19658 réponses à ce sujet

[JadePrince]

It doesn't matter if they are pre or post op, it is never appropriate to call a transsexual person by their physical sex when they have already let it be known they would prefer you would use a different pronoun.

 

It's like if someone said "My name is Robert, but I'd really prefer it if you called me Bob" and you insisted on calling them Robert anyway. That would make you a huge ass hole. 

 

Thank you. I was going to say that you don't need to have surgery to be transgender. Thus it's perfectly possible for there to be transwomen (and there is!) and transmen in Thedas. Whether there's magic or medical science doesn't matter.

[Freedheart]

"Tonight, on Extreme Shapeshifting..." 

[Ajna]

Doesn't sound complicated to me.

It's not to a lot of people, others..yeah...completely don't get it.

[wright1978]

It doesn't matter if they are pre or post op, it is never appropriate to call a transsexual person by their physical sex when they have already let it be known they would prefer you would use a different pronoun.
 
It's like if someone said "My name is Robert, but I'd really prefer it if you called me Bob" and you insisted on calling them Robert anyway. That would make you a huge ass hole.

Calling them by the gender they feel them to be is indeed polite. However I don't get why that precludes recognising that physically they aren't.

[DeusGoddess5010]

Biologically speaking it seems gender identity is another sex trait that is set up in brain during prenatal period of development. Therefore saying that trans women are biologically men is not really correct. And hormone treatment changes many sex characteristics, which means, changes biology of the rest of the body in some aspects.

I ment in terms of human physiolgy. Male female and intersex. If what your saying was the case, what do you call those things that give birth or have a uterus and womb, or those human things that produce sperm? Its easy to get social and biolgoical repentation mixed together. Thier is no drug or medical science to completly change ones sex to another, nor ethnic/race to another, hair , species etc.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I'd rather the english language just make up a gender neutral pronoun, it would even help when you're making papers and you don't have to go 'he or she', 's/he', or 'them.

Well, 'it' is a gender neutral pronoun but calling people 'it' is an insult.

[Ryzaki]

My point is that Jade's post seems to imply only men dislike transgenders, while it's not true, and women might've debated with Jade.

 

Yep and my issue mostly was the "let's wait late in the romance to spring it on you" thing. If my character hits on someone trans and only finds out later. Meh whatever. Things like that happen. If my character is in a relationship with someone trans and they don't decide to tell them til it's near time for sex...that's when I'm kind of "uh..really BW?"

[The Elder King]

You do not have to be post-op to be a transwoman. In fact, transwomen often get their identity changed to represent as a woman long before they even have surgery if ever. If you live your life as a woman, you are in fact a woman.

...I was referring to Josephine's possibility of being one, since if she's one it (probably) means she had a sex change. I never said (and I didn't meant) that Mae isn't transwoman.

[Fialka]

Here's my thoughts on the remaining LIs, in order of how likely I think they are to get a slot;

 

*snip*

I pretty much agree with this, exactly... Except I do think it's possible Varric will be an LI, instead of Vivienne...

 

Though it would be a surprising move on Bioware's part to make 5 male LIs v. 3 female... I could see Varric being a sort of 'bonus' romance available only to female dwarves.  And regarding Vivi, it's not so much her personality, as the fact that, like other posters have mentioned, it's a bit squicky to have EVERY SINGLE female companion and adviser be romanceable.  I know, Leliana isn't in this game, but that's out of respect for those players who romanced her in a previous game.  As a female player, I find it mildly objectifying, and I find it hard to believe that a progressive gaming company like Bioware with so many women on its dev team would be blind to that.  Not that it bothers me overly much, mind you, and I'd appreciate the symmetry of it were she included in the final 8, but, it's also not an issue I can completely ignore.

 

Just my thoughts, personally... At this point I think I'm done trying to predict anything, for as we've seen so far anything can happen.

[Xilizhra]

Calling them by the gender they feel them to be is indeed polite. However I don't get why that precludes recognising that physically they aren't.

Physical sex, not gender, and pronouns have nothing to do with that.

[Char]

I'd rather the english language just make up a gender neutral pronoun, it would even help when you're making papers and you don't have to go 'he or she', 's/he', or 'them.

I was always taught if in doubt use 'they' and ask politely what the person's preferred pronoun would be. I believe there are gender neutral pronouns beginning with z but because I only ever saw those written I wouldnt be comfortable using them in conversation in case my pronunciation was horrible

[Solas]

Might it be possible to move discussion along from the trans subject? Some of the things being said are not great.

