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Wow, that's really horrible and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Has anyone really been asking for racism to be included in the game though? I for one haven't seen anything of the sort.
No one explicitly asked for it.
I just woke up and glanced here actually. I just think we're getting into unpleasant territory. And felt like joking about it.
Wow, that's really horrible and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Has anyone really been asking for racism to be included in the game though? I for one haven't seen anything of the sort.
Agreed. I think that real life racism is getting a bit conflated with race-gating. I don't think that anyone is asking for a blatantly racist LI. Where it gets murky is with the people, like myself, who don't find race-gating to be simply a "preference". Again, I'm not saying that Varric is racist if he won't romance the Inquisitor, but if the only reason why he won't romance him/her is because s/he is a human and refuses to romance any human at all? That makes me like him less.
Wow, that's really horrible and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
Has anyone really been asking for racism to be included in the gsme though, I for one haven't seen anything of the sort.
I don't think anyone's asking for it from a racist perspective. I don't think anyone wants Cassandra to turn down a qunari inquisitor for being a heathen ox-man or Vivienne to turn down an elven inquisitor for being a dirty knife ear, for example.
But there's still an undertone of the concept of someone refusing to even consider the idea of love with someone on the basis of race that is...well, it has implications. I don't think for a moment that they're intentional implications on Bioware's part, but they're implications none the less.
My question for the people you know who find "people of a certain race" to be "so unattractive the idea repulses them", would be "What specifically about that race repulses you?" And then, I would show them people from that race who don't have that trait and ask them if it's really the entire race or just those features that they don't like. If they still hold that it's the race, not the features, then I would find that questionable.
I understand this, and I'm sure it is due to the features, but lets turn this argument back to Thedas:
Where are you going to find a dwarf that isn't short, a Qunari that is the size of a human and has a non-metallic skin tone, or an elf with flat ears?
Why isn't it though?
I have long held the belief that the only reason gender is seen as a completely separate and unique from of attraction/ unattraction is that society tells us that it is, when in reality it isn't very different at all.
I know people who are completely unwilling to enter a relationship with people of a certain race or, for example, obese people, because they find them so unattractive the idea repulses them. It is a very real thing, however much people try to pretend that it isn't and that gender is it's own special category.
Because Thedas is a setting where gender stigma with regards to relationships is very low, but race stigma is insanely high. Discrimination and refusal to enter relationships based on race make a lot of sense with regards to the setting.
Alrighty, I stand corrected; that is specifically asking for the refusal based on the idea of discrimination and prejudice; i.e., asking for racist companions, or a racist inquisitor.
To me it's a much more interesting story if the stigma around race in Thedas is tackled or at least touched upon, but capable of being overcome. But I don't like the idea of it being an insurmountable barrier, unless it's specifically used as an example of "this is wrong" towards that stigma.
I understand this, and I'm sure it is due to the features, but lets turn this argument back to Thedas:
Where are you going to find a dwarf that isn't short, a Qunari that is the size of a human and has a non-metallic skin tone, or an elf with flat ears?
Also, since we are trying to keep strictly about Thedas and stop muddying the waters with talk about RL implications. Let's keep in mind that we are talking about different species, not different races.
I understand this, and I'm sure it is due to the features, but lets turn this argument back to Thedas:
Where are you going to find a dwarf that isn't short, a Qunari that is the size of a human and has a non-metallic skin tone, or an elf with flat ears?
Couldn't resist. 
I understand this, and I'm sure it is due to the features, but lets turn this argument back to Thedas:
Where are you going to find a dwarf that isn't short, a Qunari that is the size of a human and has a non-metallic skin tone, or an elf with flat ears?
But here's where it gets tricky because it's a game. They don't have the resources to display the natural variation that would actually occur within the species.
I mean, if a character were to say that they would absolutely not romance elves. What is really the difference between:
and
Doesn't it seem odd that if my Inquisitor looked Anora, a character would find me attractive, but if I looked like Iona, they wouldn't?
Also, since we are trying to keep strictly about Thedas and stop muddying the waters with talk about RL implications. Let's keep in mind that we are talking about different species, not different races.
Again, race is not a biological term. In game, they call them races. NOT species. That's an important distinction.
