19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Vapaa]

People want a female dwarf LI and she's the only female dwarf we know is going to be in the game.

 

Actually, of all the potential female NPC, I'd put her and Celene at the most likely position.

[Ianamus]

The progress that Bioware is making with LGBT content is fantastic and I'll never deny that.  However, just because some progress is made doesn't mean that we should be happy with less content still.  There's no reason why there can't be equal options for all gender and orientation combinations.  So, if there's not, then that means that it was on purpose.  Not maliciously on purpose, but that someone, somewhere looked at "The Chart" ™ and decided that they are okay with some people getting more than others.  If the people who get less are the same people who always get less, then there's still some work to be done, in my opinion. 

 

I'm increasingly reaching the conclusion that true inclusiveness is only measurable by the content and ambiance within the game itself, not by counting and comparing numbers on a chart. 

 

I honestly believe that the inclusion of Dorian and Sera is doing far more for LGBT players than even romance distributions ever could. 

[Basement Cat]

I'm increasingly reaching the conclusion that true inclusiveness is only measurable by the content and ambiance within the game itself, not by counting and comparing numbers on a chart. 

Well, bisexuals will always have more choices than the others because, well, hey, gender is no object. Not that they can't be picky, but that's besides the point. I agree that we will need to wait and meet these characters before making any sort of judgement.

 

I see no reason to fear that the characters will be shallow/one dimentional. Bioware is pretty good at making nuanced characters.

[daveliam]

Except there not writing to please you there writing to tell a story if the other options are say Varrick race gated to a female dwarf and Dagna for a male dwarf yet there are still two other companions that are bi-sexual are you still going to say heterosexual players get one more each?

 

do you know how few people play as a dwarf very few do.

 

So then my question is, "Why are they straight?"  Why can't they have them be bisexual so that everyone gets options.  I know that your argument is going to be: "Well, because they wanted them to be straight, that's why.", to which I say, that's exactly the problem.  It's that in video games the default is almost always straight.  We know nothing about Dagna's background.  There's no reason why she can't be straight.  But there's also no reason why she can't be bisexual or a lesbian either.  It's the aggregation of many micro-decisions that creates the disproportionate representation that we see.  If every other (or every third or every fourth or even every fifth) decision tipped in the favor of LGBT individuals, then it wouldn't be an issue.  But they don't.  And that's why I think it's important to keep reminding people that "more representation" does mean "equitable representation".

 

I'm increasingly reaching the conclusion that true inclusiveness is only measurable by the content and ambiance within the game itself, not by counting and comparing numbers on a chart. 

 

I honestly believe that the inclusion of Dorian and Sera is doing far more for LGBT players than even romance distributions ever could. 

 

Why does it have to be "and/or"?  Why can't there be increased LGBT characters and have those characters be comparable in content/ambiance to the heterosexual characters?

[daveliam]

Except there not writing to please you there writing to tell a story if the other options are say Varrick race gated to a female dwarf and Dagna for a male dwarf yet there are still two other companions that are bi-sexual are you still going to say heterosexual players get one more each?

 

do you know how few people play as a dwarf very few do.

 

Also, let me flip this on you.  If straight guys had Cassandra and Josephine.  And gay guys had Dorian and (say) Iron Bull.  And Varric is race-gated as a bisexual dwarf only option, would you say that gay players got one more option than straight players?

 

Straight:  Cassandra, Josephine

Gay:  Dorian, Iron Bull, and Varric (dwarves)

Looks to me like gay guys are getting an extra option in this example.  So wouldn't it hold true in reverse?

[N7 RN]

So, does Bioware plan on keeping some of the romances a secret until the game's release? I was hoping that after all the character reveals they'd give us the official options.

What happened last time? Did they reveal the DA2 romances before the game's release?

[daveliam]

So, does Bioware plan on keeping some of the romances a secret until the game's release? I was hoping that after all the character reveals they'd give us the official options.

What happened last time? Did they reveal the DA2 romances before the game's release?

 

They revealed all of the options on Valentine's Day (which was a few weeks prior to release), but not their orientations.  I don't think people knew that they were all bisexual until people with advanced releases posted it online.

[Ray561]

So then my question is, "Why are they straight?"  Why can't they have them be bisexual so that everyone gets options.  I know that your argument is going to be: "Well, because they wanted them to be straight, that's why.", to which I say, that's exactly the problem.  It's that in video games the default is almost always straight.  We know nothing about Dagna's background.  There's no reason why she can't be straight.  But there's also no reason why she can't be bisexual or a lesbian either.  It's the aggregation of many micro-decisions that creates the disproportionate representation that we see.  If every other (or every third or every fourth or even every fifth) decision tipped in the favor of LGBT individuals, then it wouldn't be an issue.  But they don't.  And that's why I think it's important to keep reminding people that "more representation" does mean "equitable representation".

