19658 réponses à ce sujet

[GVulture]

That  too,and speaking of Templars I imagine some had relationships with mages as well.Wynne even alluded to it in DAO.

Didn't she straight up say that Rhys' dad was a templar?

[GVulture]

So, racism is just about color of your skin now? I always thought racism has deeper meaning than that, like social+belief+etc.

 

And 'Oh it's fictional stuff so it doesn't really matter." is not good enough to me, my friend. But whatever.

First we got sexual restriction

Then we got race restriction.

Next thing we know, one companion would probably outright refuse to talk with me if I'm mage or something. There you go : Class restriction.

Class restriction:

 

I would totally expect that from a character who believed strongly enough about it. Heck, even the Fenris romance touches on it if you are a mage. You're not outright denied anything, but it SHOULD be something brought up in the game.

 

Hey, there used to be alignment restrictions too. Wasn't it nigh impossible to romance Aerie or Jaheria in BG2 if you were chaotic evil?

[BubbleDncr]

This is being extremely nitpicky about the species point but considering that one of the most basic definitions of a species is a group of organisms that is capable of interbreeding then yes dwarfs, humans and elves are the same 'species' with each group probably best being described as a subspecies.  That would be of course assuming genetics worked the same in the world of Dragon Age which they probably don't. Although I believe the issues with elves could just as easily being chalked up to a liger/tigon type situation instead of the obviously mystical element it possess in the story. I don't think we've heard about qunari crossbreeds at this time but same rules would apply if they are possible.

 

IF things worked like they do in our world.  Irregardless I'd still rather not see several levels of romance gating unless is was extremely integral to the story they want to tell.  And I'd want some examination of why that's the story they want told.

 

I'm inclined to say most sci-fi and fantasy ignore that rule of science. I mean, pretty much every humanoid in Star Trek can breed with each other, but it doesn't make any sense at all for the same species to exist on planets hundreds of thousands of light years apart from each other. 

 

But the stories are just more interesting when they can. 

[Finnn62]

So, racism is just about color of your skin now? I always thought racism has deeper meaning than that, like social+belief+etc.

 

And 'Oh it's fictional stuff so it doesn't really matter." is not good enough to me, my friend. But whatever.

First we got sexual restriction

Then we got race restriction.

Next thing we know, one companion would probably outright refuse to talk with me if I'm mage or something. There you go : Class restriction.

 

We don't know to what extent these restrictions will exist. It might not be as cumbersome as we fear. Although, I'm right there with you with worrying about it. I personally think they will do they're best and the game will be fantastic. I just hope the restrictions are not so… restrictive. We just have to see what happens, though.

[Finnn62]

All of those species are actually related in Trek. There was a TNG episode about that actually. They come from some ancient master race.. hence everyone being bipedal, similar faces, etc..

 

I think I vaguely remember that, actually, hahaha good old Star Trek TNG

[Maugrim]

All of those species are actually related in Trek. There was a TNG episode about that actually. They come from some ancient master race.. hence everyone being bipedal, similar faces, etc..

I just watched the episode like a week ago, so you beat me to this.  I love the speech the 'ancient humanoid' gives and the conversation between Picard and the Romulan captain that is a  callback to the end of Balance of Terror.

[Finnn62]

I just watched the episode like a week ago, so you beat me to this.  I love the speech the 'ancient humanoid' gives and the conversation between Picard and the Romulan captain that is a  callback to the end of Balance of Terror.

 

If it's not too much trouble, do you remember what episode it was?

[BubbleDncr]

All of those species are actually related in Trek. There was a TNG episode about that actually. They come from some ancient master race.. hence everyone being bipedal, similar faces, etc..

 

Yea but, scientifically, even that still wouldn't work. A species of birds separated into two groups for a hundred years can turn into two species that can't mate. A master race seperated onto different planets for millions of years would definitely evolve into separate species. 

 

I dunno, maybe the explain that in that episode, too. Don't know if I saw that one. But I appreciate your knowledge of the lore. :-) 

[Finnn62]

The episode is called the "Chase".

 

Or at least one of the episodes is. I think it's a multi-part thing.

 

Thanks, I'll have to watch it. Maybe, tomorrow. It's been a while since I've watched any Star Trek.

[Clockwork_Wings]

I have wondered if genlocks looking like small hurlocks (this was prior to DA2) indicated humans and dwarves were closely related.

[Allan Schumacher]

So, racism is just about color of your skin now? I always thought racism has deeper meaning than that, like social+belief+etc.

 

And 'Oh it's fictional stuff so it doesn't really matter." is not good enough to me, my friend. But whatever.

First we got sexual restriction

Then we got race restriction.

Next thing we know, one companion would probably outright refuse to talk with me if I'm mage or something. There you go : Class restriction.