Also, since we are trying to keep strictly about Thedas and stop muddying the waters with talk about RL implications. Let's keep in mind that we are talking about different species, not different races.
They don't look at themselves as different species, though; they look at themselves as different races.
There's no indication that humans of Thedas have a concept of different races of human; different enthicities and nationalities, sure, but they don't call themselves different races.They think of elves as a different race. They think of dwarves as a different race. They think of qunari as a different race.
And from a real world perspective looking at the game, the different races(elves and qunari especially) are used as analogues for real world cultures and the prejudice against them(and mages) is used as an analogue for real world racism and (in the case of mages) homophobia. As a writer, you can't do that- you can't take this group and use them as an analogue to demonstrate how wrong a real world perspective is, and then turn around and agree with it.
Again, race is not a biological term. In game, they call them races. NOT species. That's an important distinction.
Yes and I think thats a big mistake on biowares part. Race is a term used to classify humans, we know that elves, qunari and dwarves aren't offshoots of the humans. If we get told that they are, then I will stand corrected and change my wording, but as of now, they are different species.
But here's where it gets tricky because it's a game. They don't have the resources to display the natural variation that would actually occur within the species.
I mean, if a character were to say that they would absolutely not romance elves. What is really the difference between:
<snip>
and
<snip>
Doesn't it seem odd that if my Inquisitor looked Anora, a character would find me attractive, but if I looked like Iona, they wouldn't?
Yes, but I don't think humans not finding elves attractive will be a race gate used in inquisition. And if it is it will probably be a more racist thing (i.e Vivienne refusing a relationship with a non-human because it will hurt her standing and cause scandal).
That said though, let's have a look at your example of Varric on the previous page, and a more likely instance of race-gating.
Say Varric doesn't find qunari women attractive because he likes girls his height or shorter, and finds a girl about twice his height very unappealing. Therefore he is only available to dwarves and elves, because elves are still quite small and he can settle for one, even though they are slightly taller than he is. Would you still have a lower opinion of him if he refused to date you solely because you were playing a female qunari, even if there is is no way on Thedas you would ever see a female qunari his height?
And on an interesting note: Imagine it is revealed that qunari cannot reproduce with the other races, and Cassandra, who is deep-down a romantic, has always secretly longed for a family and children of her own. Would you have a lowered view of her for refusing a male qunari due to their race, if she only does so because she knows that they would never be able to have children of their own?
is Vivienne stated as LI?
No.
No.
ok, thanks : )
I just wondered, because everyone seems to think, she'll be available.
But here's where it gets tricky because it's a game. They don't have the resources to display the natural variation that would actually occur within the species.
I mean, if a character were to say that they would absolutely not romance elves. What is really the difference between:
and
Doesn't it seem odd that if my Inquisitor looked Anora, a character would find me attractive, but if I looked like Iona, they wouldn't?
ok, thanks : )
I just wondered, because everyone seems to think, she'll be available.
No problem. 
I think that this is a very good question. And I think it hits to the heart of why they are separate ideas in human society. Again, there is no word for "white-sexual". Why not? Probably because it's not considered to be a biological function. It's considered to be a sociological one and is, therefore, viewed differently.
My question for the people you know who find "people of a certain race" to be "so unattractive the idea repulses them", would be "What specifically about that race repulses you?" And then, I would show them people from that race who don't have that trait and ask them if it's really the entire race or just those features that they don't like. If they still hold that it's the race, not the features, then I would find that questionable.
I think it's incredibly hypocritical for people who absolutely refuse to initiate relationships with people based solely on gender in real life to say that absolutely refusing to initiate a relationship with someone because of their species/race is "unfortunate".
I really don't see any difference between the two.
Yes and I think thats a big mistake on biowares part. Race is a term used to classify humans, we know that elves, qunari and dwarves aren't offshoots of the humans. If we get told that they are, then I will stand corrected and change my wording, but as of now, they are different species.
They're still sentient, sapient, capable of the full range of emotions that humans are.
With those things in mind, the arguments against it are essentially identical to a lot of arguments against interracial relationships in real life. I've brought it up a few times on here; I've got an uncle who disowned his daughters because they married black men and he didn't want "half-monkey" grandchildren. In his mind, black people aren't human, they're so different from white people as to be another species. It's essentially the same rational.
