19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

Just gonna point out that Fenris' romance had a pretty damn happy ending. Just had a lot of problems throughout the arc.

 

Everyone's romance in DA2 except Anders had a happy ending really.

[In Exile]

I agree. I'm not saying fictional couples always have to be perfectly happy. That they should never argue, disagree, etc. No, because that's how real people interact, and it really would be boring otherwise if they never had any problems or challenges to overcome. I just don't think soap opera sadness or some new contrived Deu Angst Machina is the solution.

 

Like, I find it funny that Gaider says happy couples are boring when DA2 includes a very interesting and fun one. I thought Aveline's and Guardsman Donnic's relationship was very sweet, funny, and interesting without it being mental hospital dysfunctional like all of Hawke's relationships. Aveline's hilarious attempt at wooing Donnic came from how quirky she is as a character, not how creatively angsty the writers thought they could make the situation. I like how when they get together, other characters tease her about being able to picture them having a whole brood of red-heads able to lift a cow. Or how she gets offended that Donnic goes to Fenris' mansion to play cards once a week but they didn't invite her, and they say they would have but she's just so... competitive. And how they disavow all gambling in Fenris' mansion. O:-)

 

To me, what makes a couple interesting is how interesting they are as characters, and how their little quirks and whatnot play off each other.

 

Like you said, I just don't think relationships should have to be made soap opera tragic or dysfunctional just to be interesting.

 

The other thing with a lot of drama in romances is the the relationship between the romantic arc and the story as a whole. In DA2, everyone basically was going bonkers to some degree or another. Kirkwall was a cesspool of chaos and insanity. A stable, reasonable relationship would have provided a good counterpoint to that lunacy. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Everyone's romance in DA2 except Anders had a happy ending really.

That really depends on how you look at it. Anders and my Hawke ran away together on friendmance, so their ending was as happy as anyone else's, really. 

[Ryzaki]

That really depends on how you look at it. Anders and my Hawke ran away together on friendmance, so their ending was as happy as anyone else's, really. 

 

Fair enough.

[Deviija]

That really depends on how you look at it. Anders and my Hawke ran away together on friendmance, so their ending was as happy as anyone else's, really. 

 

Hee.  I was going to point that out too.  My DudeHawke and Anders ran off to be fugitive terrorist boyfranz together 4eva.  They're quite happy.   

 

Though it is a sad "ending" in that Anders' kaboom and betrayal comes right at the end of the game and it cannot be avoided.   

[cowoline]

Ha, that is awesome. Should definitely make her a rogue though that uses a bow.

A bow called Varric perhaps?

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Hee.  I was going to point that out too.  My DudeHawke and Anders ran off to be fugitive terrorist boyfranz together 4eva.  They're quite happy.   

 

Though it is a sad "ending" in that Anders' kaboom and betrayal comes right at the end of the game and it cannot be avoided.   

Well, the way I was playing my mage Hawke, I felt like I could support his decision with that character. So, when he said he didn't tell me to protect me from blame, in my game it made sense that he was telling the truth because there was no other reason not to tell me. For my character, it wasn't a betrayal.

 

For anyone that was playing in a way that the explosion would really mess up their plans, it was a sad ending, though, definitely. Anders is only a happy ending if you're playing a very specific way and agree with his choices.

[In Exile]

Well, the way I was playing my mage Hawke, I felt like I could support his decision with that character. So, when he said he didn't tell me to protect me from blame, in my game it made sense that he was telling the truth because there was no other reason not to tell me. For my character, it wasn't a betrayal.

 

For anyone that was playing in a way that the explosion would really mess up their plans, it was a sad ending, though, definitely. Anders is only a happy ending if you're playing a very specific way and agree with his choices.

 

I think even in that case, the fact that Anders didn't tell you is fatal to the relationship. The best analogy I can think of is the DR with an M!Warden, only where Morrigan does the ritual without your consent (assuming, for the moment, that's possible). In fact, I think the fact that there was consent involved is what saves the Morrigan romance.

[pallascedar]

Everyone's romance in DA2 except Anders had a happy ending really.

 

I haven't seen the Gaider quote, so I'm not sure what I'm arguing, but I've seen people reacting to it and talking about happy endings. I brought up Fenris because he's sorta the epitome of "unhappy romance" and his still ended relatively happily.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think even in that case, the fact that Anders didn't tell you is fatal to the relationship. The best analogy I can think of is the DR with an M!Warden, only where Morrigan does the ritual without your consent (assuming, for the moment, that's possible). In fact, I think the fact that there was consent involved is what saves the Morrigan romance.

Well, it just depends on how important that sort of thing is to you. To me, it's not a deal-breaker. I look at it as, "we've been close for a decade now and I know you'd support me on this, but I decided to be the one to take the blame and leave you in a safer position". Which I understand a lot of people are still not alright with that, but it's not enough for me to call things off. I would rather just take it in stride and use it as a growing point for the relationship, as in, "you didn't trust me on this and it put us in a more difficult position, so maybe next time tell me and we'll better plan our exit strategy ahead of time". 

