19658 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

I tried this, but failed to get it to work properly, so was forced back into the original choice.

 

Once you come down the mountain, you need to move your protagonist towards the cave where Zevran originally was (for "A Murder of Crows"), and you'll need to manually move everyone else there, too. Don't forget to turn off your Mabari Hound. You'll only face a few antagonists, and nobody else should come after you.

 

Her point is that the narrative framing of it is racist, not necessarily Hawke.

 

The way Merrill phrases it, it's about how her children would be human, since couplings with humans lead to human children.

[Dean_the_Young]

 

Her point is that the narrative framing of it is racist, not necessarily Hawke.

That's not how racism works.

 

The narrative framing would only be racist if the motivation for Hawke being right and Merrill being wrong was because Hawke was a human and Merrill an elf. Which isn't the case. Hawke the Human can be just as wrong as Merrill, and every other elf with a viewpoint on the subject is opposed to Merrill.

 

Her point is itself an irrational race-based argument, since it's an argument that ignores any other rational or logical reasoning for an inherently illogical race-based deligitimization of Hawke's ability to object. If Hawke objects, the narrative becomes racist: there is no logical cause and effect between these just because Hawke herself is human.

[Xilizhra]

Once you come down the mountain, you need to move your protagonist towards the cave where Zevran originally was (for "A Murder of Crows"), and you'll need to manually move everyone else there, too. Don't forget to turn off your Mabari Hound. You'll only face a few antagonists, and nobody else should come after you.

Oh, then I just went the wrong way. Interesting. I'll give that a shot next time, then.

 

 

The way Merrill phrases it, it's about how her children would be human, since couplings with humans lead to human children.

We may have been talking about different things there.

[LobselVith8]

We may have been talking about different things there.

 

I didn't refresh my page, so I thought your retort was in reference to what I wrote.

[The Hierophant]

This devolved into a Merrill debate and there's no comment from The Ethereal Writer Redux?

the madness...

[xAmilli0n]

Blood magic was only used to cleanse the initial shard; there's no indication Merrill was using it elsewhere in the construction of the Eluvian. I suspect you fell for Marethari's crap.

 

At the point where you have to deal with the arulin'holm, you can either take for Marethari's word or Merrill's (if I remember correctly, though things so far suggest I don't ).

 

And what questions do you have about my reasons that I haven't already stated?

 

No questions. I guess I should of said that I find it curious.

[Xilizhra]

At the point where you have to deal with the arulin'holm, you can either take for Marethari's word or Merrill's (if I remember correctly, though things so far suggest I don't ).

Well, consider which one actually bothered learning about the Eluvians.

 

 

No questions. I guess I should of said that I find it curious.

See Faerunner's previous post for an eloquent summation of most of my reasons.

[LobselVith8]

At the point where you have to deal with the arulin'holm, you can either take for Marethari's word or Merrill's (if I remember correctly, though things so far suggest I don't ).

 

Even if Hawke wasn't aware of the extensive research Merrill had done into researching the Eluvians, all Hawke would have to do to question the validity of Marethari's statement is see that Merrill isn't a ghoul. Merrill isn't tainted, despite handling the shard for years now. Hawke has seen how quickly the taint can act, from Ser Wesley having to be euthanized outside Lothering and (possibly) Hawke's sibling in the Deep Roads contracting the taint.

[draken-heart]

Except it's not just the demon. Her clansmen act like repairing the mirror itself is what's bad. Marethari and her clansmen constantly tell her things like "the mirror was lost to history for a reason, so it's better to keep it buried." (Same could be said for all Elven artifacts.) They tell her the mirror killed Tamlen (and possibly tainted Mahariel), and that by messing with the mirror she's heading down the same fate as them. (Never mind they were killed because of the taint in the mirror, not the mirror itself.) Hawke and other characters imply that the mirror itself is dangerous, Merrill is messing with powers beyond her control, she doesn't know what she's doing, you have to save her from messing with things she doesn't understand, etc. Marethari very unwillingly hands over a tool Merrill needs to keep repairing the mirror, gives it to Hawke, and a rivalmancing Hawke can withhold it from her.

 

That's not just about the demon. The rivalmance acts like the mirror itself is just as dangerous as communicating with a demon or practicing blood magic, and that in all situations Merrill doesn't know what she's doing, is messing with powers and technologies beyond her understanding, etc. 

