19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Chernaya]

I have an Anders rivalmance mage file I need to finish before DA:I comes out... I was always curious on all the interesting topics that would come from that. 

[Ryzaki]

That conversation is why I usually rivalmance him though I end up getting too much approval and have to take ti down abusive lane to keep the rivalry up which makes me feel icky all over.  One of the reason's I usually do a rivalmance with Anders is because Hawke and him can actually have a conversation where Hawkes telling him that they support his goal but not his methods and that he's only proving the templars right.

 

It's really easy to completely max Anders' rivalry in act 1 I don't get the have to be abusive for his rivalry thing. I always have him maxed or damn close to it before act 1 closes. If you recruit him first then do all the pro templar solutions to quests he will be maxed right before you go to the deep roads. Then there's zero worry about having to pick the douche responses for that extra 5 rivalry points.

 

Though yeah. I love that and the justice assuming direct control conversation.

[Maria Caliban]

Agreed. It'd make the "well it was for better characterization!" ring hollow too.

BioWare has yet to use characterization as a defense for race-gating. The only thing we've heard is that it's a resource issue.

Mark talked about having 'set sexualities' as a characterization issue.

[SnakeCode]

The pro-circle options are the douche responses?

[Reaverwind]

It's really easy to completely max Anders' rivalry in act 1 I don't get the have to be abusive for his rivalry thing. I always have him maxed or damn close to it before act 1 closes. If you recruit him first then do all the pro templar solutions to quests he will be maxed right before you go to the deep roads. Then there's zero worry about having to pick the douche responses for that extra 5 rivalry points.

 

Though yeah. I love that and the justice assuming direct control conversation.

 

You don't even have to play pro-templar to rival him - which can lead to a dissonant situation where he yells at you for siding with the templars (when you haven't) due to his dislike of you - one of the reasons I found the rival system to be absurd.

[Ryzaki]

BioWare has yet to use characterization as a defense for race-gating. The only thing we've heard is that it's a resource issue.

Mark talked about having 'set sexualities' as a characterization issue.

 

Ah true.

 

Yeah for that sake as well I'm hoping the choices Quizzy makes are actually fully capable of ending the romances and it's not just limited to heartbreak options.

[Cat Fancy]

I agree that it would make sense to have more deal-breakers. The devs could probably solve many of these problems by removing some instances of random, gratuitous evil (like sacrificing those elf slaves in Origins). BUT if they aren't willing to do this and their resources are limited, I'm fine if the main character's sociopathy is ignored because they'd rather work on something else.

And I think that if we could romance a given character despite being (in their eyes) a horrible person, while on another toon who represents everything they believe in and who actually gets along well with them, we wouldn't be able to romance them because of our race.

I could greatly admire someone who looked like a qunari, but I would probably still have qualms about dating them. I don't mind characters having reservations about dating members of other species.

[Ryzaki]

You don't even have to play pro-templar to rival him - which can lead to a dissonant situation where he yells at you for siding with the templars (when you haven't) due to his dislike of you - one of the reasons I found the rival system to be absurd.

 

Yeah Anders rivalry shouldn't have been tied to two different issues (Justice and mages/templars) while yeah I was more inclined to be on the no side to both I have plenty of mages that were pro mage freedom that though Anders merging with Justice was the stupidest thing he could've done. The game thinking since you were pro one you were pro the other or vice versa was dumb.

[HuldraDancer]

It's really easy to completely max Anders' rivalry in act 1 I don't get the have to be abusive for his rivalry thing. I always have him maxed or damn close to it before act 1 closes. If you recruit him first then do all the pro templar solutions to quests he will be maxed right before you go to the deep roads. Then there's zero worry about having to pick the douche responses for that extra 5 rivalry points.

 

Though yeah. I love that and the justice assuming direct control conversation.

 

Always got friendship points from flirting with him ^^; Though I am getting better at doing the rivalary without taking it down abusive lane, shame it's with a Hawke that's going to kill him in the end ^^; T^T I usually take him along for the pro templar choices just wish I hadn't dug a hole by getting so much friendship with flirting with him the first time I tried it. Though I just changed it around to be a Hawke that was merely using him though it didn't make me feel any better to be honest^^;

[Ryzaki]

Always got friendship points from flirting with him ^^; Though I am getting better at doing the rivalary without taking it down abusive lane, shame it's with a Hawke that's going to kill him in the end ^^; T^T I usually take him along for the pro templar choices just wish I hadn't dug a hole by getting so much friendship with flirting with him the first time I tried it. Though I just changed it around to be a Hawke that was merely using him though it didn't make me feel any better to be honest^^;

 

Yeah I save my flirts for act 2. Hitting on him in act 1 is a case of too soon and it's awkward for me and my Hawkes (who are usually aggressive) aren't liable to try to cozy up to an abomination they don't know from adam. Good looking or not. (That and I usually have them hitting on Fenris anyway XD) Only rivalmance I had trouble with was Isabela. You have to take a 15 point friendship hit and there's no avoiding it it hurts so hard.

