19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Um, the past of the person you are romantically involved with is none of your business?  Sorry, this doesn't fly.

 

*Edit*  Going to cool it on responses now since the thread is sorta slow at the moment. 

Do you pry into the medical history of your beaus?

 

 

I am hoping Vivienne isn't one because she sounds like a horrible, superficial person.  Granted, I'll give her a chance to prove me otherwise.  It's almost impossible to know anything about these characters based on one paragraph of text, but that paragraph of text is usually all I have to inform me of who I'll try to go for the first play through. 

I used to think so, but I no longer think she's superficial. I think the trappings of nobility and such are more a means to an end than the end itself.

[wickedgoodreed]

Also, to my mind, it would be more inclusive of transgender people to let them play a transgender character than it would be just to stick in a transgender LI. Then they can romance whoever they want.  This seems the real issue to me.  It's a little different from including gay romances because gay people are more specific in who they want to romance - people of their same biological sex.  Unless there are gay or bi LIs around, they *can't* actively roleplay a gay character.  So far as I know most transgender people don't want to romance only other transgender people.  If they are allowed to play as a transgender character then they can romance whoever - whether they identify as straight or gay or bi or what have you. 

 

I think there's value in including a transgender character that everyone has access to in addition. My understanding comes largely from media representations; and, unfortunately, most media treat them very poorly. Having positive representation that's not hidden away is important too.

 

Anyone else having that problem where they vacillate between what LI's they want to be confirmed?   Yesterday I was all for the Vivienne. Today, Varric. Tomorrow will probably be Solas and Blackwall the day after. It's madness.

 

I've luckily got Sera, so I'm more spectator at this point. But it really is madness going back and forth. I'm rooting for the Varric fans! They've been the underdogs since before DA2.

[Xilizhra]

Medical history is totally relevant for any number of reasons I can think of including:

 

Do they have an STD?  I need to know this.

Do they have some condition that requires constant management that I need to know about?  (I don't want to bring them cookies only to be told they are diabetic or allergic to peanuts.  I also want to know what to do to help them if their blood sugar tanks or they go into an allergic shock).

Are they a carrier for some congenital disease?  This totally affects potential for child-bearing and if having kids is a must have in a relationship, this is also something I need to know. 

 

I don't expect them to give me their medical records on a first date.  I *do* expect them to be honest with me about any information that can have a meaningful physical, emotional, or financial impact on me.  Even *if* they have successfully achieved their preferred biological sex through surgery or some other means, I find it pretty well impossible to believe that there is 0 remaining potential impact on the relationship.  What about their family?  What about child bearing?  All of this matters.  (Obviously, much less so in a video game where you probably aren't going to meet their parents or have kids, etc.)

 

In a video game, I would settle for *me* the player knowing ahead of time even if my character doesn't.  Also, it one of the goals of this is representation and coverage and positive inclusion for trans people, it seems better for Bioware to go "Look, here is a respectable, likable, normal human being who happens to be trans" in their marketing beforehand rather than going "Here's this character.  Suprise!  They are trans!" after release.  This sounds too much like "Lola" to me.  If they are going to do it, I think they can do it better than that.    

I think it's probable that the marketing would reveal this before the game actually started, yes.

[DeusGoddess5010]

I strongly think the last 3 will be Ironbull,Solas, and am tied between Viv and varric. I think he might not be a romance and iron bull will be for qunari's only

[Sporothrix]

At this point, the point of the character even identifying themselves as trans would be irrelevant because they *are* their new sex, both mentally and biologically.  There is no difference at all.  They have effectively gotten precisely what they wanted - to become their mental sex.  Why even bring up what they used to be?  This would just seem cheap to me.  Taking a character that *is* completely biologically and mentally a particular sex and saying - oh wait, never mind.  If they are going to address this issue, I think their are better ways to do it than this.  