 

And yet, the characters who treat it as dangerous do so for faulty reasons. Her clansmen fear it because it killed Tamlen and tainted Marahariel. Merrill knows it's just the taint in the mirror that does it. She removes the taint, the mirror is no longer dangerous. She did extensive research on the Eluvian before she got to work, Marethari and the others didn't. They didn't even want to look into it. They just slapped huge "DANGER!" and "FORBIDDEN!" labels on it at first sight, and refused to hear her out, or do any further research themselves to see if their fear had any merit.

 

And of course, HAWKE knows even less about elven history, artifacts, technology, etc. than Merrill. I daresay Hawke hasn't done ANY research on such things when meeting Merrill, yet Hawke knows about the risks and dangers better than Merrill does? Hawke knows what she can handle better than she does despite knowing even less about the subject matter than she does?

 

I think that Merrill's rivalry is more about opening her eyes to the consequences of her action (The fact that fixing the mirror cost her her clan, as they are either dead or will kill her if she returns to them). same as with other companions. As well as friendship is helping her with the zeroing in on this one issue, as if it would fix all her problems getting the mirror working.

[Chernaya]

This devolved into a Merrill debate and there's no comment from The Ethereal Writer Redux?

the madness...

 

It's all my fault, I brought it up originally. x(

 

I did learn some things, though, which is nice. But hey, my Hawke didn't know all of these details. :c

[Xilizhra]

I think that Merrill's rivalry is more about opening her eyes to the consequences of her action (The fact that fixing the mirror cost her her clan, as they are either dead or will kill her if she returns to them). same as with other companions. As well as friendship is helping her with the zeroing in on this one issue, as if it would fix all her problems getting the mirror working.

No it's not. The final friendship dialogue utterly repudiates this, making it fairly clear that it's impossible to help people without their consent. The friendship path ends with getting Merrill to accept that, while it was a good and noble effort, it just wasn't meant to be for her clan at this time, and that Merrill can find her own path independent of them.

[Reznore57]

Even if Hawke wasn't aware of the extensive research Merrill had done into researching the Eluvians, all Hawke would have to do to question the validity of Marethari's statement is see that Merrill isn't a ghoul. Merrill isn't tainted, despite handling the shard for years now. Hawke has seen how quickly the taint can act, from Ser Wesley having to be euthanized outside Lothering and (possibly) Hawke's sibling in the Deep Roads contracting the taint.

 

What about freaking out about what may be on the other side of the mirror.

And since when something like a piece of furniture can get tainted ?(edit well the earth can get tainted so this question is stupid)Spread the taint to someone , and stay tainted for a bloody long time?

[Ryzaki]

Oh man people are still going on about Merrill being "broken" on the rivalry path?

 

lol just...lol

 

You clearly have never played it if you feel that's remotely the case. Merill's not a fragile little flower that breaks down because someone disagrees with her.

[draken-heart]

No it's not. The final friendship dialogue utterly repudiates this, making it fairly clear that it's impossible to help people without their consent. The friendship path ends with getting Merrill to accept that, while it was a good and noble effort, it just wasn't meant to be for her clan at this time, and that Merrill can find her own path independent of them.

 

And the rivalry path is getting her to see that she was too focused on the past to see the future.

[LobselVith8]

I think that Merrill's rivalry is more about opening her eyes to the consequences of her action (The fact that fixing the mirror cost her her clan, as they are either dead or will kill her if she returns to them). same as with other companions. As well as friendship is helping her with the zeroing in on this one issue, as if it would fix all her problems getting the mirror working.

 

Merrill comments on Hawke's support in her endeavors when the two are friends, as opposed to rivals. As a friend, Hawke can tell her that Marethari was wrong, can defend Merrill against the clan, can support her when she realizes that the Eluvian will remain inert, and agree with her own conclusion that she should move on to something else.

[Amirit]

Total offtopic to Merrill\Hawke discussion but it belongs to that topic.

 

An interesting note: since Cullen was written by Brianne Battye, then we can be almost 100% sure Scribegirl is romancable. Why? Because it was said long ago, that J. Hepler wrote a romance in DAI before she left BioWare.

 

Since it was Hepler who wrote Cullen for DAO (and DA2?) I naturally assumed that was her "last romance" in DAI. Yet, Cullen has a different writer now and the only companion\adviser we know nothing about is Scribegirl. Looks like she is the one written by Hepler and if this is the case - she is a romance option. 

