19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Hanako Ikezawa]

If/when the time comes where we have a transgender as a LI, I would like them to tell us. Keeping secrets is bad for relationships, right? 

[JadePrince]

I've known a number of trans people over the years, I bet people would change their tune had they ever spoken at length with one. 

 

This is why representation in media is so important! Because a lot of those people will never take the "risk" of talking with a real live gay or trans person, so their first/only exposure to such a person may very well be through their media (TV, games, whatever). And interacting with that character, coming to like and appreciate them, may help begin to change the person's mind about real gay/trans people.

 

Incidentally, that's part of why having Dorian be a gay character (instead of playersexual) is so important. Players can't just pretend he's straight. They will have to interact with an inarguably gay character if they want him to be part of their game (even if they don't romance him).

[Ryzaki]

Again, how would we learn if it's not a romance?

 

Family members friends there's plenty of ways to learn it without a romance with them and the PC being necessary.

 

And really they can't tell the PC about it without a romance? Or tell the PC before the midway part of the romance?

[Xilizhra]

If/when the time comes where we have a transgender as a LI, I would like them to tell us. Keeping secrets is bad for relationships, right? 

That depends on how relevant the secret is. For post-ops, caring about it is like breaking up with someone once you found out they had cancer once: it shows a rather warped set of priorities when it comes to other peoples' medical history. It's somewhat more relevant for pre-ops because it might affect sex, but it need not come up until the topic of sex is raised.

[Lady Nuggins]

because they are not exactly the most popular gaming company right now

people even complained that they announced a gay character (Dorian) just look at this video (comments and dislikes)

 

 

What do you think would happen if they announced a transgendered character?

 

Bioware has not shied away from representation just because a very small, vocal group complainers before.  They knew they would get flack for Dorian, and they still went ahead with him. 

 

After the popularity of the trans comic book character (whose name escapes me since I didn't read the comics), David Gaider did express the desire to include more trans characters in the future.  I would love to see a trans romance someday, and as usual, those who are uncomfortable with a romance can just not do it.

 

If/when the time comes where we have a transgender as a LI, I would like them to tell us. Keeping secrets is bad for relationships, right? 

 

Every other romance gives you chances early in the dialogue to back out, so I don't see why a trans one would be any different.  Zevran doesn't have the awkward conversation about his bisexuality after you jump in the tent with him, it comes up almost right away.  It would make no sense for them to write it in a way that it catches the player by surprise, so I don't see any reason to worry about that.

[Xilizhra]

Family members friends there's plenty of ways to learn it without a romance with them and the PC being necessary.

All right, but that would by nature make them horrible people for outing that person. Do we really want that as our intro?

[Char]

Again, how would we learn if it's not a romance?

I think you have a valid point, but I also think that getting the character right is vital when representing a vulnerable group, and I worry that since trans* people are so often fetishised that introducing trans* people as romance options from the start would need to be handled very carefully.
I also think it's entirely feasible and possible that trans* people could open up about any struggles/transitions to a very close friend. I can only conjecture however, as I have no trans* acquaintances to my knowledge. A strong companion with a well-developed personality could do just as well as a romance at representing in my opinion, but I'm willing to be corrected by those with more knowledge than myself.

[suliabryon]

Wow, talk about stepping into the middle of a serious discussion with a totally OT post! Sorry about that.

 

I am just going to say, I am a straight woman, but I know what it means to me to be able play as such in Bioware games, and not be stuck playing the male hero and romancing a woman. I know what it means to LGB friends of mine to be able to play a character that closely resembles who they are. I've had long conversations with a couple of them about the impact it made in their lives, that nearly brought me to tears. I think including a TG character would be a really courageous and welcome move from Bioware at some point. Maybe a lot of fans aren't ready to be accepting of that yet. But for the people to whom it would mean the most, such a thing would be priceless. I think it would almost be more meaningful in this case, to be able to play a TG character, rather than romancing one. (Not sure on the actual technicality of making that happen, since, you know, pixelated characters, but...just saying. I think the goal here is being able to play someone who is true to yourself and how you want to play.)

