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Guest_StreetMagic_*
Why do people think Varric is an LI at all? I don't get it...
I think at most Varric would be Aveline round 2 (or Oghren round 2), when we get to reunite him with his lover from the comics.
That's what I think too.. but.. people want they want.
I think they should learn a lesson from some of the rest of us who built up expectations. Just in case. That way you'll be fine either way.
From what I've seen, there are essentially two arguments in favor of race gating from a "story" perspective;
1: Racism. "Cullen's kind of a jerk when it comes to other religions and cultures" and "Varric won't romance qunari because of what happened in Kirkwall." Well, our qunari isn't part of the qun and didn't take part in the battle of Kirkwall, so them lumping us together with that is racist. Also opens up some rather nasty implications; they're willing to take orders from us, follow us into battle, put their lives and the fate of Thedas in our hands, but the idea of romance is out of the question?
2: Random preference. I've mentioned several times that I'm friends with a woman who vastly prefers black men to white men. Just finds them way more attractive. Also have a best friend who only likes short, petite women(preferably hispanic), and a friend who only likes heavyset women, and a friend who vastly prefers natural redheads. Are these really the type of preferences that are worthy of representation in the game? Even as a cheap excuse for covering up animation costs? Do petty, arbitrary quirks really count as "story reasons" when all they do is make the character have to explain, "Oh, no, I'm not racist, I just don't find [racial feature X] to be attractive!"
Quoting myself because I got the rotten luck of the last post of the page again.
Right. That would be like assuming Cassandra is straight because Varric said she had a crush on...
Oh wait.
I seem to recall him doing that if Hawke is female, and in a straight relationship? And he suggests Hawke helps Tallis out because she's attractive whether I play a male or female, in a straight relationship.
Right. That would be like assuming Cassandra is straight because Varric said she had a crush on...
Oh wait.
Just because questionable speculation was right in that case doesn't mean that it strengthens other questionable speculation. If a student tries to answer a math question and does the "work" wrong, but gets the right answer because of a random computation error, that doesn't mean that they are more likely to get the next question right too.
Right. That would be like assuming Cassandra is straight because Varric said she had a crush on...
Oh wait.
Right. That would be like assuming Cassandra is straight because Varric said she had a crush on...
Oh wait.
Right. That would be like assuming Cassandra is straight because Varric said she had a crush on...
Oh wait.
To be fair, that same line was used to speculate Cassandra was bi.
From what I've seen, there are essentially two arguments in favor of race gating from a "story" perspective;
1: Racism. "Cullen's kind of a jerk when it comes to other religions and cultures" and "Varric won't romance qunari because of what happened in Kirkwall." Well, our qunari isn't part of the qun and didn't take part in the battle of Kirkwall, so them lumping us together with that is racist. Also opens up some rather nasty implications; they're willing to take orders from us, follow us into battle, put their lives and the fate of Thedas in our hands, but the idea of romance is out of the question?
2: Random preference. I've mentioned several times that I'm friends with a woman who vastly prefers black men to white men. Just finds them way more attractive. Also have a best friend who only likes short, petite women(preferably hispanic), and a friend who only likes heavyset women, and a friend who vastly prefers natural redheads. Are these really the type of preferences that are worthy of representation in the game? Even as a cheap excuse for covering up animation costs? Do petty, arbitrary quirks really count as "story reasons" when all they do is make the character have to explain, "Oh, no, I'm not racist, I just don't find [racial feature X] to be attractive!"
I agree 1 is bad and 2 is irrelevant. But 2 for me it's worthy, and they don't really have to adress the question, just "not interested".
But, there is also 3 which are reasos that are not tied to having racist companions but racism (and political ideologies, like elf nationalism) influencing the decissions of some of them, like I think it could be Vivienne's case or as it could have being the case of a Dalish companion. And I think 3 is ok. Love it's not all there is when it comes to relationhips
There was a cut line about Varric telling Hawke, "Don't worry, I left out the part about us..." It was cut and so non-canon, but I find it interesting that it was considered, a long with whoever told me they regretted in hindsight not making him a LI.