[90s Luke]

The thing is, what people want to know, and what people have a right to know are two different things. It's not OK to make trans* people pass a genital check in order to be 'worthy' of sexual contact because you wouldn't do it to a cis person. Someones genitalia are the most private parts of their body and are generally only shown under intimate circumstances.

 

You missed my point. If a relationship has progressed to the point of sexual contact and one person has genitalia that the other person is not interested in, then unnecessary awkwardness would surely ensue.

[CrimsonN7]

I try.

 

 

But why should we give bigoted opinions any credence?

People are still entitled to their opinions just as you are even if you disagree with them. That's the thing about opinions and a-hole's everyone has one.

 

I for one have no issue if Bioware decide to introduce a Transgendered person into one of their games, I would welcome it. Many others would too but not many would be comfortable romancing said character and that's their choice. People should respect this, not everyone can be uber liberal on such matters.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

...I was referring to Josephine's possibility of being one, since if she's one it (probably) means she had a sex change. I never said (and I didn't meant) that Mae isn't transwoman.

Don't worry, I get what you are trying to say Elder King. 

[fizzypop]

...I was referring to Josephine's possibility of being one, since if she's one it (probably) means she had a sex change. I never said (and I didn't meant) that Mae isn't transwoman.

Jo could still be a transwoman without a sex change though. That isn't necessary to be considered a woman. Many women who not have their uterus or ovaries or breasts. They are still women even without all those things.

[The Elder King]

Thank you. I was going to say that you don't need to have surgery to be transgender. Thus it's perfectly possible for there to be transwomen (and there is!) and transmen in Thedas. Whether there's magic or medical science doesn't matter.

I didn't mean it's not possible to be a transwoman without a sex change. I was referring to the possibilities of Josephine being one, since if she's one she likely had a sex change.

[Ajna]

Don't worry, I get what you are trying to say Elder King. 

Now give King a hug...go on!

[HiroVoid]

I was always taught if in doubt use 'they' and ask politely what the person's preferred pronoun would be. I believe there are gender neutral pronouns beginning with z but because I only ever saw those written I wouldnt be comfortable using them in conversation in case my pronunciation was horrible

lol yeah.  I was kinda referring to all the way how when I was writing papers, it would be said 'they' would be grammatically incorrect even though I think that's changed now.  It's more 'I wish a gender neutral term was made if it isn't already, and it would actually see wide use.'

[fizzypop]

who do not*

[Xilizhra]

I pretty much agree with this, exactly... Except I do think it's possible Varric will be an LI, instead of Vivienne...

 

Though it would be a surprising move on Bioware's part to make 5 male LIs v. 3 female... I could see Varric being a sort of 'bonus' romance available only to female dwarves.  And regarding Vivi, it's not so much her personality, as the fact that, like other posters have mentioned, it's a bit squicky to have EVERY SINGLE female companion and adviser be romanceable.  I know, Leliana isn't in this game, but that's out of respect for those players who romanced her in a previous game.  As a female player, I find it mildly objectifying, and I find it hard to believe that a progressive gaming company like Bioware with so many women on its dev team would be blind to that.  Not that it bothers me overly much, mind you, and I'd appreciate the symmetry of it were she included in the final 8, but, it's also not an issue I can completely ignore.

 

Just my thoughts, personally... At this point I think I'm done trying to predict anything, for as we've seen so far anything can happen.

I don't think that it's objectifying when you consider that of the likely non-LI men, Blackwall is old and potentially dying, Cole is a revenant, and Varric is taken; all their reasons are external, nothing to do with just not being interested in or being somehow above romance. It also seems to imply that being romanceable is some type of strike against the companion in question, and I don't see that at all.

[fizzypop]

I didn't mean it's not possible to be a transwoman without a sex change. I was referring to the possibilities of Josephine being one, since if she's one she likely had a sex change.

Why do you believe she likely had a sex change? Like that I don't get.

[Vapaa]

Thank you. I was going to say that you don't need to have surgery to be transgender. Thus it's perfectly possible for there to be transwomen (and there is!) and transmen in Thedas. Whether there's magic or medical science doesn't matter.

 

Semantics question, is it right to call "transgender" a person who doesn't identify with their natural gender , and "transsexual" a transgender post-operation ?

[The Elder King]

Jo could still be a transwoman without a sex change though. That isn't necessary to be considered a woman. Many women who not have their uterus or ovaries or breasts. They are still women even without all those things.

My point is that she seems to have breasts, so she seems to be either a biological woman or a post-OP transwoman.

[DeusGoddess5010]

I am guessing either Ironbull, Viv or Solas will be the last 3 romance options. Tho idk why, but hopefuly Varric, he needs the love haha