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The darkspawn corrupt anything they come into contact with; trees, animals, staves, the earth. It's not surprising that the Eluvians were corrupted when the darkspawn encountered them. That's what makes the darkspawn so dangerous.
But there is no darksawn around before someone touch the mirror.And we know people can travel through an Eluvian.
Something Merrill doesn't seem aware of , as far as I can tell.
She thinks it's mainly a communication device.It's not the case.
Clearly I am among those more knowledgeable than I on the subject of DA2, Merrill, and the Dalish. Thanks for the replies. You've all made your stance clear.
I really don't have anything else to add other than, I liked the rivalry path, and during an honest, RP playthrough where I wasn't intentionally being a jerk to Merrill (really I just didn't want her working on the mirror given the information I had), I thought the rival romance path worked out splendidly, if not very dramatically. That was the story I cared to create.
I hope DA:I lets us continue to do so. That's all.
Cheers.
It did. And honestly I did not see the "human knows best" factor because frankly most of the people disagreeing with Merrill are elves. So I'm baffled as to where people are getting that from.
Flemeth put it best. "No path is darker than when your eyes are shut." Merrill went into Merrill knows best attitude and somehow thought the Eluvian (when she doesn't even know what the damn thing will do) will somehow save her people more than her doing her job. It's rather insane watching her keep arguing it'll help her people and never explain how exactly other than knowledge for reasons. Rival Hawke just had a permanent facepalm.
"This'll help!"
"Uh..how?"
"CAUSE IT'LL HELP."
"..."
I would like to point out that when push comes to shove, Merrill is the one who breaks out the racial slurs.
XD most of the dalish are pretty racist so it came as no surprise. But it was lulzy.
But there is no darksawn around before someone touch the mirror.And we know people can travel through an Eluvian.
Something Merrill doesn't seem aware of , as far as I can tell.
She thinks it's mainly a communication device.It's not the case.
The taint can remain long after the darkspawn have shown up; you can find a corrupted staff in the Magi Origin that was warped by the taint. Also, Tevinter used the Eluvians for communication; that's all the human mages were capable of utilizing the elven devices for, and it's why Duncan mistakes them for Tevinter objects.
It did. And honestly I did not see the "human knows best" factor because frankly most of the people disagreeing with Merrill are elves. So I'm baffled as to where people are getting that from.
Flemeth put it best. "No path is darker than when your eyes are shut." Merrill went into Merrill knows best attitude and somehow thought the Eluvian (when she doesn't even know what the damn thing will do) will somehow save her people more than her doing her job. It's rather insane watching her keep arguing it'll help her people and never explain how exactly other than knowledge for reasons. Rival Hawke just had a permanent facepalm.
"This'll help!"
"Uh..how?"
"CAUSE IT'LL HELP."
"..."
Who also know nothing whatsoever. In any case, Flemeth never tells her not to proceed with the Eluvian, just to be careful with it. And Hawke has no place stopping her.
Jennifer wrote Cassandra before leaving Bioware, which is a LI. Gaider took over her and rewrote her.
Any link? Because at the same time it was said the Gaider wrote 2 characters and 2 romances - and this is what we see here - Cass and Dorian, both LI. I had an impression that in case of Hepler they said "she finished her job before she left". If someone had to re-do her job, it's not really a "finished job", is it?
Which is both wrong and offensive in its implementation, as how I see it.
Merrill's whole story is about her thinking she knew better than everyone else, and friendship is helping in that delusion, and rivalry and trying to stop her from getting hurt, and Hawke even says himself/herself that he/she is simply protecting Merrill. Knowing what happened at the Circle in Ferelden, no matter how well prepared she THINKS she is, she cannot prepare for every situation and has blinded herself to the facts around her until she sees Marethari's dead body.
Who also know nothing whatsoever. In any case, Flemeth never tells her not to proceed with the Eluvian, just to be careful with it. And Hawke has no place stopping her.
He doesn't. But in the setting Hawke has seen people fall under a demon's thrall (including Merill). So yeah Hawke thinking going with the demon's advice being a bad idea isn't out of there. Which she wasn't. Really? Hawke has no place stopping Merrill from endangering the people in Kirkwall? I suppose you feel Hawke has no right from stopping the templars from doing their jobs capturing rogue mages? If Merrill had been doing it on the wounded coast then yeah I'd agree with you. Instead she choose a heavily populated yet vulnerable place of the city if the worst had come to the worst she'd endangered them. She had no right to speak for their lives.
