19658 réponses à ce sujet

[ClassicBox]

 

 

I don't know if I'd say "racist", but I certainly side-eye people who make claims that they are not attracted to "white people" or "asian people".  It seems wrong to categorize all people of once race in this way.  I can understand preferring one race over another because you find the features common within that race to be attractive.  But to outright refuse someone based on their race is questionable in my opinion.  There is a lot  of variety in looks within a race and even more so around personality.  To completely disregard a race entirely is odd to me. 

Also, if you are only dating a particular race over another, aren't you essentially believing "that a particular race is superior to another" in this regard?

 

 

Alright, but this isn't ethnicity. This is a difference between say and elf and Qunari; something I assume is very biologically different. And that last line, not really. Is somebody who has a gender preference then 'sexist?' I'm sorry, perhaps I'm just not following your logic. (I hope I don't come off as rude, I am really just curious and want to see more of your opinion. ^^)

[HuldraDancer]

I'd like to point out that I've never used the word racist in this discussion.

 

I think they may be confusing  you with me since I did mention racism in a post on this page. Thedas racism to be exact.

[Mukora]

Also, little bit of fact correction regarding the hybrid discussion; while male ligers are sterile, females aren't infertile; they can produce children when mating with a male lion.

Whether or not that has any bearing on half elves or half dwarves(it rarely does in fantasy), I have no idea. Just thought I'd point it out.

Interesting. I didn't know this. Thanks!

[MisterJB]

I'd like to point out that I've never used the word racist in this discussion.

 

True, I apologize.

[Ianamus]

I think it's the outright refusal part that doesn't sit well with me.  If someone prefers blondes, that's one thing.  Everyone has preferences.  But it is very rare to run across someone who will flat out refuse to date someone who is brunette.  That's odd. 

 

If we take it to race, it's one thing to find people outside of your race to be attractive.  It is odd to say that you will only date outside of your race.  There are some odd and uncomfortable implications there.

 

Again, if someone prefers one race over another, it's fine.  Make it harder for them to initiate the romance.  But to say that the only reason why they won't romance the PC is because they are a dwarf?  That's unfortunate and would make me like the character a little less. 

 

I think it's incredibly hypocritical for people who absolutely refuse to initiate relationships with people based solely on gender in real life to say that absolutely refusing to initiate a relationship with someone because of their species/race is "unfortunate". 

 

I really don't see any difference between the two. 

[SnakeCode]

Also, little bit of fact correction regarding the hybrid discussion; while male ligers are sterile, females aren't infertile; they can produce children when mating with a male lion.

 

Whether or not that has any bearing on half elves or half dwarves(it rarely does in fantasy), I have no idea. Just thought I'd point it out.

What I find interesting is that we know elves can breed with humans and dwarves (though the child will always bear more resemblance to the other species) there is no precedent for humans, qunari and dwarves being able to interbreed. 

[MisterJB]

I don't know if I'd say "racist", but I certainly side-eye people who make claims that they are not attracted to "white people" or "asian people".  It seems wrong to categorize all people of once race in this way.  I can understand preferring one race over another because you find the features common within that race to be attractive.  But to outright refuse someone based on their race is questionable in my opinion.  There is a lot  of variety in looks within a race and even more so around personality.  To completely disregard a race entirely is odd to me. 

Also, if you are only dating a particular race over another, aren't you essentially believing "that a particular race is superior to another" in this regard?

There are foods I simply can't eat; even the smell will induce me vomits. There are others I love.

I don't believe those foods are objectivelly superior to those I dislike; I just, personally, don't like them. Others will and their opinions is as valid as mine, I just have my preferences.

 

Food aren't people, of course. But I believe the analogy fits.

[MisterJB]

What I find interesting is that we know elves can breed with humans and dwarves (though the child will always bear more resemblance to the other species) there is no precedent for humans, qunari and dwarves being able to interbreed. 

Gaider has described human/dwarf kids, they look like tall dwarves altough not as tall as humans. They're rare, practically nonexistant in Orzammar.

[Former_Fiend]

Now, I suppose I might be wrong on this considering how adamantly some are arguing about it, but I've never looked at racial preference, for lack of a better word, as being analogues to being straight or gay.

 

In my mind, it's more akin to bisexuality. Bisexuals are attracted to both men and women, but it isn't necessarily a 50/50 split. They can prefer one or the other while enjoying both.

 

So someone can have preferences for one set of ethnic features over another and that's not an issue. But I think it's very rare for those preferences to be completely adamant and inflexible to the point where it isn't even considered an option. 

[Mihura]

I think the problem with race restrictions runs deeper than people think. I am not against it, the same way I am not against sexual preferences, although DA 2 to me is the optimal build for romances in game.

Race restrictions can add deep to the character and flaws, just like they did with Ash in ME. The problem with this, is when it translate to real life, for example making PoCs racists, like Vivienne refusing to date elves, it would translate badly IRL but in her position of power would make sense. The same way Alistair is also a racist because he refuse to marry you if you are other than a human, in some version of the game but it does not translate badly for obvious reasons.