Yes and I think thats a big mistake on biowares part. Race is a term used to classify humans, we know that elves, qunari and dwarves aren't offshoots of the humans. If we get told that they are, then I will stand corrected and change my wording, but as of now, they are different species.
You are putting something here that is not from the devs though. You're head canoning that they are species even though the game says race. The game makes it clear that they are races, so you have already been corrected. They don't need to give you the evolutionary history of the races in Thedas.
Yes, but I don't think humans not finding elves attractive will be a race gate used in inquisition. And if it is it will probably be a more racist thing (i.e Vivienne refusing a relationship with a non-human because it will hurt her standing and cause scandal).
That said though, let's have a look at your example of Varric on the previous page, and a more likely instance of race-gating.
Say Varric doesn't find qunari women attractive because he likes girls his height or shorter, and finds a girl about twice his height very unappealing. Therefore he is only available to dwarves and elves, because elves are still quite small and he can settle for one, even though they are slightly taller than he is. Would you still have a lower opinion of him if he refused to date you solely because you were playing a female qunari, even if there is is no way on Thedas you would ever see a female qunari his height?
And on an interesting note: Imagine it is revealed that Qunari cannot reproduce with the other races, and Cassandra, who is deep-down a romantic, has always secretly longed for a family and children of her own. Would you have a lowered view of her for refusing a male Qunari due to their race, if she only does so because she knows that they would never be able to have children of their own?
So you have two interesting thoughts here:
1.) Re: Varric, again, it's not having preferences. It's the flat out refusal of an entire race of people that I find odd.
2.) I think that your second point is more interesting. If qunari and humans can't biologically reproduce, then I can see that giving someone pause. That would indicate that they are actually different species and not races. We could look at an analogous situation and say, "Would she still be with a sterile human man?" If the answer is yes, then she should also not have an issue with qunari based on that criteria. If the answer is no, then it's not because of their "race" that she's not open to the romance. It's because of their reproduction, which is a different thing.
At least how I view it.
Yes and I think thats a big mistake on biowares part. Race is a term used to classify humans, we know that elves, qunari and dwarves aren't offshoots of the humans. If we get told that they are, then I will stand corrected and change my wording, but as of now, they are different species.
It's actually a mistake from the fantasy genre that existed well before BioWare did. We can blame Tolkien for popularizing it and D&D for making it the standard of RPGs.
Basically, in the case of a fantasy setting or RPG game, race means species.
The difference is that these two concepts are incomparable. One pertains to a preference while the other is an orientation. To make this comparison propagates the deleterious belief that homosexuality is a choice when it clearly isn't. It's not that I refuse to initiate any kind of relationship with women based on their gender; I'm just not sexually and romantically attracted to them. It's not a switch that I can miraculously turn on and off. Many of us have felt this way since childhood.
"Preference", "Orientation", are just words thrown around. I look at the thing itself rather than shooting words around that don't really describe what's going on.
I view sexuality as a spectrum with homosexuality and one end and heterosexuality at the other end. The expanse in the middle is attraction to both genders (to changing extents).
And I view attraction to everything else on a similar scale. You get people at one end who are completely unattracted to said thing and people of varying degrees of attraction towards it.
People always act as though orientation and preferences for other things are two completely separate things, but I think they are fundamentally the same. My sisters complete unattraction to a certain race (or at least the features generally pertaining to said race) is no more a choice than another persons complete unattraction towards women.
They're still sentient, sapient, capable of the full range of emotions that humans are.
With those things in mind, the arguments against it are essentially identical to a lot of arguments against interracial relationships in real life. I've brought it up a few times on here; I've got an uncle who disowned his daughters because they married black men and he didn't want "half-monkey" grandchildren. In his mind, black people aren't human, they're so different from white people as to be another species. It's essentially the same rational.
I'm currently in an interracial relationship IRL, so i'm well aware that some of the arguments uncomfortably close to being racism.
However when that sentient, sapient organism actually IS another species I don't think the racism argument fits.
For example, let's say a highly intelligent, fully sentient, sapient aliens like the Turians landed on earth tomorrow. You really would think people not wanting to date them would be racist?
It's unlikely to happen, but i'd really like a dev to clarify the whole race/species thing so we can all put this argument to bed.
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