 

I imagine it wouldn't XD

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think the issue with characters breaking off a romance (or just characters leaving/hating you, generally) due to choice is just that it's a delicate balance. I don't think they've always gotten it spot on with how disapproval should be distributed and what the breaking points should be for characters. Sometimes they make characters (this is especially in DA2) approve of things that just make them look flatly ridiculous in an attempt to hammer in their one character trait and sometimes they crank up the disapproval for things that I think seem ridiculous (Anders, when you don't want to bang him, for example). I can't believe how easily Fenris takes you having an elven slave girl, as another example of wonky approval. I think they need to put more thought into the approval system and breaking points, and I think they need to make them count for more than they have in the past.

[HuldraDancer]

Yeah I save my flirts for act 2. Hitting on him in act 1 is a case of too soon and it's awkward for me and my Hawkes (who are usually aggressive) aren't liable to try to cozy up to an abomination they don't know from adam. Good looking or not. (That and I usually have them hitting on Fenris anyway XD) Only rivalmance I had trouble with was Isabela. You have to take a 15 point friendship hit and there's no avoiding it it hurts so hard.

 

I imagine it wouldn't XD

 

I was rolling a pretty shallow Hawke at the time she was flirting with any good looking guy she could or men in power. She was like a flirty diplomatic Hawke. Never tried to rivalmance her before. Just Anders and Merrill and I only did the Merrill rivalmance once  

 

Still being able to have a conversation with an LI who you are disagreeing with like the one you could have with Anders (even though you don't have to be in a romance to have it with him)  would be kind of nice to see, cause you can approve of someones cause but not about how they go about it. Heck most of my reasons for doing things in DAO usually aren't available as an option so thank the Maker for that gift spamming. (yeah yeah I know they can't account for every reason though and with the wheel I fear we'll get even less options for our dialog as well but I'm getting off the topic of the thread aren't I? Sorry^^; )

[Cat Fancy]

sometimes they crank up the disapproval for things that I think seem ridiculous (Anders, when you don't want to bang him, for example). 

I think this is a plausible human reaction. I'm not saying it's attractive, of course. Nothing about Anders was attractive! just kidding fanders

[GVulture]

It's really easy to completely max Anders' rivalry in act 1 I don't get the have to be abusive for his rivalry thing. I always have him maxed or damn close to it before act 1 closes. If you recruit him first then do all the pro templar solutions to quests he will be maxed right before you go to the deep roads. Then there's zero worry about having to pick the douche responses for that extra 5 rivalry points.

 

Though yeah. I love that and the justice assuming direct control conversation.

This. In my last DA2 PT, I rivaled Merrill and Anders just by taking Pro-Templar (or taking Fenris' side in a lot of things) and being anti-blood magic/demonic treatise.

[Ryzaki]

I was rolling a pretty shallow Hawke at the time she was flirting with any good looking guy she could or men in power. She was like a flirty diplomatic Hawke. Never tried to rivalmance her before. Just Anders and Merrill and I only did the Merrill rivalmance once

 

Still being able to have a conversation with an LI who you are disagreeing with like the one you could have with Anders (even though you don't have to be in a romance to have it with him)  would be kind of nice to see, cause you can approve of someones cause but not about how they go about it. Heck most of my reasons for doing things in DAO usually aren't available as an option so thank the Maker for that gift spamming. (yeah yeah I know they can't account for every reason though and with the wheel I fear we'll get even less options for our dialog as well but I'm getting off the topic of the thread aren't I? Sorry^^; )

 

Ah.

 

Yeah it is nice how those conversations where there. Like the poison conversation with Fenris or the can't you see you're losing everything conversation with Merrill.

 

Agreed. There were times in DAO I kind of went "really? I can't explain?" but ah well. And yeah I feel your fear with the wheel. It became reality in ME3 for me D:

 

Pfft it's romance related and DAI related.

[Wulfram]

BioWare has yet to use characterization as a defense for race-gating. The only thing we've heard is that it's a resource issue.
 