Why it it obvious? well because Ashley is target as a racist a lot but not Alistair or Miranda for example.

That is why they should be careful with this but Sera hating humans and flat out refuse romance is fine, the same way Samara does not want to be more intimate with you if you are renegade. 

[SnakeCode]

Gaider has described human/dwarf kids, they look like tall dwarves altough not as tall as humans. They're rare, practically nonexistant in Orzammar.

Yes that's what I mean, both humans and dwarves are able to breed with elves. Yet we have never heard of a case where dwarves, humans or qunari can breed with each other.

 

Is there something special or unique within the elven genes? I just find something about that interesting.

[daveliam]

 

Alright, but this isn't ethnicity. This is a difference between say and elf and Qunari; something I assume is very biologically different. And that last line, not really. Is somebody who has a gender preference then 'sexist?' I'm sorry, perhaps I'm just not following your logic. (I hope I don't come off as rude, I am really just curious and want to see more of your opinion. ^^)

 

I think it's incredibly hypocritical for people who absolutely refuse to initiate relationships with people based solely on gender in real life to say that absolutely refusing to initiate a relationship with anyone because of their species/race is "unfortunate". 

 

I really don't see any difference between the two. 

 

 

Hm, maybe I'm not explaining myself well.  Attraction is a funny thing because there is are both biological and sociological aspects to it.  You can not be attracted to someone because you don't find them physically attractive.  You can not be attracted to someone because you don't find their personality to be likeable.   Same sex attraction is usually not something that "develops" over time.  The vast majority of people who have same attraction have felt this way since birth and because of sociological reasons did not express it.  It's why gay people (myself included) get so worked up over the "you'll turn gay" comments that people about prison and whatnot.  Same sex attraction is innately ingrained into people that we have words for it.  In pretty much every culture, there are words for it.

 

Now, compare it with finding a different "race" attractive.  First of all, "race" isn't even a biological concept.  It's a social one, so that immediately makes it different.  Again, I could understand if someone said, "I don't find light skin attractive".  That's a preference.  But to say, "I don't find white people attractive" that sounds odd to me.  There are dark complected white people.  There are pale white people.  There are dark haired, light haired, red haired, blue eyed, green eyed, etc.  It just seems odd to dismiss an entire race (and ALL of the variety within it).  What exactly don't you find attractive about white people?  That would be my question to them.  And, converse to same sex attraction, there is no word for being "white-sexual" or "black-sexual".  That should be a big clue that it's not the same thing.  There's not even a word for it in English. 

Hope that clarifies my thoughts a bit more.

[Ianamus]

Now, I suppose I might be wrong on this considering how adamantly some are arguing about it, but I've never looked at racial preference, for lack of a better word, as being analogues to being straight or gay.

 

In my mind, it's more akin to bisexuality. Bisexuals are attracted to both men and women, but it isn't necessarily a 50/50 split. They can prefer one or the other while enjoying both.

 

So someone can have preferences for one set of ethnic features over another and that's not an issue. But I think it's very rare for those preferences to be completely adamant and inflexible to the point where it isn't even considered an option. 

 

Speaking as somebody who is bisexual: I have never understood completely locking off a particular gender, and view it with just as much confusion "how could somebody completely refuse to go out with a man/woman solely because of gender?" as other people are race "how could someone completely refuse to go out with a dwarf solely because of race?"

 

I think people just need to accept that there are people who feel that way, whether or not you personally understand it.

[Parkimus]

I don't know if I'd say "racist", but I certainly side-eye people who make claims that they are not attracted to "white people" or "asian people".  It seems wrong to categorize all people of one race in this way.  I can understand preferring one race over another because you find the features common within that race to be attractive.  But to outright refuse someone based on their race is questionable in my opinion.  There is a lot  of variety in looks within a race and even more so around personality.  To completely disregard a race entirely is odd to me. 

Also, if you are only dating a particular race over another, aren't you essentially believing "that a particular race is superior to another" in this regard?

 

Forgive me if I misunderstand, but by way of that logic, isn't  "preferring one race over another" then essentially believing "that a particular race is superior to another" as well?

 

 

There are foods I simply can't eat; even the smell will induce me vomits. There are others I love.

I don't believe those foods are objectivelly superior to those I dislike; I just, personally, don't like them. Others will and their opinions is as valid as mine, I just have my preferences.

 

Food aren't people, of course. But I believe the analogy fits.

 

CANNIBAL!

 

Joking aside, I agree with you 

[daveliam]

Now, I suppose I might be wrong on this considering how adamantly some are arguing about it, but I've never looked at racial preference, for lack of a better word, as being analogues to being straight or gay.

 

In my mind, it's more akin to bisexuality. Bisexuals are attracted to both men and women, but it isn't necessarily a 50/50 split. They can prefer one or the other while enjoying both.

 

So someone can have preferences for one set of ethnic features over another and that's not an issue. But I think it's very rare for those preferences to be completely adamant and inflexible to the point where it isn't even considered an option. 

 

Yes.  This is kind of what I'm getting at.  Preference for race is not the same as "preference" for gender.  The only people who have a practical preference for gender are bisexuals because they have options.  And it's very common for a bisexual to prefer one gender over the other and there's nothing questionable about it.

