19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Herr Uhl]

Wouldn't Josephine be equally important as Cullen?

 

If not more as she seems to be the one that actually makes the Inquisition run. I can see the rationale for Cassandra in the argument, but Cullen is hardly the posterboy.

[jtav]

Orientation can feed into the story they want to present. For example, Dorian is a rebel magister. Since Tevinter is disapproving of homosexuality, him being gay strengthens his archetype. Or we have Alistair: courteous, virginal, slightly childish knight in shining armor. Much of his romance tracks with what women traditionally find romantic.

[azarhal]

That didn't answer my question at all - first of all, they wouldn't be all bisexual anyway. It started with you defending the idea of preferential treatment of straight people, so I guess that you're saying there would be nothing wrong if sexual minority groups members would have it worse simply because devs chose so. And I'm still waiting to hear what could make any of those characters not fit as having feelings for both genders.

 

I'm not defending anyone or anything beside the writers's decisions.  The writers decided the character sexuality before they decided the LIs and if the last few ones were designed has straight or homosexual and not bisexual that is what they will be.

 

It's not because one orientation get one less choice that the writers hates them.

 

We don't really know that yet... I would argue that Cullen is not plot-centric at all.  Actually Solas could be the plot-centric male LI - what with him being the Fade expert and seeking you out, and I'm speculating he'll be bi.  But, a lot of people don't think that's the case or should be, for the totally shallow reason of him not being hot enough (a fact I disagree with - I'm totally rooting for him, myself), so... yeah.

 

But you're right... Why not make Cass bi?  Hell, I'm straight in real life, but like her character enough to have wanted to romance her at some point (but have little interest in playing a man, so, if she's straight it won't happen).  Is it because they wanted to make her the archetypal 'strong woman' whose heart is softened by love?  In that case, why did they feel it made sense if a man played that role, but not a woman?

 

Just saying, I don't totally disagree with you, at least in regards to Cass, but the way some posters word things gives me 'what makes you straight?' vibes, which I find just as annoying as the 'what makes you gay' argument, since I firmly believe the answer is to both is, you, know, birth 

 

The advisors are more plot-centric than the companions.

[Fialka]

Personally, I am so over Sera and Iron Bull... Not because one is gay and the other might be bi... It's just that they're perceived as the 'fun' ones and seem to be the unofficial favorites... Half the dev tweets seem to be about them, to the point where I have to play Where's Waldo in twitterland to find any mention of characters I actually want to know more about.

[Gwydden]

I agree, the writers don't need justification for how they write their characters.  Doesn't mean these types of questions shouldn't be asked though.  

You're not getting my point. Why did the writers make Cass straight? I have no idea, but the reason could be as simple as "they felt like it". The same goes for Sera, Dorian, and Cullen. Now you may think that reason is stupid, but I repeat that as a writer myself I'm not able to change my characters' orientation even if I try. And my reason for giving them that orientation in the first place is as simple as "it just seems right".

 

Now, you may find that reason silly, but a writer's relationship with their characters doesn't have all that much in common with how the fans relate to other people's characters. You can say "But why don't you make him straight? It would be really easy!". But I can't. I mean I literally can't. At that point those characters are very close to being real to me. Wouldn't you say changing a person's orientation is shady? It would just feel wrong.

 

I think we all could use a reminder that fictional characters are property of the author first, not the fans. No matter how badly we may want to play with them, they're not ours and we don't get to make the call. If you really can't help it, well, there's always fanfiction. Or original fiction, if you feel like going and making your own.

 

In short, don't tell a writer what to do with their toys, will you?

[Ianamus]

I've never understood the "plot-centric" arguments at all, and I never will. 

 

Bioware made the characters and their orientations first then chose the LI's later. They didn't deliberately choose to make the most "plot-centric" character straight, they just decided that Cassandra should be the one who came up with the idea of forming the Inquisition and she just happened to be straight. 

 

Considering that she's been around for quite awhile I wouldn't be surprised if she's been written as a straight character since the scrapped Dragon Age 2 expansion, Dawn of the Seeker, or even Dragon Age 2 itself. 

