19658 réponses à ce sujet

[In Exile]

 @In Exile  

 

 Like I said numbers are all we really have to go on since they have not gone into very much detail on the physical difference in strength from various races so numbers are all we have to go on and according to the starting numbers dwarves are stronger it's further down on the page but the starting numbers for races and classes are there. I did post the numbers but when I posted it they came out wacky and the chart they were in had disappeared.

 

I'm not saying the dwarves aren't strong and sturdy as a people, I just don't think we have evidence that (1) qunari have some unreal level of strength that e.g. means they could literally break human bones by accident and (2) that dwarves are so sturdy they wouldn't even be bruised (or would barely be bruised) by some level of force strong enough to shatter human bone. 

 

The logic about elves being weaker relies on a really big gap in strenght between the races we just don't have evidence of in-game or in the lore.

[javeart]

I got say I find kind of scary a guy who evaluates potential sexual partners in terms of "breakable/not breakable"   ... I mean, I'm pretty sure he could avoid break anyone, doesn't matter how tiny, if he wanted to 

[Maria Caliban]

In Thedas, Dwarves are considered sturdy because they are. The extra con is to reflect this.

That you can gain 80 more con than a standard dwarf is because it's not just a fictional setting, it's an RPG. PCs experience dramatic increases in power over time that is in no way natural or reflective of the average person in the setting.

[In Exile]

Uh, you focused on the wrong part.

 

The other part is the fact that they're short and stocky.

 

Of course, you think I missed "hardy constitution", but you're misunderstanding the phrase. Saying someone has a hardy constitution is like saying they have a robust constitution, which isn't a reference to their physical strength or endurance, but rather a reference to illness and vitality. 

[HuldraDancer]

I'm not saying the dwarves aren't strong and sturdy as a people, I just don't think we have evidence that (1) qunari have some unreal level of strength that e.g. means they could literally break human bones by accident and (2) that dwarves are so sturdy they wouldn't even be bruised (or would barely be bruised) by some level of force strong enough to shatter human bone. 

 

The logic about elves being weaker relies on a really big gap in strenght between the races we just don't have evidence of in-game or in the lore.

 

That's why I said quite a few times the starting numbers are all we have to go on since the game has not gone into that kind of detail and according to the starting numbers dwarves are more sturdy going by the only information that we have at the moment.

[In Exile]

In Thedas, Dwarves are considered sturdy because they are. The extra con is to reflect this.

That you can gain 80 more con than a standard dwarf is because it's not just a fictional setting, it's an RPG. PCs experience dramatic increases in power over time that is in no way natural or reflective of the average person in the setting.

 

Sure. My point isn't that dwarves aren't considered sturdy. My point is that for IB to out and out rule out a race of people because he'd break one but not the other through rough sex, we have to be talking about things like the strength to shatter bones. And while elves are thin, they don't have hollow bones. 

[In Exile]

That's why I said quite a few times the starting numbers are all we have to go on since the game has not gone into that kind of detail and according to the starting numbers dwarves are more sturdy going by the only information that we have at the moment.

 

Right, but based on that there's no reason to think that dwarves are a special case compared to humans or elves. 

[Maria Caliban]

There is absolutely no evidence dwarves are more sturdy than elves or humans.

I'm not saying the dwarves aren't strong and sturdy as a people...

 

 

 

Sure. My point isn't that dwarves aren't considered sturdy. My point is that for IB to out and out rule out a race of people because he'd break one but not the other through rough sex, we have to be talking about things like the strength to shatter bones. And while elves are thin, they don't have hollow bones. 

 

If they race gate him, they'll use whatever excuse they want to use. I have no idea if he'll be race gated or not.

[Zellya]

Well there is this from the wiki

 

Edit: The thing came out all wrong I'll post a link instead http://dragonage.wik...butes_(Origins)

 

But you seem to really dislike that notion which I'm not sure why exactly. Elves are a pretty weak race even down to them unable to birth other elves with any other race outside their own. I don't think any of the races have gone into the whole make up of which race is the strongest anyway so starting numbers are all we really have to go on.

 

I just find it odd that if Iron Bull is a race gated LI that dwarves would be the only ones restricted. Aside from starting numbers in origins elves just look frail and yes I know looks aren't much to go on. Again I just find it odd if he's only cut off from one race just like I would find it odd if he was available for only one race, if that makes any sense. 

 

I don't deny that Dwarves would be a sturdier race, but putting so much stock in Origins attribute stats is silly. Completely ignoring the fact that those particular stats imply that the average human has higher cunning and dex than an elf, Origins was basically the pilot of the DA series. It was originally built to stand alone, and there are a lot of little things that they've fudged and reworked as they moved into future games.

 

 

Elves being unable to have elven children with anyone outside their race is implied to be due to magical reasons; there's no evidence it has anything to do with "strength", and I'm confounded as to why you think it makes them weak.