 

No, it's far more likely that there's race restrictions because we wanted to create other romances and working around finite manpower we can apply to the situation because we felt some of those romances were pretty interesting.

 

There may be some level of race restriction on other means, but saying more than this turns into legit spoiler territory.

 

 

What I am saying, however, is that I don't consider this to be "racist" in the same term that the word is used in reality, because it involves fictional groups.  This is largely done to ensure that no one in reality is a member of a said oppressed group.  I am much more okay with elves being oppressed in our game as opposed to black people.  But this isn't even related to romance content at this point.  It's perhaps "racist" within the confines of the game world, but I'm struggling to see how it would make BioWare racist to do stuff like this. 

 

 

Class restriction is something that could be considered as well, though to my knowledge we don't.  If we did, it'd probably only apply to mages since mages are very, very different than anything we have in reality.  There's no comparison.

[Finnn62]

I have wondered if genlocks looking like small hurlocks (this was prior to DA2) indicated humans and dwarves were closely related.

 

I would think no more so than the fact that Dwarves look like small humans, imo.

[Clockwork_Wings]

I would think no more so than the fact that Dwarves look like small humans, imo.

Sure, but the shrieks and the ogres look so...different.  One could say that elves look like humans with pointy ears, but shrieks look nothing like hurlocks with pointy ears.

[Finnn62]

Sure, but the shrieks and the ogres look so...different.  One could say that elves look like humans with pointy ears, but shrieks look nothing like hurlocks with pointy ears.

 

Fair enough… I hadn't even realized shrieks were meant to be elves, tbh… guess that sorta proves your point, lol

[TheodoricFriede]

Sure, but the shrieks and the ogres look so...different.  One could say that elves look like humans with pointy ears, but shrieks look nothing like hurlocks with pointy ears.

Well, hold on now.

 

Which Genlocks are we talking about?

 

They look super different in DA2 then they do in DA:O.

[Finnn62]

One interesting thing about genlocks to me is that they're just as good at magic as hurlocks. Somehow the darkspawn have tapped into the magical abilities of dwarves (assuming genlocks carry anything of the original dwarven genes).

 

But...umm... that's really off the subject, I guess.

 

I don't know what to say about these other issues that I haven't. I want to believe it'll all serve for good storytelling. We'll see. 

 

Yes, I found that interesting, as well. I wonder if dwarves do have some potential for innate magical abilities that has been locked away. Maybe, Sandal… but as you say that's getting a bit off topic.

[Clockwork_Wings]

One interesting thing about genlocks to me is that they're just as good at magic as hurlocks. Somehow the darkspawn have tapped into the magical abilities of dwarves (assuming genlocks carry anything of the original dwarven genes).

But...umm... that's really off the subject, I guess.

I read their magic is from the taint.

Up 'til now I hadn't considered inkossithor/Iron Bull particularly interesting, but a qunari (mage, in my case), born outside the qun, and a qunari with self-doubt, going native? You have my attention now.

@ Mr. Schumacher: You guys have me intrigued about what y'all considet the most interesting romance archs. I wonder if they're combos I've considered, or not? I wonder what made them so interesting to y'all? Something you guys know about the characters and we don't , I'm sure.

[Bartarian Batman]

Maybe, Sandal… but as you say that's getting a bit off topic.

[Former_Fiend]

I'm pretty comfortable saying that it isn't racist.  Some will disagree with me, but none of the restrictions are not the real world.  If you play a character that looks like an asian, none of the characters will refuse based on the colour of your skin.  Unless your argument is that we're being racist towards fictional groups that don't exist in reality?

 

 

As for a large part of the reasoning as to why a decision like this is made, please read the first post of the thread.

 

I've touched on this a lot in this thread, so I figure I'll keep on beating my drum until it starts to resemble a dead horse.

 

I, for one, am not accusing Bioware or anyone at Bioware of being intentionally racist with the race restriction decision. I even understand the practicalities of it.

 

But I do think the concept does carry some inherently racist undertones, because it's sending the message that for whatever reason, interracial relationships aren't ok. Or at least, it could be perceived as sending that message. 

 

These races might be fictional, but they're used for analogues for real world cultures, and they have often been used as a tool to represent the affects of racism, oppression, segregation, and xenophobia. I think it's sending the wrong message when you(meaning Bioware, in this case), use these fictional races for these purposes and then turn around and say that it's perfectly fine to categorically and adamantly shut down any possibility of love and romance with someone based on their race. 

 

Now, of course, these thoughts are based on a lot of assumptions that may prove false; I haven't been shy about the fact that I'm talking worst case scenario here. I am very much against the idea in whatever form it takes, but I admit I may be wrong about it's implementation and it may not be nearly as bad as I fear it is. But on the pure concept stage, these are my thoughts on it.