19658 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

I don't see how wanting to bring an end to the decline of her people is comparable to addiction. I thought it was admirable that she wanted to help the Elvhen, and she did research the subject quite a bit. Merrill studied the lore on the Eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard she took from the Elven Ruins, then worked on the construction of her own Eluvian, incorporating the shard she took into it's construction.

I think they might refer to the fact that she was too focused on the Eluvian to the point of forgetting to eat and (possibly, don't recall it) sleep.
Which would be obsession, not addiction.

[xAmilli0n]

Because a human born and bred knows more about ancient elven technology and what's good her people better than the elven woman who's extensively studied and researched it. It's up to the Big Strong Human to show the poor, simple, tribal little native what's good for her, explain why she doesn't know what she's doing, and show her that her priorities are screwed up and how she should actually apply them.

 

You know, I didn't get that at all.  Like I said earlier, I pretty much got, "demons are bad, don't do that."  I'm pretty sure most would agree on that, human or not.

[Xilizhra]

You know, I didn't get that at all.  Like I said earlier, I pretty much got, "demons are bad, don't do that."  I'm pretty sure most would agree on that, human or not.

Were it so simple, it seems unlikely that there would have been a choice at all.

[LobselVith8]

But had Merrill listened to rivalry Hawke and stopped what she was doing she would never have gone through the loss of Marethari, death threats from her clan or having to kill her entire clan herself. 

 

I'd rather be the one who saw it coming and tried to prevent it than the one who encouraged Merrill along the course that would lead it to happen, regardless of whether or not the outcome is the same. 

 

Merrill wouldn't have gone through Marethari's loss had the Keeper not released Audacity. The clan wouldn't potentially die if they didn't attempt to murder Merrill. You're blaming Merrill for the actions of other people. Things go badly because Marethari freed Audacity from an ancient prison, became an abomination, and tried to kill Merrill, and this is followed by the clan attempting kill Merrill and Hawke unless the Champion coddles them. 

 

I'm not seeing why Merrill should be blamed for the actions of other people. Also, Hawke genuinely knows nothing about the Eluvian, and his opposition to it isn't an example of foresight when he's speaking from a place of ignorance.

[Chernaya]

Welp... I suppose I started a big debate on Merrill's intentions, which wasn't what I planned. >.> whoops.

[xAmilli0n]

Welp... I suppose I started a big debate on Merrill's intentions, which wasn't what I planned. >.> whoops.

 

It happens. 

 

 

Were it so simple, it seems unlikely that there would have been a choice at all.

 

Sure, but that doesn't make it less true.  Another way of looking at it, is whether or not you are willing to let Merrill work with something (demons) that is almost universally considered bad, even if the end goal is decidedly good.

 

Its an interesting discussion either way, which is why I would like to see alternate paths in DA:I.

[Reznore57]

Anyway , since there's  some Dalish specialist around.

I'm planning on playing a gay Dalish in DAI , does somebody know how the Dalish view homosexual relationship?

 

Edit:oh and ideas for male Dalish name?

[sandalisthemaker]

Since this has spiraled into a heated debate on Merrill, I have to ask:

 

@ Xil and Lobsel

 

Did you guys wipe out Merrill's clan in your canon playthroughs? I'm curious since you guys both love Merrill and at the same time are very pro-Dalish.

[The Elder King]

Anyway , since there's  some Dalish specialist around.
I'm planning on playing a gay Dalish in DAI , does somebody know how the Dalish view homosexual relationship?

Not good, I guess, due to their limited numbers and the need to have as many new children as possible.

[LobselVith8]

Trying to show Merrill that her actions will always affect those around her and those who love her, however much she tries to make sure the only one negatively affected is her. That's practically the entire arc of her rivalry path. She may not care if she dies trying to fix her mirror, but those around her do.

 

Also, slightly off topic and more spoilers for The Masked Empire:

 

Spoiler

Considering what happened to the clan who summoned the demon to help them in the Masked empire, Marethari's clans stance on demons and blood magic seems entirely justified.

 

Merrill isn't responsible for the actions of other people. It's not Merrill's fault that Marethari set Audacity loose, and it's not Merrill's fault that the Sabrae clan lacks the self-control to resist attempted murder. These are grown adults with free will.