 

 

And even if it wasn't magical in nature and it was instead simple genetics, the elf gene being recessive to the human gene by no means means that the elves are "weaker" in anyway.

[LobselVith8]

And even if it wasn't magical in nature and it was instead simple genetics, the elf gene being recessive to the human gene by no means means that the elves are "weaker" in anyway.

 

If it's magical in nature, then genetics don't come into the picture.

[In Exile]

If they race gate him, they'll use whatever excuse they want to use. I have no idea if he'll be race gated or not.

 

This is one of those, intention doesn't translate well into rapid posts situations. I didn't really explain myself well when I jumped into the topic. What I meant at first was that we don't have proof that the dwarves, as a people, have some form of superlative endurance that's impossible for even the strongest human or elf to achieve. I acknowledge that their bell curve might be shifted to the right, but I think it's all within the realm of "human potential". 

 

To me, it seems like people who assume that elves are out basically have to assume that IB can crush rocks or break bone or that elves have hollow bones that would break in a fall (because they include humans but exclude elves). So either humans are much stronger in this setting too, or elves are super weak. 

[HuldraDancer]

Right, but based on that there's no reason to think that dwarves are a special case compared to humans or elves. 

 

I never said dwarves were the strongest race just that they were more sturdy but this is me going by the numbers we've been given that and my opinion when you take their culture in compared with the elves which I think I may have mentioned in this thread before though it could have been the romance thread before it that got shut down I'm not sure. I'm not saying these things like they are fact (aside from the numbers cause that is fact) mostly all of them are my opinion.  Most of my posts about elves being weaker have been me teasing/joking I apologize if it came off as me attacking elves.

[Zellya]

If it's magical in nature, then genetics don't come into the picture.

 

Ummm...  I know that it has been said to be more magical in nature than genetic. I had just given a hypothetical "even if that wasn't the case". I was supporting your case, there's no reason for you to argue at me.

 

[LobselVith8]

Ummm...  I know that it has been said to be more magical in nature than genetic. I had just given a hypothetical "even if that wasn't the case". I was supporting your case, there's no reason for you to argue at me.

 

 

I wasn't intending to come across that way, my apologies. I simply meant genetics is unlikely to come into the picture when it's a fantasy setting. I'm seeing an awful lot of posts claiming elves are "weak" without any lore or information from the developers actually backing that up, and I honestly find it a bit irksome, so maybe that's bleeding through.

 

As a general message, Dagna will likely show up in Inquisition. In case anyone was curious, since I know some speculate she might be a LI.

[Cat Fancy]

I will continue to believe that the classification of elf-blooded children in Thedas is just an example of hyperdescent until Feynriel comes back with round ears. Or until one of the writers complains about people doing this again. Those are lies; I'll still keep believing that regardless.

[In Exile]

I wasn't intending to come across that way, my apologies. I simply meant genetics is unlikely to come into the picture when it's a fantasy setting. I'm seeing an awful lot of posts claiming elves are "weak" without any lore or information from the developers actually backing that up, and I honestly find it a bit irksome, so maybe that's bleeding through.

 

As a general message, Dagna will likely show up in Inquisition. In case anyone was curious, since I know some speculate she might be a LI.

 

I think it's just an association with thin/short = weak, because the media's representation of strength is about being jacked. Since we've got world cup fever going on, it's basically a situation where people would assume someone like Neymar is physically weak because he's not built like Hulk (the soccer player, not the comic character). 

[Freedheart]

LOL - I don't know, Sten seemed to imply things might get out of hand...something about nuzzling and a crowbar? 

[LobselVith8]

LOL - I don't know, Sten seemed to imply things might get out of hand...something about nuzzling and a crowbar? 

 

Sten was joking. The developers clarified that for people who took him seriously.

[Hellion Rex]

LOL - I don't know, Sten seemed to imply things might get out of hand...something about nuzzling and a crowbar? 

I'm down for that.

[Freedheart]

As was I... 

[LobselVith8]

As was I... 

 

Curse you, BSN. 

[Chernaya]

That was one of the best party banters ever, because Sten's sense of humor is just hilarious. buahaha.

[javeart]

That was one of the best party banters ever, because Sten's sense of humor is just hilarious. buahaha.

 

Sten was great   He's the only character I'd ever like to be a returning companion, and yes, only to be an LI, because in fact he should have been our first qunari LI 

 

btw: Leliana looks really beautiful in DA:I. I couldn't blame anyone for wanting ro re-romancing her, to be honest.

[Chernaya]

Indeed! and thus why I'm hoping IB will take up that very role! I'm all for finally having a Qunari (and Dwarven) romance, and hoping DA:I brings those things. :3

[Zellya]

Sten was joking. The developers clarified that for people who took him seriously.

 

lol did they really? That's funny xD

 

I loved Sten after I started catching onto his deadpan humor.

 

That and when I discovered his sweet tooth