It did. And honestly I did not see the "human knows best" factor because frankly most of the people disagreeing with Merrill are elves. So I'm baffled as to where people are getting that from.
Hawke opposing Merrill about something he didn't know about is why some of us addressed it invoked that trope, and since Merrill isn't a ghoul, she clearly isn't working with a tainted shard as Marethari claims (which is also what she told the other members of the Sabrae Clan, which is why Pol ran in terror from her).
Flemeth put it best. "No path is darker than when your eyes are shut." Merrill went into Merrill knows best attitude and somehow thought the Eluvian (when she doesn't even know what the damn thing will do) will somehow save her people more than her doing her job. It's rather insane watching her keep arguing it'll help her people and never explain how exactly other than knowledge for reasons. Rival Hawke just had a permanent facepalm.
Considering Merrill researched the lore on the Eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard, she is apparently the most informed on the subject in the entire narrative of Dragon Age II. If Merrill's research leads her to believe it can benefit the People, I don't see how Hawke is the one to argue, given that he's a human who knows virtually nothing about elven culture or technology.
Merrill's whole story is about her thinking she knew better than everyone else, and friendship is helping in that delusion, and rivalry and trying to stop her from getting hurt, and Hawke even says himself/herself that he/she is simply protecting Merrill. Knowing what happened at the Circle in Ferelden, no matter how well prepared she THINKS she is, she cannot prepare for every situation and has blinded herself to the facts around her until she sees Marethari's dead body.
Well, regarding the Eluvian, she does in fact know more than anyone else in the story. Also, friendship has no opinion on the matter other than A. not being a dick to mages, and B. actually ensuring that Marethari holds up her end of the bargain. Friendship is actually an extremely neutral position in and of itself, whereas rivalry goes out of its way to interfere yet is wholly ineffectual at doing so, while being controlling and creepy at the same time.
He doesn't. But in the setting Hawke has seen people fall under a demon's thrall (including Merill). So yeah Hawke thinking going with the demon's advice being a bad idea isn't out of there. Which she wasn't. Really? Hawke has no place stopping Merrill from endangering the people in Kirkwall? I suppose you feel Hawke has no right from stopping the templars from doing their jobs capturing rogue mages? If Merrill had been doing it on the wounded coast then yeah I'd agree with you. Instead she choose a heavily populated yet vulnerable place of the city if the worst had come to the worst she'd endangered them. She had no right to speak for their lives.
Repairing the Eluvian has nothing at all to do with demons until Act 3, so blaming Merrill's work on it in Act 2 isn't just metagaming, but factually wrong. And Merrill was never endangering anyone in the slightest; the Eluvian doesn't open into the Fade and Anders would have mentioned it had the taint been present. Rivalry follows only invented problems.
Well, regarding the Eluvian, she does in fact know more than anyone else in the story. Also, friendship has no opinion on the matter other than A. not being a dick to mages, and B. actually ensuring that Marethari holds up her end of the bargain. Friendship is actually an extremely neutral position in and of itself, whereas rivalry goes out of its way to interfere yet is wholly ineffectual at doing so, while being controlling and creepy at the same time.
Yet she blinded herself to everything else. Everyone, even Hawke (if rivalry), tried to get her to understand that fixing the Eluvian, even if it was a good idea, was an addiction.
Considering Merrill researched the lore on the Eluvians and extrapolated information from the shard, she is apparently the most informed on the subject in the entire narrative of Dragon Age II. If Merrill's research leads her to believe it can benefit the People, I don't see how Hawke is the one to argue, given that he's a human who knows virtually nothing about elven culture or technology.
Lob you keep saying this like she actually knows anything. Pretty sure if she knew what the heck the thing would do she'd bring it up as a counterpoint to Hawke. She never does so. Someone knowing more than someone about something else hardly makes them knowledgable on the subject. She admits it's fragments of lore.
Saying "well you don't know anything about the technology!" isn't a strong counterpoint when you know about the things she's using to fuel said technology (demons and bloodmagic which are bad ideas 99% of the time and you've seen her fall under the thrall of a pride demon before. Ironically the same demon she's dealing with now) and she doesn't know enough about the tech to say what it'll even do.