[Milan92]

I've never understood the "plot-centric" arguments at all, and I never will. 

 

Bioware made the characters and their orientations first then chose the LI's later. They didn't deliberately choose to make the most "plot-centric" character straight, they just decided that Cassandra should be the one who came up with the idea of forming the Inquisition and she just happened to be straight. 

 

Considering that she's been around for quite awhile I wouldn't be surprised if she's been written as a straight character since the scrapped Dragon Age 2 expansion, Dawn of the Seeker, or even Dragon Age 2 itself. 

 

Never understood it either.

 

Why does it matter so much wether your romance is important to the plot? I'm genuinely curious.

[Wereupine]

It shouldn't matter what sexual orientation you are. You should get equal options. Worrying about how important a LI is to the story before you've even played it seems redundant.

[LiaraShepard]

I've never understood the "plot-centric" arguments at all, and I never will. 

 

Bioware made the characters and their orientations first then chose the LI's later. They didn't deliberately choose to make the most "plot-centric" character straight, they just decided that Cassandra should be the one who came up with the idea of forming the Inquisition and she just happened to be straight. 

 

 

You say this as if they never made the straight characters the plot central ones.... Okay, in DA2 everyone was bisexual, so the question of which sexual orientation will get the plot central characters didn't occur, but in DAO, where not all characters had been bisexual, the plot central characters were Alistar and Morrigan - the straight ones.

[Fialka]

 

The advisors are more plot-centric than the companions.

Well, then... one of the advisors is straight, another is bi... So, the claim that the most plot-centric characters are straight still doesn't hold.  So.. so far we have two straight 'important' characters, and one bi one.  If my theories regarding Solas hold true (that he's pretty important to the main plot/will be a bi LI) then that's another bi 'important' character.  Could they/should they have created a gay character on par with them... probably.  But, they already made a pretty bold move in making two very attractive, sought after characters exclusively gay, and that's wonderful, but it's also gotten them a lot of backlash (which I bet they were expecting, but did it anyway) and i don't think we should look down on Bioware for not taking it even further.

[LiaraShepard]

Never understood it either.

 

Why does it matter so much wether your romance is important to the plot? I'm genuinely curious.

 

well, I just felt more connected with Anders than with Fenris. Fenris always seemed to be out of the story plot like a minor character. The romance with Anders felt greater because of his story relevance. 

[Sporothrix]

You're making a lot of assumptions there. I could assume that since they have been shown a lot more in demos, Dorian, Sera, and Iron Bull are much more relevant to the plot. As a matter of fact, I have every reason to assume Dorian is based on the last one... but I prefer to go by the devs comment that all characters will be important in certain situations.

 

Cassandra was in previous game, holds very important position in game's world, seems to be tied to game's narrative, had her own movie and narrated trailer for DAI. Meanwhile, Sera had funny banter and possibly dropped dead in demo. And I've read people saying that she will be probably like Leliana in DAO - you could miss her entirely, and her absence wouldn't make much difference.

[SnakeCode]

You're not getting my point. Why did the writers make Cass straight? I have no idea, but the reason could be as simple as "they felt like it". The same goes for Sera, Dorian, and Cullen. Now you may think that reason is stupid, but I repeat that as a writer myself I'm not able to change my characters' orientation even if I try. And my reason for giving them that orientation in the first place is as simple as "it just seems right".

 

Now, you may find that reason silly, but a writer's relationship with their characters doesn't have all that much in common with how the fans relate to other people's characters. You can say "But why don't you make him straight? It would be really easy!". But I can't. I mean I literally can't. At that point those characters are very close to being real to me. Wouldn't you say changing a person's orientation it's shady? It would just feel wrong.

 

I think we all could use a reminder that fictional characters are property of the author first, not the fans. No matter how badly we may want to play with them, they're not ours and we don't get to make the call. If you really can't help it, well, there's always fanfiction. Or original fiction, if you feel like going and making your own.