 

People feel uncomfortable with things that are outside their life experience. They don't know what it means to be TG, they haven't personally known someone who is, and they react to those feelings of discomfort. If you sat down and talked to someone who is TG about their experiences and fears, and listened with empathy, views would very likely change.

[Sylvianus]

Yes, this. Trans people don't owe anyone private information about their genitals.

 

For those who don't get it: when you meet someone you're potentially romantically interested in, do you immediately share information about what's in your pants? Cuz, if so, that's kind of creepy.

 

This is a video game. Real life people are playing their game with their opinions. If bioware is putting a transgender romance, people have the right to know that he is one before the romance happens. We have all our own sexuality, and it shouldn't be manipulated. like * kiss, kiss kiss *, oh actually I'm a transgenderer character  darling " . Nope, never.

 

 In real life, I would never romance someone that has changed his body, the same in a video game. She could be the most beautiful female character ever, with a beautiful body, that wouldn't change anything, because the big deal is in my mind. 

[Ryzaki]

All right, but that would by nature make them horrible people for outing that person. Do we really want that as our intro?

 

I edited that a bit to make my point more clear. I don't mind them bringing it up themselves but waiting til late in the romance seems poor form and I really don't see a mostly positive reaction to that. In a friendship and such waiting til late to tell the player? Sure. It's not really the PC's business then. In a romance...uh...

 

 

This is a video game. Real life people are playing their game with their opinions. If bioware is putting a transgender romance, people have the right to know that he is one before the romance happens. We have all our own sexuality, and it shouldn't be manipulated. like * kiss, kiss kiss *, oh actually I'm a transgenderer character  darling " . Nope, never.

 

 In real life, I would never romance someone that has changed his body, the same in a video game. She could be the most beautiful female character ever, with a beautiful body, that wouldn't change anything, because the big deal is in my mind. 

 

This. It's just not cool.

[HiroVoid]

Bioware has not shied away from representation just because a very small, vocal group complainers before.  They knew they would get flack for Dorian, and they still went ahead with him. 

 

After the popularity of the trans comic book character (whose name escapes me since I didn't read the comics), David Gaider did express the desire to include more trans characters in the future.  I would love to see a trans romance someday, and as usual, those who are uncomfortable with a romance can just not do it.

 

 

Every other romance gives you chances early in the dialogue to back out, so I don't see why a trans one would be any different.  Zevran doesn't have the awkward conversation about his bisexuality after you jump in the tent with him, it comes up almost right away.  It would make no sense for them to write it in a way that it catches the player by surprise, so I don't see any reason to worry about that.

I'm still pretty much of the opinion that its something that should be let known before the relationship gets serious or before sex, but I'm also like that with any case where it could cause distress for the other person even if there's no real worry about them getting infected (not talking about trans here) or anything that could start a big issue on the relationship.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Here's my thoughts on the remaining LIs, in order of how likely I think they are to get a slot;

 

Iron Bull

 

There have been enough hints over Twitter for me to think this is happening. I'll be surprised if he doesn't get a slot. It's mostly just that. I also think he makes a lot of sense as a gated LI, though, and we need a gated male. Neither Solas or Blackwall makes much sense as a gated LI, from what we know, and I think they're more likely than Varric for the other slot.

 

Vivienne

 

I think the gender and sexuality counts will be equal with some races getting less options, so I think she's in by default. I also think she makes the most sense out of the women to be race gated, which we'll likely have. I think it's a bit silly that people say she's "too ambitious" to be an LI. People realizing that work isn't everything is a pretty standard romance plot. That's not even to touch on the fact that the vast majority of our companions are "ambitious". Otherwise, they probably wouldn't be in this line of work. Dorian is trying to change an entire country, Cassandra started the Inquisition. These aren't ambitious people? 