 

That would be similar to case of many real life post-op transsexual people. It's apparently very easy to be 'passable' for trans men, but nowadays many trans women (or rather trans girls) start transition before male puberty kicks in, so they don't develop any male sex characteristics, except for genitals. And there's surgery for that.

[Who Knows]

They could do a trans* character whereupon in the friendship it is revealed (willingly) that they are trans*. Sometime after that, the player can choose to pursue a romance. That seems to address most of the problems people are having with having, beyond just not wanting to have a trans* character or trans* romance period.

[Sporothrix]

They could do a trans* character whereupon in the friendship it is revealed (willingly) that they are trans*. Sometime after that, the player can choose to pursue a romance. That seems to address most of the problems people are having with having, beyond just not wanting to have a trans* character or trans* romance period.

 

Although I doubt many transsexual people would be glad if the representation they're going to get is like Mae - despite all the insane magic that gives mages the possibility to turn into different species and even swarms of bugs, for *reasons* magical sex change is impossible, which allowed to show transsexual character's naked muscular male chest.

[Sporothrix]

@miso

 

In that case, it really doesn't matter much because that person has spent their formative sexual years as both their physical and mental sex.  Though it *could* still matter to people who have an issue with any sex change at all. (Whether this is right or not is sort of beside the point.  These people do exist).  And both the person with the issue *and* the transgender person needs to know if that's the case before the relationships really gets serious.  I'm not trans so obviously I can't say, but it doesn't seem strange to think that a trans person would *want* to know if their partner would hate them or not if they knew they were trans.  Why would they want to be with someone like that? 

 

I don't understand what do you mean byt that: "In that case, it really doesn't matter much because that person has spent their formative sexual years as both their physical and mental sex."

If the transsexual character in question wasn't 'passable', then PC would know anyway.

[Xesthan]

It doesn't matter to me if a transgender is put in a Dragon Age game. If they want to write a character that is one then they can ago ahead. And if they want to make that character a LI then that's fine to. Romances are just options at the end of the day.

[vasty deep]

Medical history is totally relevant for any number of reasons I can think of including:

 

Do they have an STD?  I need to know this.

Do they have some condition that requires constant management that I need to know about?  (I don't want to bring them cookies only to be told they are diabetic or allergic to peanuts.  I also want to know what to do to help them if their blood sugar tanks or they go into an allergic shock).

Do they have some sickness that will shorten their life span or ultimately result in extreme disability?

Are they a carrier for some congenital disease?  This totally affects potential for child-bearing and if having kids is a must have in a relationship, this is also something I need to know. 

 

I don't expect them to give me their medical records on a first date.  I *do* expect them to be honest with me about any information that can have a meaningful physical, emotional, or financial impact on me.  Even *if* they have successfully achieved their preferred biological sex through surgery or some other means, I find it pretty well impossible to believe that there is 0 remaining potential impact on the relationship.  What about their family?  What about child bearing?  All of this matters.  (Obviously, much less so in a video game where you probably aren't going to meet their parents or have kids, etc.)

 

In a video game, I would settle for *me* the player knowing ahead of time even if my character doesn't.  Also, it one of the goals of this is representation and coverage and positive inclusion for trans people, it seems better for Bioware to go "Look, here is a respectable, likable, normal human being who happens to be trans" in their marketing beforehand rather than going "Here's this character.  Suprise!  They are trans!" after release.  This sounds too much like "Lola" to me.  If they are going to do it, I think they can do it better than that.    

These things all affect you. Them being transgender does not affect you in any way. Therefore it is none of your business.

[FaWa]

You are taking this way too seriously, Ragabul

[LiaraShepard]

I'd prefer to have the option to make the PC transsexual instead of having a transsexual companion. I always wanted to give my male Hawke some hairdo and makeup  from the female models.