[xAmilli0n]

Clearly I am among those more knowledgeable than I on the subject of DA2, Merrill, and the Dalish.  Thanks for the replies.  You've all made your stance clear.

 

I really don't have anything else to add other than, I liked the rivalry path, and during an honest, RP playthrough where I wasn't intentionally being a jerk to Merrill (really I just didn't want her working on the mirror given the information I had), I thought the rival romance path worked out splendidly, if not very dramatically.  That was the story I cared to create. 

 

I hope DA:I lets us continue to do so.  That's all.

 

Cheers.

[TheJediSaint]

That's not how racism works.

 

The narrative framing would only be racist if the motivation for Hawke being right and Merrill being wrong was because Hawke was a human and Merrill an elf. Which isn't the case. Hawke the Human can be just as wrong as Merrill, and every other elf with a viewpoint on the subject is opposed to Merrill.

 

Her point is itself an irrational race-based argument, since it's an argument that ignores any other rational or logical reasoning for an inherently illogical race-based deligitimization of Hawke's ability to object. If Hawke objects, the narrative becomes racist: there is no logical cause and effect between these just because Hawke herself is human.

 

I would like to point out that when push comes to shove, Merrill is the one who breaks out the racial slurs.  

[Reznore57]

An interesting note: since Cullen was written by Brianne Battye, then we can be almost 100% sure Scribegirl is romancable. Why? Because it was said long ago, that J. Hepler wrote a romance in DAI before she left BioWare.

 

Since it was Hepler who wrote Cullen for DAO (and DA2?) I naturally assumed that was her "last romance" in DAI. Yet, Cullen has a different writer now and the only companion\adviser we know nothing about is Scribegirl. Looks like she is the one written by Hepler and if this is the case - she is a romance option. 

 

J. hepler was writing Cassandra.

[Xilizhra]

And the rivalry path is getting her to see that she was too focused on the past to see the future.

Which is both wrong and offensive in its implementation, as how I see it.

[The Elder King]

Total offtopic to Merrill\Hawke discussion but it belongs to that topic.
 
An interesting note: since Cullen was written by Brianne Battye, then we can be almost 100% sure Scribegirl is romancable. Why? Because it was said long ago, that J. Hepler wrote a romance in DAI before she left BioWare.
 
Since it was Hepler who wrote Cullen for DAO (and DA2?) I naturally assumed that was her "last romance" in DAI. Yet, Cullen has a different writer now and the only companion\adviser we know nothing about is Scribegirl. Looks like she is the one written by Hepler and if this is the case - she is a romance option.

Jennifer wrote Cassandra before leaving Bioware, which is a LI. Gaider took over her and rewrote her.

[LobselVith8]

What about freaking out about what may be on the other side of the mirror.

 

Marethari claims Merrill's efforts will bring back the taint, and she argues the Eluvians should simply remain buried. Based on what she said, the Keeper doesn't seem to have done any research into the Eluvians.

 

And since when something like a piece of furniture can get tainted ?(edit well the earth can get tainted so this question is stupid)Spread the taint to someone , and stay tainted for a bloody long time?

 

The darkspawn corrupt anything they come into contact with; trees, animals, staves, the earth. It's not surprising that the Eluvians were corrupted when the darkspawn encountered them. That's what makes the darkspawn so dangerous.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Total offtopic to Merrill\Hawke discussion but it belongs to that topic.

 

An interesting note: since Cullen was written by Brianne Battye, then we can be almost 100% sure Scribegirl is romancable. Why? Because it was said long ago, that J. Hepler wrote a romance in DAI before she left BioWare.

 

Since it was Hepler who wrote Cullen for DAO (and DA2?) I naturally assumed that was her "last romance" in DAI. Yet, Cullen has a different writer now and the only companion\adviser we know nothing about is Scribegirl. Looks like she is the one written by Hepler and if this is the case - she is a romance option. 

I think they probably gave Cullen a new writer after she left. Most people were assuming Gaider before we found out he wrote Dorian instead of Cole. Hepler left early in, so they probably needed someone to do re-writes as needed.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I knew Hepler was supposed to write Cassandra, but was she only supposed to write Cassandra? I just assumed it was both Cassandra and Cullen, since she had multiples in DA2.