19658 réponses à ce sujet

[xAmilli0n]

Yeah, Merrill was just so naive and adorable, I just wanted to be her pal and look out for her, so her hating me always got me in the feels pretty hard.

 

I don't know, while you get a bit less of the super adorable Merrill with her rival path, you see more of her...I guess mature/adult side.  In the end I just found the entire rival path (and romance) more well rounded than the friendship path.  Especially if you go to rival from being in friendship thanks to that one event.

 

At least that's how I remember it anyways.

[Chernaya]

Honestly, I don't think the risk from the demon was actually all that harsh. We fought a lot of pride demons. lol

 

I always support Merrill with the Eluvian. I agree with her that it's an important artifact and I don't agree with destroying things you don't understand because they scare you. I just wish we could have found somewhere else to take it where we might have gotten more help restoring it in more effective way.  

 

I could go with that... it would certainly be more comfortable than it sitting in my friends bedroom who has barely any idea what she's doing as she pokes and prods at it. xD lol.

[Xilizhra]

I don't know, while you get a bit less of the super adorable Merrill with her rival path, you see more of her...I guess mature/adult side.  In the end I just found the entire rival path (and romance) more well rounded than the friendship path.  Especially if you go to rival from being in friendship thanks to that one event.

 

At least that's how I remember it anyways.

Emotionally damaged and confidence broken. I would hope maturity would lead to better places than that.

[TheJediSaint]

Rival path wasn't Hawke destroying Merrill's dreams.  It was Hawke convincing her that they were a bad idea.

[xAmilli0n]

Emotionally damaged and confidence broken. I would hope maturity would lead to better places than that.

 

You see, I didn't get that...but its been a while since I played, so maybe your right.  I just remember going "demons are bad" her going "I don't you need your help" and then me being there to pick up the pieces when she finally went "What have I done?"

 

Tough love, but still love.

[Xilizhra]

Rival path wasn't Hawke destroying Merrill's dreams.  It was Hawke convincing her that they were a bad idea.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. They were a perfectly good idea, just used at the wrong time with the wrong people.

[renfrees]

I should have added (and totally forgot) a big YMMV. I wasn't trying to suggest my feelings on the issue are right; I recognize that this is all quite personal and it's about how each of us view relationships. So if it sounded like I was challenging you on a personal level, I have to apologize. That said, I do think this is an interesting discussion about trust in romances, and think we should carry on with it.

 

If Anders went off on his own and nuked the Chantry, I think you could have a conversation about how he didn't trust Hawke enough, and see their relationship through. But Anders lied and manipulated you, taking advantage of your (in-character) ignorance of the chemical formula he was putting together and exploiting your relationship and fervent desire to help him by, effectively, making you an accessory to what could well have been mass-murder. 

 

It's not the lying, and it's not the mistrust, as much as it is the manipulation, exploitation and abuse of trust, that makes the situation (in my eyes) so fatal to the relationship continuing. That's why I analogize it to a DR without consent: because it is more than just passive mistrust. Although I will say that there's a child in the middle is a non-issue to me because I don't want children, so that's another huge YMMV. 

That was a dealbreaker in Anders' romance for me, too. I couldn't bring myself to live with the person I can't trust.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I could go with that... it would certainly be more comfortable than it sitting in my friends bedroom who has barely any idea what she's doing as she pokes and prods at it. xD lol.

It's definitely not the best situation. I was actually always disappointed that we could never make it a priority to find out more about the Eluvians or search for anyone that knew anything about them. I mean, she has it in her house for a decade and this can be one of your closest friends, or even your romantic partner who has lived with you for years. You would think you'd consider looking into the thing that she's made her life's work. The warden did more concerning it to find Morrigan with less pretense, wtf Hawke? lol    

[HuldraDancer]

They're not doing any DLC companions like Sebastian. Maybe temps.. like Tallis. 

 

I really hope they do DLC like Legacy, where you just bring your usual guys. I like that so much more than having a new one forced in. I just can't get attached to someone knowing I'll only see them in the one DLC.  

 

Agreed I like to not have my part having to be a certain way especially if the tag along we're taking is as useless in a fight as Talis was. Though in Legacy I felt the need to take certain characters with me but the game didn't make me which was good. If we are going to get a temp companion though I think they should get their own slot and not count in our party slots but that's just me.

[Xilizhra]

You see, I didn't get that...but its been a while since I played, so maybe your right.  I just remember going "demons are bad" her going "I don't you need your help" and then me being there to pick up the pieces when she finally went "What have I done?"

 

Tough love, but still love.

You know, you accomplish exactly the same thing with the friendmance, minus all emotional turmoil and trust issues.

[Ianamus]

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. They were a perfectly good idea, just used at the wrong time with the wrong people.

 

Her rivalry path ends with her letting go of the past and her eluvian and working to help improve the lives of the elves currently living in her alienage. It's a much more useful, practical and gratifying goal than spending six years trying to fix a broken mirror. 

 

Warning: spoiler for the masked empire below

 

Spoiler

Since Briala regains control of and reactivates all of the Eluvians in The Masked Empire anyway all of Merrills work would ultimately have been massively overshadowed and rendered useless. By an elf who wasn't even Dalish, no less. I'd imagine that would have hit her a lot harder than anything on her Rivalry path. 

[xAmilli0n]

You know, you accomplish exactly the same thing with the friendmance, minus all emotional turmoil and trust issues.

 

Do you?  Oh well, I guess I did for the drama then.