 

 

Why does it have to be "and/or"?  Why can't there be increased LGBT characters and have those characters be comparable in content/ambiance to the heterosexual characters?

Because there writing what they want to writing not catering to everyone's every desire and if they want this story to be this way it's this way.

 

What happened in DA:0 and Mass Effect I can understand the anger about same sex romance especially in the M/M romance department a huge over site bye Bioware, but complaining  because same sex might get one more Race Gated romance this is bioware's problem they have spoiled and listen to fans to much.

[godModeAlpha]

Pardon me for jumping on the equality band wagon, I dont think it's full and there is still room for improvement.

 

Bioware has done well to push equality in multiple dimensions but I still beilieve it's not done equally.

 

A lot of people seem to think inclusion and fairness is limited to sexual orientation but I would like to point out that the other dimension to equality is having a broad representation of the race, more specifically the human race.

 

Great got that off my chest, it's been coming. I am not trying to blow shyte up like Anders, but this has to be pointed out

[Ray561]

Also, let me flip this on you.  If straight guys had Cassandra and Josephine.  And gay guys had Dorian and (say) Iron Bull.  And Varric is race-gated as a bisexual dwarf only option, would you say that gay players got one more option than straight players?

 

Straight:  Cassandra, Josephine

Gay:  Dorian, Iron Bull, and Varric (dwarves)

Looks to me like gay guys are getting an extra option in this example.  So wouldn't it hold true in reverse?

not that big of a deal because i don't play the games just for the romance i play it for the story.

the romance is just a bonus.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

So, does Bioware plan on keeping some of the romances a secret until the game's release? I was hoping that after all the character reveals they'd give us the official options.

What happened last time? Did they reveal the DA2 romances before the game's release?

They just revealed the sexualities (Cassandra & Cullen) of two and fully revealed another with sexuality (Josephine), but they're telling us "SOOOOOON" on everyone else. I believe we'll know all the options and their sexualities before release. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't know in the next couple weeks at the rate they're going.

[daveliam]

Because there writing what they want to writing not catering to everyone's every desire and if they want this story to be this way it's this way.

 

What happened in DA:0 and Mass Effect I can understand the anger about same sex romance especially in the M/M romance department a huge over site bye Bioware, but complaining  because same sex might get one more Race Gated romance this is bioware's problem they have spoiled and listen to fans to much.

 

You are missing the larger point.  It's not the (hypothetical) one extra romance here.  It's the fact that there is (hypothetically) one extra romance here, and three extra romances in ME 3, and eleven extra romances in SWTOR, and three extra romances in ME2, and one extra romance in DA: O, and two extra romances in ME, and one extra romance in JE, and one extra romance in KOTOR, and three extra romances in NWN, and three extra romances in BG2.  There has been ZERO games where gay guys get an extra romance.  We're not even asking for that.  In this case, we're just asking for equal romances and being told that we're asking for too much.  I hope you can see why it's frustrating, right?

 

Also, you think it's a problem that Bioware listens to their fans? 

 

not that big of a deal because i don't play the games just for the romance i play it for the story.

the romance is just a bonus.

 

Good for you.  If it's not a big deal for you, then you should have no problem if people who think it is a big deal get what they are asking for.

[jtav]

I don't care about having equal options as a straight woman. If they only want to give me two while everyone else gets three, that's fine. Heck, at this point, it looks like I'll be romancing Scribbles.

 

But I'm aware the LGBT situation is somewhat different.

[Stakrin]

About Celene, the no royal wedding subplot could have been mostly about making one of your companion's a king or queen, right?
A guy who ends up with Dorian would end up noble, right? (Unless he is a race gated romance and we never knew, so you have to be a human noble already)

I don't think I would end up with and of the current female LI's (In times of conflict I will probably side with Cullen much more than Josie, and I am not romantically interested in Cassandra)

If we get Dagna, she may not like my anti-circle agenda (plus, if she is so happy it's unrealistic, which some people are, I wouldn't be able to have a serious romance with her. It would seem weird to me.)

[azarhal]

They just revealed the sexualities (Cassandra & Cullen) of two and fully revealed another with sexuality (Josephine), but they're telling us "SOOOOOON" on everyone else. I believe we'll know all the options and their sexualities before release. To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if we don't know in the next couple weeks at the rate they're going.

 

Technically, they are saying "not going to comments" on most suggestions except Blackwall who get a "soon".

[Chernaya]

*reads through thread*

 

Oh yeah, so we can already tell Sera isn't going to be as important to the plot as Viv because reasons and stuff.   The mage with an ulterior motive always has to steal the spotlight.

[Ryzaki]

Meh I would like to have equal options to everyone else but as long as I have 2 good options I really don't care. Stressing about getting less options than someone else when I still have choices would end up with me being bitter in almost every game I play. No point.