 

Solas 

 

It's close with him and Blackwall, but I'm leaning towards Solas. He better balances against the other options. Iron Bull, Cullen and Blackwall are all warrior types. Not just in class, but in personality. They approach things from a specific perspective. Solas is a decent contrast, both physically and in personality. So, I'm going to guess it's him.

 

Blackwall

 

I wont be totally shocked if it's him, but I think he may be more of a mentor type. That's how his archetype is usually set up. They also might not consider someone close to their calling as a good option, since Thane's illness in ME was not well received. I could see him as being like Wynne with a better sense of humor.

 

Varric

 

I think there are several reasons he doesn't fit. He's not well conceived as a bisexual LI and I believe the remaining will be bisexual. His characterization would have to change a lot for him to not come out extremely slanted towards women, which isn't totally fair to guys. He's said before that he didn't like humans and I think it's less likely both gated options will be males. I'm also doubtful they'll gate against the most popular race (humans) in favor of the least popular race (dwarves). Then there's the obvious Bianca situation, which I think we could be solving this game. It seems very possible that he will be reuniting with Bianca.

[Ajna]

I think you have a valid point, but I also think that getting the character right is vital when representing a vulnerable group, and I worry that since trans* people are so often fetishised that introducing trans* people as romance options from the start would need to be handled very carefully.
I also think it's entirely feasible and possible that trans* people could open up about any struggles/transitions to a very close friend. I can only conjecture however, as I have no trans* acquaintances to my knowledge. A strong companion with a well-developed personality could do just as well as a romance at representing in my opinion, but I'm willing to be corrected by those with more knowledge than myself.

This is what happened with me.  And it's heartbreaking to hear.

[Vapaa]

Family members friends there's plenty of ways to learn it without a romance with them and the PC being necessary.

 

And really they can't tell the PC about it without a romance? Or tell the PC before the midway part of the romance?

 

Or during the friendship arc.

[Freedheart]

It wouldn't take that much imagination - one of your companions has an uncharacteristically strong reaction to some injustice, you ask them about it, they explain about the abuse they have taken in their life from being 'different'.  Hell, have your PC be ignorant of the companion being trans-gendered, and have them explain...it doesn't have to be a big reveal or a secret...just background in a well-rounded character, which I am more than confident the writers at BW can manage.

[HiroVoid]

I edited that a bit to make my point more clear. I don't mind them bringing it up themselves but waiting til late in the romance seems poor form and I really don't see a mostly positive reaction to that.

Also, if the goal's to help better represent transpeople, I doubt the best way to go about that is to surprise the person romancing the character that the character is trans.  That seems like it would tick more people off, and not help out representation at all.  It gives off more of a sign that trans people are people you'll have sex with and surprise you after you had sex which is not at all a good image.

[ReelRipper]

Yeah you don't want to drop on the player without finding someway to reveal to him/her about their actual gender. The characters has to be believable and well written as well not stereotypes.

[Ryzaki]

Or during the friendship arc.

 

Exactly. Springing on late in the romance is just =/
 

[DisturbedJim83]

I don't see how a transgendered character as a romance would be a problem. Transgendered or not, if, for example, a character says she's a woman and presents as a woman, then she's a woman, and would fill one of the female LI slots. Vice versa for a trans dude. Are there people who would complain? Sure, but there are gonna be people who complain about their available LI choices no matter what traits the writers give them.

 

Like DG has said, they're interested in providing options, not making sure everyone likes every option they have. 

 

How do you know the number of people who would be interested in a trans romance? How would you even know the character was trans unless they trusted you enough to tell you? 

 

I think it would be AMAZING if one of our companions in a Dragon Age game ended up being trans, but, as the PC, you wouldn't even know until/unless they chose to trust you with that information after you formed a close friendship with them.