[Former_Fiend]

Yes that's what I mean, both humans and dwarves are able to breed with elves. Yet we have never heard of a case where dwarves, humans or qunari can breed with each other.

 

Is there something special or unique within the elven genes? I just find something about that interesting.

 

We know dwarves and humans can breed with each other, that's established. 

 

Qunari are a wild card; that they don't allow crossbreeding in the qun makes me think they tried it at some point and the results were... unpleasant. Qunari don't practice their selective breeding out of some sense of racial purity, they do it to produce more capable individuals. That type of breeding program demands some experimentation; I think somewhere a couple centuries ago they experimented with qunari/human hybrids and didn't like the result.

[Former_Fiend]

Speaking as somebody who is bisexual: I have never understood completely locking off a particular gender, and view it with just as much confusion "how could somebody completely refuse to go out with a man/woman solely because of gender?" as other people are race "how could someone completely refuse to go out with a dwarf solely because of race?"

 

I think people just need to accept that there are people who feel that way, whether or not you personally understand it.

 

That may well be; as I said, I could be wrong.

 

But even if we're to accept this as being the case, I don't see it as something that demands representation in the game in the way that sexual orientation does.

[SnakeCode]

We know dwarves and humans can breed with each other, that's established. 

 

Qunari are a wild card; that they don't allow crossbreeding in the qun makes me think they tried it at some point and the results were... unpleasant. Qunari don't practice their selective breeding out of some sense of racial purity, they do it to produce more capable individuals. That type of breeding program demands some experimentation; I think somewhere a couple centuries ago they experimented with qunari/human hybrids and didn't like the result.

Oooh, didn't know about humans and dwarves. Were was that established?

[Ianamus]

Yes.  This is kind of what I'm getting at.  Preference for race is not the same as "preference" for gender.  The only people who have a practical preference for gender are bisexuals because they have options.  And it's very common for a bisexual to prefer one gender over the other and there's nothing questionable about it.

 

Why isn't it though?

 

I have long held the belief that the only reason gender is seen as a completely separate and unique form of attraction/ unattraction is that society tells us that it is, when in reality it isn't very different at all. 

 

I know people who are completely unwilling to enter a relationship with people of a certain race or, for example, obese people, because they find them so unattractive the idea repulses them. It is a very real thing, however much people try to pretend that it isn't and that gender is it's own special category. 

 

 

That may well be; as I said, I could be wrong.

 

But even if we're to accept this as being the case, I don't see it as something that demands representation in the game in the way that sexual orientation does.

 

 

Because Thedas is a setting where gender stigma with regards to relationships is very low, but race stigma is insanely high. Discrimination and refusal to enter relationships based on race make a lot of sense with regards to the setting. 

[Gervaise]

May be Qunari/human hybrids were infertile, so they couldn't reproduce themselves.   I would imagine that in terms of strength the hybrid would be inferior to the pure Qunari and they wouldn't be bringing much to the table in terms of superior intelligence because the two species seem pretty similar in that aspect, so there wouldn't be seen much future in encouraging such a union.   With the Qun everything seems to be about practically and utility.

[Former_Fiend]

Oooh, didn't know about humans and dwarves. Were was that established?

 

http://dragonage.wik...man#cite_note-3

 

Children between humans and dwarves are extremely rare because of the low fertility rate of dwarves in addition to the small chances of producing offspring with other races. Half-dwarves are shorter than humans but taller than dwarves. Furthermore, it is more often that such mating would happen with surface dwarves as such union would be heavily stigmatized in Orzammar.[4]

[Todd23]

I want to see a kossith elf cross! Hopefully we will find out more about interbreeding in Inquisition.

[daveliam]

Why isn't it though?

 

I have long held the belief that the only reason gender is seen as completely separate and unique from any other kind of attraction/ unattraction is that society tells us that it is, when in reality it isn't very different at all. 

 

I know people who are completely unwilling to enter a relationship with people of a certain race or, for example, obese people, because they find them so unattractive the idea repulses them. It is a very real thing, however much people try to pretend that it isn't and that gender is it's own special category. 

 

I think that this is a very good question.  And I think it hits to the heart of why they are separate ideas in human society.  Again, there is no word for "white-sexual".  Why not?  Probably because it's not considered to be a biological function.  It's considered to be a sociological one and is, therefore, viewed differently. 

 

My question for the people you know who find "people of a certain race" to be "so unattractive the idea repulses them", would be "What specifically about that race repulses you?"  And then, I would show them people from that race who don't have that trait and ask them if it's really the entire race or just those features that they don't like.  If they still hold that it's the race, not the features, then I would find that questionable. 

[SnakeCode]

Oh, come on. Racism is cool. We should want it in game. It adds depth. And realism! It's even better the younger you are. Until you get beaten by a gang of your peers and get called a "******" or "slanted eyed rice cooker", you haven't really lived.

 

I have such fond memories of it.

Wow, that's really horrible and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

 

Has anyone really been asking for racism to be included in the game though? I for one haven't seen anything of the sort.