 

I think Morrigan's situation would have been worse without consent, because she's actually conceiving a baby with you and then replacing it's soul. That has some really personal implications. But, I mean, I guess again it's actually more of a subjective issue as to which thing means more to you, personally.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

User

I see. Can you answer if the romances are equal to the reg party member ones as far as content?

 

David Hulegaard ‏@HulegaardBooks 

yes.

[In Exile]

Well, it just depends on how important that sort of thing is to you. To me, it's not a deal-breaker. I look at it as, "we've been close for a decade now and I know you'd support me on this, but I decided to be the one to take the blame and leave you in a safer position". Which I understand a lot of people are still not alright with that, but it's not enough for me to call things off. I would rather just take it in stride and use it as a growing point for the relationship, as in, "you didn't trust me on this and it put us in a more difficult position, so maybe next time tell me and we'll better plan our exit strategy ahead of time". 

 

I think Morrigan's situation would have been worse without consent, because she's actually conceiving a baby with you and then replacing it's soul. That has some really personal implications. But, I mean, I guess again it's actually more of a subjective issue as to which thing means more to you, personally.

 

I should have added (and totally forgot) a big YMMV. I wasn't trying to suggest my feelings on the issue are right; I recognize that this is all quite personal and it's about how each of us view relationships. So if it sounded like I was challenging you on a personal level, I have to apologize. That said, I do think this is an interesting discussion about trust in romances, and think we should carry on with it.

 

If Anders went off on his own and nuked the Chantry, I think you could have a conversation about how he didn't trust Hawke enough, and see their relationship through. But Anders lied and manipulated you, taking advantage of your (in-character) ignorance of the chemical formula he was putting together and exploiting your relationship and fervent desire to help him by, effectively, making you an accessory to what could well have been mass-murder. 

 

It's not the lying, and it's not the mistrust, as much as it is the manipulation, exploitation and abuse of trust, that makes the situation (in my eyes) so fatal to the relationship continuing. That's why I analogize it to a DR without consent: because it is more than just passive mistrust. Although I will say that there's a child in the middle is a non-issue to me because I don't want children, so that's another huge YMMV. 

[HuldraDancer]

Eh, I don't find tragic relationships fun. I've witnessed and experienced enough dysfunctional (and even abusive) relationships growing up that that's not what I want to write about, or even see for that matter. Sorry, that's not to say my couples don't have problems at all. Of course I try to keep the relationship realistic by giving them problems and challenges, having them fight and disagree, and have them more snap or lash out the way most real people would when under the same stresses, etc.

 

I just don't like introducing tragedy, drama, and angst for its own sake. It's a means to an end for the story at large, or to create the character development they need, or to ultimately bring them closer together, not drive them apart for the sake of enjoying their fighting, angst, tears, etc.

 

 

That's understandable a close friend of mine has gone through some pretty abusive relationships herself and I find them pretty uncomfortable (though to me tragic doesn't equal abusive, even though abusive relationships are always tragic if that makes any sense)  I see what you mean though for me personally it's hard to write happy relationships probably because until recently I had no examples to look at, that and the person I write with looooooooves drama and the person I sometimes run ideas by hates everything I write so I end up getting sucked into drama again since it's familiar its what I know and what I grew up with. I do a have happy couple I'm working on now though where any drama tends to come from outside but my character's girlfriend is written by my drama loving friend so I'm a little worried that it's going to end badly^^; Though again she does seem to like the relationship a lot herself so maybe she'll leave it alone and let the women be happy together

 

I admit while I agree with you 100% I am very guilty of doing that myself a lot, could be because I'm an armature writer at best could be because it's what's familiar or it could be because of my friend loving drama and convincing me to use it again and again, I'm not sure it is hard for me personally to break that mold but tragic relationship do get just as stale as overly happy ones just as fast. Perhaps we'll see a mix of them in DAI so people can get their drama fix and their happy fix. I hope so anyway

[Phoe77]

Just to chime in, I could never see what Anders did as anything but an explosive end to our relationship.  Almost all of my Hawkes support mage freedom, but I have yet to make one that can condone what he did.  It doesn't help that he dupes you into helping him with that by asking you to collect crystallized poop (which would usually be a dealbreaker for me on its own) under the guise of helping him overcome his possession.  I just can't be that forgiving.  

 

That said, I think it's a neat way to present a romance arc and, as much as I personally want to punch Anders in the face, I enjoyed pursuing it.

[AresKeith]

User
I see. Can you answer if the romances are equal to the reg party member ones as far as content?

David Hulegaard ‏@HulegaardBooks
yes.