 

In short, don't tell a writer what to do with their toys, will you?

This reminds me of how JK Rowling said she tried everything she could to make Harry Potter a girl, but in the end she just couldn't bring herself to do it, as she'd originally thought of him as a boy.

[Milan92]

well, I just felt more connected with Anders than with Fenris. Fenris always seemed to be out of the story plot like a minor character. The romance with Anders felt greater because of his story relevance. 

 

I guess. I personally enjoyed the Leliana romance more than the Morrigan romance.

[Vegeta 77]

People moaning cause cass is plot centric you don´t know she is. And if she is so what your just useing that excuse cause she is straight and you don´t get her. Sera might be inportant to the plot i don´t care.

[jtav]

In DA "plot-centric" translates to angst and having to pick a specific set of endgame choices. I romance Zev and Leli quite often.

[Fialka]

Never understood it either.

 

Why does it matter so much wether your romance is important to the plot? I'm genuinely curious.

I'm kind of with you there... I mean, let's take a look at the plot-relevant romance we've seen in DA so far:

 

Alistair, depending on your choices, will either dump you, die, or keep you as his mistress (potentially while marrying someone else).

Morrigan, arguably, only got close to you with the intention of completing her task, and depending on your choices will either leave you immediately, or leave you later.

Anders lies to you to further his goals, then does his thing, and, depending on your choices is probably killed by you, or kills himself (speculated, but strongly suggested).

Isabella also lies to you, and depending on your choices, leaves and never comes back.

 

Just saying, relevant to plot =/= better romance.

[Sporothrix]

I'm not defending anyone or anything beside the writers's decisions.  The writers decided the character sexuality before they decided the LIs and if the last few ones were designed has straight or homosexual and not bisexual that is what they will be.

 

It's not because one orientation get one less choice that the writers hates them.

 

When that 'one orientation' is the same as always, you can't expect people who have been already mistreated numerous times before to act like nothing happened and buy explanations that it's only by 'accident'.

[Milan92]

I'm kind of with you there... I mean, let's take a look at the plot-relevant romance we've seen in DA so far:

 

Alistair, depending on your choices, will either dump you, die, or keep you as his mistress (potentially while marrying someone else).

Morrigan, arguably, only got close to you with the intention of completing her task, and depending on your choices will either leave you immediately, or leave you later.

Anders lies to you to further his goals, then does his thing, and, depending on your choices is probably killed by you, or kills himself  (speculated, but strongly suggested).

Isabella also lies to you, and depending on your choices, leaves and never comes back.

 

Just saying, relevant to plot =/= better romance.

 

Oh dear. Does this mean Cassandra is gonna break our hearts? 

[Xilizhra]

I'm kind of with you there... I mean, let's take a look at the plot-relevant romance we've seen in DA so far:

 

Alistair, depending on your choices, will either dump you, die, or keep you as his mistress (potentially while marrying someone else).

Morrigan, arguably, only got close to you with the intention of completing her task, and depending on your choices will either leave you immediately, or leave you later.

Anders lies to you to further his goals, then does his thing, and, depending on your choices is probably killed by you, or kills himself (speculated, but strongly suggested).

Isabella also lies to you, and depending on your choices, leaves and never comes back.

 

Just saying, relevant to plot =/= better romance.

It frequently leads to a better story. Also, it's entirely possible to never have any of the actual wrong-goings you mentioned go wrong, due to your own choices. Also, Morrigan is the only one the Warden can actually stay with in the end.

[Fialka]

Oh dear. Does this mean Cassandra is gonna break our hearts? 

YES. 

[Milan92]

YES. 

 

Rude

[jtav]

Within the context of DA, I will gladly take reduced plot importance because I don't like having my decisions hamstrung. To this day, I haven't successfully romanced Alistair because it requires a pretty specific playthrough.

[Fialka]

Rude

Sorry... Bad joke!  I just couldn't resist...  

[Milan92]

Sorry... Bad joke!  I just couldn't resist...  

 

No I meant rude on Cassandra's part