 

Which is one thing that concerns me.  Ultimately it is a characterisation issue, so having it driven by resources is less than ideal.

[Ryzaki]

I think this is a plausible human reaction. I'm not saying it's attractive, of course. Nothing about Anders was attractive! just kidding fanders

 

Yep. Fenris made sense to me too. He doesn't like slavery but he'd realize that she was pretty defenseless on her own and even if Hawke's a douchebag mcgee and takes her as a slave she wouldn't be treated much differently than a servant. (which she isn't).

[Maria Caliban]

I can't feel I can properly complain about romances until they give us a chart.

[GVulture]

Which is one thing that concerns me.  Ultimately it is a characterisation issue, so having it driven by resources is less than ideal.

Well... Varric did say that he doesn't like humans. And Iron Bull will will sleep with anything he can't break... so... that sounds like characterization to me.

[GVulture]

You don't even have to play pro-templar to rival him - which can lead to a dissonant situation where he yells at you for siding with the templars (when you haven't) due to his dislike of you - one of the reasons I found the rival system to be absurd.

Does he say that you keep siding with the Templars? Or that he expected that you would understand him instead. I can't remember how Anders behaved in my rival playthough (not romanced).

[HuldraDancer]

Ah.

 

Yeah it is nice how those conversations where there. Like the poison conversation with Fenris or the can't you see you're losing everything conversation with Merrill.

 

Agreed. There were times in DAO I kind of went "really? I can't explain?" but ah well. And yeah I feel your fear with the wheel. It became reality in ME3 for me D:

 

Pfft it's romance related and DAI related.

 

I'd like some more conversations like that but I get that they may be hard to balance just nice to be able to disagree with your LI but not completely, like my rouge Hawke being worried about Merrill's safety and her working with demons. (no Merrill debates now we just had one i'm only using her as an example for one hawke that romanced her)

 

One prime example of wanting to explain my reasons was in the Mage tower with Morrigan I really wanted to point out that having mages in debt to us would be useful for the blight but all I could do was either agree with her or tell her to shut it. *shrugs* Oh well, a lot of times with Morrigan though I felt like she just wanted to charge off unprepared which is why she sat at the camp a lot.

 

Well then I take that apology back  Anyway just would be nice to disagree on methods instead of goals, you can disagree on either I mean but I usually only see options to disagree on goals not on the methods to obtain said goal.

[Ryzaki]

I'd like some more conversations like that but I get that they may be hard to balance just nice to be able to disagree with your LI but not completely, like my rouge Hawke being worried about Merrill's safety and her working with demons. (no Merrill debates now we just had one i'm only using her as an example for one hawke that romanced her)

 

One prime example of wanting to explain my reasons was in the Mage tower with Morrigan I really wanted to point out that having mages in debt to us would be useful for the blight but all I could do was either agree with her or tell her to shut it. *shrugs* Oh well, a lot of times with Morrigan though I felt like she just wanted to charge off unprepared which is why she sat at the camp a lot.

 

Well then I take that apology back  Anyway just would be nice to disagree on methods instead of goals, you can disagree on either I mean but I usually only see options to disagree on goals not on the methods to obtain said goal.

 

XD Yeah I know what you mean.

 

Yes that was especially annoying on the male mage I had romancing Morrigan. Just being able to go "Well we were all raised in forest by a powerful mage." would've done wonders. Instead it's all Hurr durr yeah weak mages or STFU. Also being unable to go "are you insane? That's my father!" as a CE when she was all "Yeah sacrifice those filthy elves!" was wut.

 

Yes even if the LI doesn't agree and still wants to end the relationship/disapprove it's nice to know at least your PC had his/her reasons for doing so that wasn't simply for the evilulz.

[Wulfram]

Does he say that you keep siding with the Templars? Or that he expected that you would understand him instead. I can't remember how Anders behaved in my rival playthough (not romanced).

 

He definitely says you side with the Templars if you rival him.

 

And he thinks that you're OK with the whole Abomination thing if you friend him, which also ain't necessarily so

[GVulture]

He definitely says you side with the Templars if you rival him.

 

And he thinks that you're OK with the whole Abomination thing if you friend him, which also ain't necessarily so

Heh, I need to romance him one of these days.

[Cat Fancy]

Best (?) approval bug: if you max out Merrill's approval too early, she'll pretend you gave her the Arulin'Holm if you didn't (or the opposite and you did as a maxed-out rival). She's already got the abomination madness, poor thing.