Of course, if he had been a LI, the possibility here would be nil.
Why do people think Varric is an LI at all? I don't get it...
I think at most Varric would be Aveline round 2 (or Oghren round 2), when we get to reunite him with his lover from the comics.
I don't think it's so much that we think he will be as that we hope he will be.
In fact, I think he probably won't be a romance. I would just be extremely happy to be wrong about that.
I agree 1 is bad and 2 is irrelevant. But 2 for me it's worthy, and they don't really have to adress the question, just "not interested".
But, there is also 3 which are reasos that are not tied to having racist companions but racism (and political ideologies, like elf nationalism) influencing the decissions of some of our companions, like I think it could be Vivienne's case or as it could have the case of a Dalish companion. And I think 3 is ok. Love it's not all there is when it comes to relationhips
I like the idea of an elf companion fearing non-elf children, but Sera has no worry of pregnancy and Solas doesn't like to be judged on the basis of his elf-ness.
I'm also hoping the companions aren't carrying invisible neon signs proclaiming their sexuality and my saarabas can flirt with who she will, before they shut it down.
Dorian: You're...very sweet, but...
Saarabas: It's because I'm qunari, isn't it?
Dorian: ...no.
There was a cut line about Varric telling Hawke, "Don't worry, I left out the part about us..." It was cut and so non-canon, but I find it interesting that it was considered, a long with whoever told me they regretted in hindsight not making him a LI.
Of course, if he had been a LI, the possibility here would be nil.
Just because questionable speculation was right in that case doesn't mean that it strengthens other questionable speculation. If a student tries to answer a math question and does the "work" wrong, but gets the right answer because of a random computation error, that doesn't mean that they are more likely to get the next question right too.
Guest_StreetMagic_*
I'd rather play a game with an elf centric story, and trying to convince a human in the group to reconsider history and prejudices. I think they have more to learn than Dalish or CE's.
I agree 1 is bad and 2 is irrelevant. But 2 for me it's worthy, and they don't really have to adress the question, just "not interested".
But, there is also 3 which are reasos that are not tied to having racist companions but racism (and political ideologies, like elf nationalism) influencing the decissions of some of them, like I think it could be Vivienne's case or as it could have being the case of a Dalish companion. And I think 3 is ok. Love it's not all there is when it comes to relationhips
I lump that in with the racist category, because it's either being used as a smokescreen to cover their own racism or it's cowardice.
I don't think it's so much that we think he will be as that we hope he will be.
In fact, I think he probably won't be a romance. I would just be extremely happy to be wrong about that.
This. I'm so glad that people are also able to be hopeful for/with us...
Ooh, we are moving from math to psychology in here!
Well, allow me to take the philosophy road: Everything comes to those who wait. (eventually)
I lump that in with the racist category, because it's either being used as a smokescreen to cover their own racism or it's cowardice.
Cowardice? I take you mean specifically in Vivienne hypothetical case, but I don't see it as cowardice, I see it as she having other preferences over a happy love life. Unless you're saying that everyone in Thedas who is not fighting for elf's rights are cowards.
Alternatively, if throw away lines suggest a companion has a specific preference, perhaps we shouldn't ignore them just because we don't like what that suggests.
Agreed. Cassandra suggests that sometimes it means something. Anders suggests that sometimes it doesn't. So......we're back at square one!
Cowardice? I take you mean specifically in Vivienne hypothetical case, but I don't see it as cowardice, I see it as she having other preferences over a happy love life. Unless you're saying that everyone in Thedas who is not fighting for elf's rights are cowards.
I think that if an elf inquisitor were to approach her in the same way as a human inquisitor, develop the same respect, the same attraction, the same foundation for love that she would have no problem finding with a human inquisitor, and she refused to pursue it due to society's perception of elf/human relationships, then yes, that's cowardice.