 

Also, Merrill isn't Andrastian. They are spirits to her - not Spirits and Demons, not the First Children of the Maker and the ones who turned their backs on the Maker to embody different sins. They are spirits, and they are all dangerous. As Merrill says, "Anders... there's no such thing as a good spirit. There never was. All spirits are dangerous. I understood that. I'm sorry that you didn't."

 

Spoiler

Michel de Chevin set Imshael loose, which lead to the massacre of Clan Virnehn. He's another example of someone who thinks they know more than the members of another culture.

[AresKeith]

Welp... I suppose I started a big debate on Merrill's intentions, which wasn't what I planned. >.> whoops.

 

Merrill is srs business for some people

[Xilizhra]

Sure, but that doesn't make it less true.  Another way of looking at it, is whether or not you are willing to let Merrill work with something (demons) that is almost universally considered bad, even if the end goal is decidedly good.

 

Its an interesting discussion either way, which is why I would like to see alternate paths in DA:I.

Actually, that has little-to-nothing to do with it and requires either metaknowledge or an unfocused perception of time: Merrill visited a demon once to learn blood magic, then never works with them again until Act 3, which is well after friendship or rivalry is generally locked in (certainly long after the arulin'holm decision), at which point she wants to see Audacity. And the responses on friendship and rivalry are both incredulous and worried. Demons are not the subject of Merrill's rivalry; it's all the Eluvian itself.

 

 

Since this has spiraled into a heated debate on Merrill, I have to ask:

 

@ Xil and Lobsel

 

Did you guys wipe out Merrill's clan in your canon playthroughs? I'm curious since you guys both love Merrill and at the same time are very pro-Dalish.

Lying to the clan to make them leave is easy enough.

 

 

Anyway , since there's  some Dalish specialist around.

I'm planning on playing a gay Dalish in DAI , does somebody know how the Dalish view homosexual relationship?

 

Edit:oh and ideas for male Dalish name?

About the same as the rest of Thedas, from what I know.

[LobselVith8]

Anyway , since there's  some Dalish specialist around.

I'm planning on playing a gay Dalish in DAI , does somebody know how the Dalish view homosexual relationship?

 

Edit:oh and ideas for male Dalish name?

 

There's never been any indication that the Dalish frown on homosexuality. Merrill never makes any insinuation that the People would have an issue with it, either (in dialogue with a female Hawke), as opposed to her romance with a male Hawke, where she makes an off-handed reference to a union between her and Hawke leading to human children. I highly doubt it would be unprecedented.

 

As for elven names, you could peruse the elven language on the unofficial Dragon Age website, which compiles a list from the games and World of Thedas. I'm going with Revas (freedom) myself.

[Reznore57]

Not good, I guess, due to their limited numbers and the need to have as many new children as possible.

 

Yeah.I found this  http://wiki.chronicl...Dalish:_Bonding on the net .

Sadly there's no link , or anything proving it's "official" material.

[LobselVith8]

Since this has spiraled into a heated debate on Merrill, I have to ask:

 

@ Xil and Lobsel

 

Did you guys wipe out Merrill's clan in your canon playthroughs? I'm curious since you guys both love Merrill and at the same time are very pro-Dalish.

 

No, I didn't wipe out the Sabrae Clan. I initially defended Merrill with my apostate Champion, and then immediately proceeded to escape the area by heading right (after coming down from the mountain), which only required my protagonist to dispatch a few people. It felt out of character to blame Merrill, but I also had no interest in killing everyone, especially since fighting people like Arianni made little sense to me (given everything my protagonist had done to help her son).

[draken-heart]

Anyway , since there's  some Dalish specialist around.

I'm planning on playing a gay Dalish in DAI , does somebody know how the Dalish view homosexual relationship?

 

I do not see how the Dalish Views on homosexual relationships matters that much. The way I see it, your character is no longer Dalish when they take over/start up the Inquisition

[Dean_the_Young]

Because a human born and bred knows more about ancient elven technology and what's good her people better than the elven woman who's extensively studied and researched it. It's up to the Big Strong Human to show the poor, simple, tribal little native what's good for her, explain why she doesn't know what she's doing, and show her that her priorities are screwed up and how she should actually apply them.

 

Whether it's the big strong human or the clever little dwarf or the angsty skinny elf or the human-abomination of justice or the woman who has more balls than most men or anyone else.. if she's wrong, she's wrong. As amusing as the racism motif is, it only applies if racism is the motivation of the corrector. If it isn't, then the argument itself is a racist attack to deligitimize the views of -insert group here-.