That should kill some worry, hopefully but probably not

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I should have added (and totally forgot) a big YMMV. I wasn't trying to suggest my feelings on the issue are right; I recognize that this is all quite personal and it's about how each of us view relationships. So if it sounded like I was challenging you on a personal level, I have to apologize. That said, I do think this is an interesting discussion about trust in romances, and think we should carry on with it.

 

If Anders went off on his own and nuked the Chantry, I think you could have a conversation about how he didn't trust Hawke enough, and see their relationship through. But Anders lied and manipulated you, taking advantage of your (in-character) ignorance of the chemical formula he was putting together and exploiting your relationship and fervent desire to help him by, effectively, making you an accessory to what could well have been mass-murder. 

 

It's not the lying, and it's not the mistrust, as much as it is the manipulation, exploitation and abuse of trust, that makes the situation (in my eyes) so fatal to the relationship continuing. That's why I analogize it to a DR without consent: because it is more than just passive mistrust. Although I will say that there's a child in the middle is a non-issue to me because I don't want children, so that's another huge YMMV. 

It's alright. I wasn't offended or anything. 

 

I think that a lot of it is a "between the lines" view of your characters wants and how Anders's actions effect that. I did the friendmance path and I don't remember any lines about him not trusting me. He talks about not telling you to protect you at the end. He makes it sound like he chose to go ahead without you so that you wouldn't be held accountable for the incident, since he seems to expect execution for himself. 

 

My character agreed with the morality behind blowing up the chantry (and I don't really want to get into debating the possible true morality of it so much) on the basis that the Chantry was standing in the way of mage freedom by keeping the situation from changing. Because the Chantry had power in the situation, my character saw it as a fair target. A decade had passed since you met Anders and he'd been living with you for years at this point, so I assume he would know if you would support the decision he made. If you supported it, then the "manipulation and lies" outlook makes no sense. There'd be no reason to manipulate or lie to a person that constantly supported your choices. If you're someone that always acted in support of the mages and always vocalized agreement with Anders, then his claim that he wanted to protect you makes more sense than the idea that he was lying and manipulating you. 

 

So, when you strip out the need for lying and manipulating and the disagreement with what he did, you're just left with the fact that he decided to put your safety above his own without giving you a choice in the matter. In a lot of cases, this is actually a selfish act, but it's something that I can live with and hope to balance in time. I guess another viewpoint for the even less morally driven is that he stole your glory by taking credit for the big event, but that's not something that bothers me, personally.

[javeart]

In my canon playthrough (or even if romanced, or maybe especially if romanced) I never do that last mission for Anders (which is not particularly interesting anyway). I ignore him so he doesn't have to lie to me, and so he can go on with his plan on his own and I'm just surprised when it happens, and that's it. I like Anders, and I don't like to have get mad at him 

[Ryzaki]

I haven't seen the Gaider quote, so I'm not sure what I'm arguing, but I've seen people reacting to it and talking about happy endings. I brought up Fenris because he's sorta the epitome of "unhappy romance" and his still ended relatively happily.

 

Ah. I thought Fenris ended the happiest really dat pouncy kiss.

[Chernaya]

Anders and I skipped off into the sunset after DA2, it was very happy. Lots of kittens and rainbows. 

[HuldraDancer]

Wish I got an Anders happy ending I got a bug where Anders implies that he's going to kill himself once everything is said and done

[Xilizhra]

Wish I got an Anders happy ending I got a bug where Anders implies that he's going to kill himself once everything is said and done

If you rivalmanced him, I think that was intentional.

 

Also, Merrill's ending was quite happy. Leliana's... ehn.

[Kimberly]

Wish I got an Anders happy ending I got a bug where Anders implies that he's going to kill himself once everything is said and done

I only play pro-mage Hawke, but doesn't he say this if you talk him into fighting for the Templars or something?

[HuldraDancer]

If you rivalmanced him, I think that was intentional.

 

Also, Merrill's ending was quite happy. Leliana's... ehn.

 

Well then that sucks for me even though I did side with the mages in that playthrough I did rival him cause his methods and the fact he was possessed worried my Hawke and they didn't agree with his methods.

 

I only play pro-mage Hawke, but doesn't he say this if you talk him into fighting for the Templars or something?

 

I went with the mages even though I rivaled him, didn't like how he went about doing things but didn't want to see the mages wiped out either.

 

I did try it once with the templars and I didn't get the line that implies he's going to kill himself just got that he left my Hawke in the end (which is very understandable)

[The Elder King]

If rival, Anders doesn't really have much chances to survive, even if he won't kill himself. J/V would assume direct control soon.
On friendship, he's in armony with J/V...but I think it's better to be prepared to whatever Bioware could do.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I could never do a rivalmance, because they're just so alien and contrary to the way I approach relationships, but I understand some people were into them.