 

 

EDIT: Wait, how can you tell her "Demons are bad" and then give her the mirror thing?  Sending poor Merrill mixed messages.

[Xilizhra]

Her rivalry path ends with her letting go of the past and her eluvian and just working to help the elves currently living in her alienage. It's a much more useful, practical and gratifying aim than spending six years trying to fix a broken mirror. 

 

Warning: spoiler for the masked empire below

 

Spoiler

Considering that Briala regains control of the Eluvians in The Masked Empire anyway all of Merrills work would ultimately have been massively overshadowed and rendered useless. By an Elf who wasn't even Dalish. I'd imagine that would hit her a lot harder than anything on her Rivalry path. 

Again, friendship leads to the exact same thing minus everything bad. And she keeps trying to fix the mirror on the rivalry path, so you accomplished exactly nothing.

 

As for your spoiler, that required the Dalish to do all the work and Briala to just nab the secret; in any case, they had far more resources than Merrill and only got slightly farther, so it matters little. Hopefully we can see Merrill with them there in the future.

[Wulfram]

Some times I see Merril's plot line as being about addiction.  Which makes me feel pretty skeevy about the friendship path.

 

Though most  times I think that that analogy doesn't really work, and that Hawke doesn't really have a good enough reason to actively stand in Merrill's way.  So I end up in a friendship path, but one with a lot of warnings and "are you sure?" going on.

[Chernaya]

It's definitely not the best situation. I was actually always disappointed that we could never make it a priority to find out more about the Eluvians or search for anyone that knew anything about them. I mean, she has it in her house for a decade and this can be one of your closest friends, or even your romantic partner who has lived with you for years. You would think you'd consider looking into the thing that she's made her life's work. The warden did more concerning it to find Morrigan with less pretense, wtf Hawke? lol    

 

Exactly! If an option like that had ever come up, I probably would have taken it. I mean, I'm flexible. But when it was between "SHE'S TALKING TO DEMONS THROUGH HER MIRROR AT NIGHT" and "No stop it, this is a bad idea, hun. I'm not supporting it.", I was more inclined to pick the latter. xD *shrugs*

[Xilizhra]

Exactly! If an option like that had ever come up, I probably would have taken it. I mean, I'm flexible. But when it was between "SHE'S TALKING TO DEMONS THROUGH HER MIRROR AT NIGHT" and "No stop it, this is a bad idea, hun. I'm not supporting it.", I was more inclined to pick the latter. xD *shrugs*

She does it either way, you just betray her and make it harder on rivalry.

[Ianamus]

Again, friendship leads to the exact same thing minus everything bad. And she keeps trying to fix the mirror on the rivalry path, so you accomplished exactly nothing.

 

She shatters it. 

[xAmilli0n]

Again, friendship leads to the exact same thing minus everything bad. And she keeps trying to fix the mirror on the rivalry path, so you accomplished exactly nothing.

 

Sure but you removed a tool that might get her in trouble.  And Merrill two paths is one that sure looks similar with metagame knowledge, but excluding that, I feel the rival path works fine, and is justified.

 

Some times I see Merril's plot line as being about addiction.  Which makes me feel pretty skeevy about the friendship path.

 

Though most  times I think that that analogy doesn't really work, and that Hawke doesn't really have a good enough reason to actively stand in Merrill's way.  So I end up in a friendship path, but one with a lot of warnings and "are you sure?" going on.

 

A reasonable enough stance.

[Chernaya]

She does it either way, you just betray her and make it harder on rivalry.

 

I know, which is why eventually I just went with it on later playthroughs... might as well to avoid her becoming so upset with me. x.x

[Xilizhra]

She shatteres it. 

At the end of the path, long past the point of decision between friendship and rivalry. She keeps working on it for the rest of Act 2 and all of Act 3 up until then... and she stops working on it in friendship anyway, so again, it accomplishes nothing.

[Reznore57]

She does it either way, you just betray her and make it harder on rivalry.

 

Never felt like I was betraying Merrill...I was scared she was going to end up dead.

She knew she could die , and was ok to pay the price.

As her friend, I simply disagreed.

[xAmilli0n]

She does it either way, you just betray her and make it harder on rivalry.

 

You see, I don't see it as a betrayal.  Its more like a different personality (because there is more than 1 type of Hawke) handling the same situation differently, while still having the same intentions.

 

Anyways, bringing this back to topic, I simply think Merrill's example was one that stood out to me, and hopefully, if they implement some sort of alternate romance paths, they can take some of the better things her rival romance did into consideration.

[TheJediSaint]

Some times I see Merril's plot line as being about addiction.  Which makes me feel pretty skeevy about the friendship path.

 

Though most  times I think that that analogy doesn't really work, and that Hawke doesn't really have a good enough reason to actively stand in Merrill's way.  So I end up in a friendship path, but one with a lot of warnings and "are you sure?" going on.

 

I tend to think more obsession than addiction.   And I do think there's plenty of reason for Hawke to intervene.

[Xilizhra]

Sure but you removed a tool that might get her in trouble.  And Merrill two paths is one that sure looks similar with metagame knowledge, but excluding that, I feel the rival path works fine, and is justified.

I would not agree that it can be justified.

 

 

Never felt like I was betraying Merrill...I was scared she was going to end up dead.

She knew she could die , and was ok to pay the price.

As her friend, I simply disagreed.

It's going along with Marethari's blatantly illegal-by-Dalish-law action, which is quite good enough for me. And you weren't her friend.

[Chernaya]

You can still be someone's friend if you don't agree with every life decision they make. xP