[pallascedar]

When it comes to transgender people in games the main thing I worry about is how the characters will be executed properly. First off, unless they introduce a character that is already known, like Mae, how do you tastefully "out" a transgender character to the player? They could tell the player themselves, but I don't see why its necessary, barring romantic content (and even then, how necessary is it really?) It's easy to show the player that a character that a character is gay by introducing past relationships and having them be attracted to the player, it isn't easy to introduce trans characters because... a trans woman is just a woman. She doesn't need to be separated as different from other women in game.

 

Beyond that, I wonder how the character would be represented in game (what model would they pick?) Would you just use female and male models (which would make sense) or would they want them to have their own unique models? I would love games to have a transgender character. I would love that character to be a love interest (I'll admit that I have my own issues with the idea of romancing a transgender person, but I think those issues come from a place that lacks understanding on my part, and I don't think developers should cater to the ignorant). I just worry how this is going to be done tastefully.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

Oh look, this topic again in the ROMANCES thread.

[Grieving Natashina]

 

Yes, yes it is the romance thread.  Some posters are talking about not just having a trans* person in future games, but how that would work in terms of a romance arc for Dragon Age.  Seems pretty on topic to me.

[Xilizhra]

When it comes to transgender people in games the main thing I worry about is how the characters will be executed properly. First off, unless they introduce a character that is already known, like Mae, how do you tastefully "out" a transgender character to the player? They could tell the player themselves, but I don't see why its necessary, barring romantic content (and even then, how necessary is it really?) It's easy to show the player that a character that a character is gay by introducing past relationships and having them be attracted to the player, it isn't easy to introduce trans characters because... a trans woman is just a woman. She doesn't need to be separated as different from other women in game.

 

Beyond that, I wonder how the character would be represented in game (what model would they pick?) Would you just use female and male models (which would make sense) or would they want them to have their own unique models? I would love games to have a transgender character. I would love that character to be a love interest (I'll admit that I have my own issues with the idea of romancing a transgender person, but I think those issues come from a place that lacks understanding on my part, and I don't think developers should cater to the ignorant). I just worry how this is going to be done tastefully.

A unique model is probably most likely assuming that they're a person of any importance, since other companions are getting them there, but it can easily be subtle. And I do think having them be a romance option is best for having the reveal make sense.

 

 

Emotional impact doesn't affect me?  Going to meet their parents and being shown baby pictures of them as a biological girl when I thought they were male has 0 mental or emotional impact on me?  Saying "it shouldn't" isn't living in the reality of how people's emotions work.  This is not even getting into religious reasons someone might have an issue with this, which *totally* has an impact on both people involved.

 

Denying me access to something that almost certainly had a huge formative impact on who they are as a person has no impact on me?  I'm not interested in failing in love with a manufactured "current" representation of someone where I only have information about them going back 5 years or whatever.  I want to fall in love with *them,* which includes their past and the transition of how they moved from that to the present.  To never talk about it effectively means "sorry, I am denying you all access to information about my childhood because that has nothing to do with who I am now."    

I understand your point, to be sure; the main issue is that it so frequently comes with the reasoning of "ick, I don't want to get any transsexuals on me," so we're leery of it.

 

 

Oh look, this topic again in the ROMANCES thread.

Well, we certainly are discussing romances.

[Battlebloodmage]

In a way, it seems like the focus is on the transwoman even we talk about transsexual, but I feel like there is barely any representation or barely even mention of transman. Not sure if it's more uncomfortable for people and the media in general or not.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

 
Yes, yes it is the romance thread.  Some posters are talking about not just having a trans* person in future games, but how that would work in terms of a romance arc for Dragon Age.  Seems pretty on topic to me.

Ah, carry on then

[Xilizhra]

In a way, it seems like the focus is on the transwoman even we talk about transsexual, but I feel like there is barely any representation or barely even mention of transman. Not sure if it's more uncomfortable for people and the media in general or not.

From what I can tell, there's somewhat less drama with transmen, because it's significantly more socially acceptable in many cases for women (and transmen) to act in a masculine role than for men (and transwomen) to act in a feminine role. Also, while I'm not positive about this, I think they're a fair bit less common than transwomen.