Yet she blinded herself to everything else. Everyone, even Hawke (if rivalry), tried to get her to understand that fixing the Eluvian, even if it was a good idea, was an addiction.
No, Hawke doesn't. That never comes up at all; there are no hints of obsession until Act 3, which is, again, after the decision is already made.
http://forum.bioware...bioware=1&bwp=1Any link? Because at the same time it was said the Gaider wrote 2 characters and 2 romances - and this is what we see here - Cass and Dorian, both LI. I had an impression that in case of Hepler they said "she finished her job before she left". If someone had to re-do her job, it's not really a "finished job", is it?
Guest_Faerunner_*
I think that Merrill's rivalry is more about opening her eyes to the consequences of her action (The fact that fixing the mirror cost her her clan, as they are either dead or will kill her if she returns to them). same as with other companions. As well as friendship is helping her with the zeroing in on this one issue, as if it would fix all her problems getting the mirror working.
No, I've actually watched quite a few rivalmance videos with all rivalmance options explored. The rivalry path is about being massively cruel to Merrill at every turn (emotional abuse at its finest), and/or constantly trying to undermine and sabotage her attempts to fix the mirror long before the "consequences" (her people trying to undermine and sabotage her) ever transpire. Figuring that Merrill is messing with powers beyond her understanding even though Hawke knows little to nothing about the eluvian, but Hawke must be right because s/he's able to see things "objectively" while Merrill is too emotionally invested and unable to see things clearly because she's too close to her own culture, does not make Hawke right in my book.
Nothing says an emotionally healthy relationship built on trust, respect, communication, and common values quite like not trusting that Merrill knows what she's doing (what she's researched and studied extensively on), not respecting her desire to help her people and fix an artifact that can accomplish it nor respecting her right to make decisions like an adult, not communicating so much as telling her she's wrong and should stop at every turn and even just flat out refuse to give her a tool she needs at one point, and telling her that her core values in helping her people, restoring parts her people's history, and reviving an artifact that can help accomplish that are wrong, she should stop, she should focus on something else, etc.
Any link? Because at the same time it was said the Gaider wrote 2 characters and 2 romances - and this is what we see here - Cass and Dorian, both LI. I had an impression that in case of Hepler they said "she finished her job before she left". If someone had to re-do her job, it's not really a "finished job", is it?
Gaider wrote 2 characters and 2 romances: Cassandra and Dorian. He said that after he got his hand on Cassandra.
Helper left end of July last year and Gaider re-wrote Cassandra in the months after that (starting in August). The re-write could be because they changed stuff in the narrative that required her to be rewritten (in part) or after review it was decided that the exiting Cassandra didn't really fit what they needed (it happened to Varric for DA2).
XD most of the dalish are pretty racist so it came as no surprise. But it was lulzy.
I dislike the disingenuous tone of using the behavior of some for the entirety of the Dalish. Historically, we know one of the clans raised and trained a human child who was abandoned by her parents, who grew up to be Aveline, changing the lives of women across Thedas forever. The clans signed a treaty with the Wardens to aid humanity during the Blight. We also have the Dalish in Zathrian's clan coming to trust an outsider - The Warden - if the protagonist earns their trust. It's also not isolated to that clan - Velanna's clan remarks positively when they see her walking in the company of humans.
As for Merrill, we see her desire to defend human mages from the templars, and she's even willing to give her life for the purpose of defending the Circle of Kirkwall against Meredith's Right of Annulment. Merrill can fall in love with a human named Hawke.
Yet she blinded herself to everything else. Everyone, even Hawke (if rivalry), tried to get her to understand that fixing the Eluvian, even if it was a good idea, was an addiction.
No, I've actually watched quite a few rivalmance videos with all rivalmance options explored. The rivalry path is about being massively cruel to Merrill at every turn (emotional abuse at its finest), and/or constantly trying to undermine and sabotage her attempts to fix the mirror long before the "consequences" (her people trying to undermine and sabotage her) ever transpire. Figuring that Merrill is messing with powers beyond her understanding even though Hawke knows little to nothing about the eluvian, but Hawke must be right because s/he's able to see things "objectively" while Merrill is too emotionally invested and unable to see things clearly because she's too close to her own culture, does not make Hawke right in my book.