From what I've seen, there are essentially two arguments in favor of race gating from a "story" perspective;
1: Racism. "Cullen's kind of a jerk when it comes to other religions and cultures" and "Varric won't romance qunari because of what happened in Kirkwall." Well, our qunari isn't part of the qun and didn't take part in the battle of Kirkwall, so them lumping us together with that is racist. Also opens up some rather nasty implications; they're willing to take orders from us, follow us into battle, put their lives and the fate of Thedas in our hands, but the idea of romance is out of the question?
Most people in Thedas can't make the difference between the Qunari people of the Qun and Qunari "big grey horned invaders".
Ooh, we are moving from math to psychology in here!
Well, allow me to take the philosophy road: Everything comes to those who wait. (eventually)
The Chart will come to us if we open our heart to it.
Agreed. Cassandra suggests that sometimes it means something. Anders suggests that sometimes it doesn't. So......we're back at square one!
I don't recall Anders having any lines about only being attracted to women.
Most people in Thedas can't make the difference between the Qunari people of the Qun and Qunari "big grey horned invaders".
"They all look the same to me."
I'm not talking about most people in Thedas. I'm talking about two individuals who're on our team who need a grand total of one conversation with the qunari inquisitor to know these things and if they're still holding a grudge based on race, then they're still being racist.
I think that if an elf inquisitor were to approach her in the same way as a human inquisitor, develop the same respect, the same attraction, the same foundation for love that she would have no problem finding with a human inquisitor, and she refused to pursue it due to society's perception of elf/human relationships, then yes, that's cowardice.
I don't know, I think it's Ok if people puts other things ahead of love. I think it sounds worse in this case because what she'd putting ahead of it it's status and power, but there are lots of things one can think are more important than love, like family, some political goal, religion and tones of other things. I personally think it's ok. To each his own.
You and I are never going to agree about the race-gating it seems, anyway 
I think that if an elf inquisitor were to approach her in the same way as a human inquisitor, develop the same respect, the same attraction, the same foundation for love that she would have no problem finding with a human inquisitor, and she refused to pursue it due to society's perception of elf/human relationships, then yes, that's cowardice.
Not everyone has the same priorities in a relationships. Personally I see romantic relationships as being mostly about fun. Because of this, I probably wouldn't date a bankrupt, socially stigmatized widow with terminal cancer, no matter how great she is. Maybe Vivienne just values status over relationships, or sees the former as an important part of the latter.
Not everyone has the same priorities in a relationships. Personally I see romantic relationships as being mostly about fun. Because of this, I probably wouldn't date a bankrupt, socially stigmatized widow with terminal cancer, no matter how great she is. Maybe Vivienne just values status over relationships, or sees the former as an important part of the latter.
I confess, it would be nice to remove all doubt that she's a horrible person. It'd deal with my unhealthy attraction, I think.
I don't know, I think it's Ok if people puts other things ahead of love. I think it sounds worse in this case because what she'd putting ahead of it it's status and power, but there are lots of things one can think are more important than love, like family, some political goal, religion and tones of other things. I personally think it's ok. To each his own.
You and I are never going to agree about the race-gating it seems, anyway
If she wants to prioritize things before love, that's fine. So long as she prioritizes those things before that same love with a human inquisitor.
I'm not talking about most people in Thedas. I'm talking about two individuals who're on our team who need a grand total of one conversation with the qunari inquisitor to know these things and if they're still holding a grudge based on race, then they're still being racist.
Not everyone is the type to lose their grudge, beliefs and perception after a single line of dialogs. In fact, that is cheap characterizations to never have companions having issues with the PC races in a world with so much racism.
Also, the LI aren't joining the Inquisition because they want to sleep with the Inquisitor, they have their own goals and they want to resolve the current crisis so they can return to their normal life.
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