[Basement Cat]

*reads through thread*

 

Oh yeah, so we can already tell Sera isn't going to be as important to the plot as Viv because reasons and stuff.   The mage with an ulterior motive always has to steal the spotlight.

Well, as a mage she can make her own spotlight...

[s-jay2676]

Equal options are important to me. If my prediction that straight Inquisitors will get more options than others turns out to be true I will reconsider purchasing the game.

[Ray561]

You are missing the larger point.  It's not the (hypothetical) one extra romance here.  It's the fact that there is (hypothetically) one extra romance here, and three extra romances in ME 3, and eleven extra romances in SWTOR, and three extra romances in ME2, and one extra romance in DA: O, and two extra romances in ME, and one extra romance in JE, and one extra romance in KOTOR, and three extra romances in NWN, and three extra romances in BG2.  There has been ZERO games where gay guys get an extra romance.  We're not even asking for that.  In this case, we're just asking for equal romances and being told that we're asking for too much.  I hope you can see why it's frustrating, right?

 

Also, you think it's a problem that Bioware listens to their fans? 

 

 

Good for you.  If it's not a big deal for you, then you should have no problem if people who think it is a big deal get what they are asking for.

I'm on your side with what happened in past games I can see your frustration but now there giving you maybe and most likely 3 romances to chose from 1 of which is exclusive but getting upset because of one or two groups getting one more because there story to tell with these two characters.

how ever if there were say 2 or 3 extra options for gropes you would have a case but i dont see the point in about one.

 

Bioware should listen to fans about core problems with the game for example DA2 problems were not its story they were told what people didn't like and there addressing it but they should not write character's and stories how there fans want but how they want which is what they seem to be doing.

[Who Knows]

They revealed all of the options on Valentine's Day (which was a few weeks prior to release), but not their orientations.  I don't think people knew that they were all bisexual until people with advanced releases posted it online.

 

We had a huge suspicion of everyone being bisexual because people datamined the DA2 Demo. In the data there were references to files for the same sex version of the romances.

 

This is also how we found out that Steve and Sam were gay, although a leaked demo was datamined instead of a public one.

 

Had we not datamined, it's very possible we wouldn't have found out ahead of time who the S/S options were.

 

Anyway, they've been more forthcoming this time around, even if by accident with Sera.

 

Personally, I don't mind if they had 2 gay love interests with all other romances being bisexual. I don't see why straight people need to have the exact amount that gay players have, when straight players have historically been far more catered to in just about aspect of society, including bioware romances.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Equal options are important to me. If my prediction that straight Inquisitors will get more options than others turns out to be true I will reconsider purchasing the game.

I feel similarly and I feel it's a really difficult choice. I want to support Bioware in being more inclusive than a lot of companies, but at the same time, I would feel hurt if there was an imbalance, especially if the imbalance was bigger than it was in DA2, which had one extra straight option (Sebastian). It puts me in a position I hate, because I feel like I need to support this or it will be seen as an overall lack of interest and Bioware and others might just forego inclusion, altogether. I hate being in a position where I feel like I have to be grateful and supportive of what's still unequal treatment, though. It's difficult when you feel expected to express gratitude for what others would, no doubt, throw a fit over as unbelievable unfairness. 

 

Right now, though, I just want to keep faith in Bioware to do things better. They came so close in DA2 and I want to believe in them to hit real equality this time with the distribution. They've been doing better every time and I want to trust them to keep it up with this game. When people start talking this way and doubting, it's depressing, but I'm going to err with the positive for now and expect the best. I'll give Bioware the benefit of the doubt and work from there.  

[Shark17676]

I'm on your side with what happened in past games I can see your frustration but now there giving you maybe and most likely 3 romances to chose from 1 of which is exclusive but getting upset because of one or two groups getting one more because there story to tell with these two characters.

how ever if there were say 2 or 3 extra options for gropes you would have a case but i dont see the point in about one.

 

Bioware should listen to fans about core problems with the game for example DA2 problems were not its story they were told what people didn't like and there addressing it but they should not write character's and stories how there fans want but how they want which is what they seem to be doing.

 

What are you even talking about?

[cowoline]

Am I the only one who doesn't get excited about anyone to romance? I am sure I will love all the characters, but the prospects of my romance options as a straight female is... a little boring.

 

At this point I'm either going to play a male inquisitor or make a gay character.

[Stakrin]

I think everyone bi is a little but ridiculous. Nobody being gay until this game was quite a wait as well, but it doesn't mean straight people should be taken out all of the sudden.
I don't think making everybody bi makes it equal, not would putting in more gay characters just so you can say there are more gay people.
Some random numbers would seem more equal to me actually.
2 gay men, 1 gay woman, 1 bi man, 3 bi women, 1 straight man, and 2 straight women, 1 man who just wants a fling.

Because in that they are writing characters how they feel they should be, instead of trying to be super fair and even and make everyone happy.