Nothing says an emotionally healthy relationship built on trust, respect, communication, and common values quite like not trusting that Merrill knows what she's doing (what she's researched and studied extensively on), not respecting her desire to help her people and fix an artifact that can accomplish it nor respecting her right to make decisions like an adult, not communicating so much as telling her she's wrong and should stop at every turn and even just flat out refuse to give her a tool she needs at one point, and telling her that her core values in helping her people, restoring parts her people's history, and reviving an artifact that can help accomplish that are wrong, she should stop, she should focus on something else, etc.
And nothing says that either quite like letting someone acting like a teenager when adults try to talk her out of blinding herself to anything else do what she does.
Lob you keep saying this like she actually knows anything. Pretty sure if she knew what the heck the thing would do she'd bring it up as a counterpoint to Hawke. She never does so. Someone knowing more than someone about something else hardly makes them knowledgable on the subject. She admits it's fragments of lore.
Saying "well you don't know anything about the technology!" isn't a strong counterpoint when you know about the things she's using to fuel said technology (demons and bloodmagic which are bad ideas 99% of the time and you've seen her fall under the thrall of a pride demon before. Ironically the same demon she's dealing with now) and she doesn't know enough about the tech to say what it'll even do.
It's an instant communications device. Sure, it won't bring back Arlathan by itself, but I don't think you can deny the vast benefits to virtually everything logistics-related that improved communications technology has had on our own society; it could be incredibly useful for a myriad of reasons, and they can apparently be built by hand from single pieces, so copying them shouldn't be enormously difficult.
I dislike the disingenuous tone of using the behavior of some for the entirety of the Dalish. Historically, we know one of the clans raised and trained a human child who was abandoned by her parents, who grew up to be Aveline, changing the lives of women across Thedas forever. The clans signed a treaty with the Wardens to aid humanity during the Blight. We also have the Dalish in Zathrian's clan coming to trust an outsider - The Warden - if the protagonist earns their trust. It's also not isolated to that clan - Velanna's clan remarks positively when they see her walking in the company of humans.
As for Merrill, we see her desire to defend human mages from the templars, and she's even willing to give her life for the purpose of defending the Circle of Kirkwall against Meredith's Right of Annulment. Merrill can fall in love with a human named Hawke.
Yeah when pretty much a good faction of dalish in every game we've seen sneers Shem and flat ears you're not going to get me not to use that behavior as a baseline. That's what the majority of them we've seen do.
Are you suggesting that there's not levels of racism? All racism isn't as simple as "I HATE ALL YOUR KIND GO DIE IN A FIRE."
And nothing says that either quite like letting someone acting like a teenager when adults try to talk her out of blinding herself to anything else do what she does.
Thus far, you've been unable to prove any of this statement. Marethari's been engaged in actively attacking her and then tries to double-cross her, and Hawke's only input on the situation is to prevent the double-cross and tell Merrill to be careful. How is this in any way destructive enabling?
It's an instant communications device. Sure, it won't bring back Arlathan by itself, but I don't think you can deny the vast benefits to virtually everything logistics-related that improved communications technology has had on our own society; it could be incredibly useful for a myriad of reasons, and they can apparently be built by hand from single pieces, so copying them shouldn't be enormously difficult.
She doesn't know that.
She's trying to fix something and doesn't know what it does or even how it'll help. This is my issue. This has always been my issue. And she's relying on a demon's aid to do this. There's plenty wrong with what she's doing. You don't say "this'll help." while not knowing what the hell X does. If Merrill had said "this'll help because X, Y and Z." and "That's why I'm taking the risk." then yeah. It'd be a hell of a lot easier to friend her. She doesn't.
If she had said that to Hawke yeah I'd have a harder time rivaling her (though I probably still would based on the fact that she could've done that on the wounded coast where if worst came to worst the only person who's face it could've blown up in would've been her on.) But it's Merrill knows best when Merrill doesn't even know WTF she's doing.
Thus far, you've been unable to prove any of this statement. Marethari's been engaged in actively attacking her and then tries to double-cross her, and Hawke's only input on the situation is to prevent the double-cross and tell Merrill to be careful. How is this in any way destructive enabling?
By simply not being honest about what focusing on the mirror did "for her".
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