Thing is trust works both ways since I am required to trust that a person is being honest instead of deliberately deceitful, it does not matter if a Male Trans looks like a Woman,thinks of themself as a Woman and Dresses like a Woman,unless they have had surgery to remove the relevant parts then they are still a man and if they have told me that they are a woman then they have been intentionally deceitful.

 

If they are merely talking to me like anyone else would then not telling me they are trans is not an issue, if however they are making a more intimate proposition then it does matter.Like I said it works both ways treat others as you would like to be treated yourself,if you expect others to be honest with you then you should in turn be honest with others 

[Vapaa]

 

 

*snip*

 

 

Mostly this, except that (I must really sound like a broken record) Iron bull has the least reasons to be gated especially since said gating is for "story reasons" and not "technical reasons".

[Ryzaki]

Also, if the goal's to help better represent transpeople, I doubt the best way to go about that is to surprise the person romancing the character that the character is trans.  That seems like it would ****** more people off, and not help out representation at all.  It gives off more of a sign that trans people are people you'll have sex with and surprise you after you had sex which is not at all a good image.

 

Yeah that is just has bad idea written all over it.

[JadePrince]

This is a video game. Real life people are playing their game with their opinions. If bioware is putting a transgender romance, people have the right to know that he is one before the romance happens. We have all our own sexuality, and it shouldn't be manipulated. like * kiss, kiss kiss *, oh actually I'm a transgenderer character  darling " . Nope, never.

 

 In real life, I would never romance someone that has changed his body, the same in a video game. She could be the most beautiful female character ever, with a beautiful body, that wouldn't change anything, because the big deal is in my mind. 

 

There is so much insulting stuff in this comment, I don't even know where to start... A transwoman hooking up with a straight dude isn't "manipulating" his sexuality. That transwoman IS A WOMAN. :/ 

 

But we're getting pretty far off topic now. 

[Lady Nuggins]

I'm still pretty much of the opinion that its something that should be let known before the relationship gets serious or before sex, but I'm also like that with any case where it could cause distress for the other person even if there's no real worry about them getting infected (not talking about trans here) or anything that could start a big issue on the relationship.

 

That's why I used the example of Zevran.  He tells you his sexual history well before things get serious.  If they did a trans character, they wouldn't spring it on people late in the relationship.  That's not anything we need to worry about, so I'd advise people not to get bent out of shape about this, because it's derailing the thread.

[Xilizhra]

And really they can't tell the PC about it without a romance? Or tell the PC before the midway part of the romance?

In the first case, why would they? In the second case, why would they before it became serious? Unless the topic of transgender rights comes up and it might become personally relevant, it seems like it'd come out of nowhere.

 

 

This is a video game. Real life people are playing their game with their opinions. If bioware is putting a transgender romance, people have the right to know that he is one before the romance happens. We have all our own sexuality, and it shouldn't be manipulated. like * kiss, kiss kiss *, oh actually I'm a transgenderer character  darling " . Nope, never.

 

 In real life, I would never romance someone that has changed his body, the same in a video game. She could be the most beautiful female character ever, with a beautiful body, that wouldn't change anything, because the big deal is in my mind. 

Then be prepared to spoil yourself trawling for hints before you're drawn into our malign evil web. Also, I'm fairly sure you're misusing "he."

 

 

Also, if the goal's to help better represent transpeople, I doubt the best way to go about that is to surprise the person romancing the character that the character is trans.  That seems like it would tick more people off, and not help out representation at all.  It gives off more of a sign that trans people are people you'll have sex with and surprise you after you had sex which is not at all a good image.

Surprise after you have sex?

 

At any rate, how would you go about implementing this? After the first flirt or something, have her say something like "Oh, by the way, I have a dick. Dealbreaker? Y/N"?

[Gwydden]

There is so much insulting stuff in this comment, I don't even know where to start... A transwoman hooking up with a straight dude isn't "manipulating" his sexuality. That transwoman IS A WOMAN. :/ 

 

But we're getting pretty far off topic now. 

You know sexuality isn't restricted to gender, right?