much basis in reality as unicorn hair, so I could be very wrong.   

[oceanicsurvivor]

Maybe that's how we'll meet some of them?

 

I feel like the DA2 LI might be looking for Hawke, and thats how we come across them? It all depends on how deeply integrated the past protagonists are to the plot I think.

 

Im fine with gay content in a game but not when it comes on to me i have no choice bioware make that for me.

Well, Bioware didn't make a choice for you. You completely got to choose how you reacted to Anders advances; flirting back, shooting him down, politely turning him down. (Heck, if you're nothing but sarcastic to him you avoid the entire thing). But the character has just as much agency and right to react to your choice.

[Chernaya]

You know, it's times like this where I'm glad that most of the straight men that post aren't like that.  

 

Most of them have been going, "Eh, Anders was a thing.  Congrats to the LGBT community!  'Bout time you guys got some representation from our party members.  Now, is Cass/Vivienne/Scribbles going to be available?"

 

So, try to remember that sort of mentality is a minority and a dying breed.  There are straight men like my husband, who in every game but one where he's had the option to pick a gender, he rolls female (the lone exception in over 10 years was his gnome in WoW.)  He was even a female Bounty Hunter in ToR, and enjoyed the romance.  Note that there still isn't s/s romances from your companions in ToR.  He had fun roleplaying as a badass female that fell in love with her male squadmate.  

 

I'm not saying every straight guy is like that, but I know there are more of them out there having fun playing as straight women than one might think.  

Very true. I knew it already but I appreciate the comment, sometimes I need to be snapped back into reality when someone is ticking me off, haha.