[Xilizhra]

No, I didn't wipe out the Sabrae Clan. I initially defended Merrill with my apostate Champion, and then immediately proceeded to escape the area by heading right (after coming down from the mountain), which only required my protagonist to dispatch a few people. It felt out of character to blame Merrill, but I also had no interest in killing everyone, especially since fighting people like Arianni made little sense to me (given everything my protagonist had done to help her son).

I tried this, but failed to get it to work properly, so was forced back into the original choice.

 

 

Whether it's the big strong human or the clever little dwarf or the angsty skinny elf or the human-abomination of justice or the woman who has more balls than most men or anyone else.. if she's wrong, she's wrong. As amusing as the racism motif is, it only applies if racism is the motivation of the corrector. If it isn't, then the argument itself is a racist attack to deligitimize the views of -insert group here-.

Her point is that the narrative framing of it is racist, not necessarily Hawke.

[xAmilli0n]

Actually, that has little-to-nothing to do with it and requires either metaknowledge or an unfocused perception of time: Merrill visited a demon once to learn blood magic, then never works with them again until Act 3, which is well after friendship or rivalry is generally locked in (certainly long after the arulin'holm decision), at which point she wants to see Audacity. And the responses on friendship and rivalry are both incredulous and worried. Demons are not the subject of Merrill's rivalry; it's all the Eluvian itself.

 

Yeah?  Well, then I'm sure I objected to the blood magic or whatever.  Or maybe I simply heeded Marethari's warning, thinking she probably knew better.  Its been a long time since I played DA2, and frankly I never put in the time into DA lore as with ME.

 

As a fan of Merrill and the Dalish in general, I am curious as your the strong opposition to the rival path.

[Reznore57]

I do not see how the Dalish Views on homosexual relationships matters that much. The way I see it, your character is no longer Dalish when they take over/start up the Inquisition

 

It's just for roleplay reason , I imagine if my Dalish grew up among people who thought homosexuality wasn't something "right",the way he may view his own homosexuality would be different from someone growing up where it's not a problem at all.

[LobselVith8]

I do not see how the Dalish Views on homosexual relationships matters that much. The way I see it, your character is no longer Dalish when they take over/start up the Inquisition

 

I don't see how that's applicable. If the person retains their cultural views and their religious views, the person is still Dalish. Merrill is certainly Dalish, despite moving to the Kirkwall Alienage; she views the denizens of the Beyond as dangerous spirits, and believes in the Creators. The elven protagonist becoming the Inquisitor doesn't mean the person forsakes who he or she is.

[sandalisthemaker]

No, I didn't wipe out the Sabrae Clan. I initially defended Merrill with my apostate Champion, and then immediately proceeded to escape the area by heading right (after coming down from the mountain), which only required my protagonist to dispatch a few people. It felt out of character to blame Merrill, but I also had no interest in killing everyone, especially since fighting people like Arianni made little sense to me (given everything my protagonist had done to help her son).

 

Oh, so you ran away from the fight altogether.  That's an interesting way to avoid a messy situation.

[draken-heart]

I don't see how that's applicable. If the person retains their cultural views and their religious views, the person is still Dalish. Merrill is certainly Dalish, despite moving to the Kirkwall Alienage; she views the denizens of the Beyond as dangerous spirits, and believes in the Creators. The elven protagonist becoming the Inquisitor doesn't mean the person forsakes who he or she is.

 

The rules of the Dalish would no longer apply, however.

[Xilizhra]

Yeah?  Well, then I'm sure I objected to the blood magic or whatever.  Or maybe I simply heeded Marethari's warning, thinking she probably knew better.  Its been a long time since I played DA2, and frankly I never put in the time into DA lore as with ME.

 

As a fan of Merrill and the Dalish in general, I am curious as your the strong opposition to the rival path.

Blood magic was only used to cleanse the initial shard; there's no indication Merrill was using it elsewhere in the construction of the Eluvian. I suspect you fell for Marethari's crap.

 

And what questions do you have about my reasons that I haven't already stated?

[The Elder King]

I blamed Merrill, if I recall. Which I roleplayed as Hawke lying to avoid killing them. I doubt Merrill wanted me to kill them.