19658 réponses à ce sujet

[fiveforchaos]

Haven't read the comic, where's the misogyny? Does he make her quit her job?
As being a useless father and wanting to go back to a job he is skilled at don't seem to suggest that.

Hmmm... I've already analyzed the most likely directions this conversation is going to go and it's not looking like one that either of us will find fulfilling or pleasant. Perhaps if we tried really hard to stay mild mannered about the whole thing we'd have a shot, but I already blew that to pieces by allowing myself to post what essentially amounted to an enraged rant. So clearly I won't be handling myself well in this conversation, and the way you phrased your question makes me feel like there might be some hit nerves for you as well.

 

Or another interpretation of your post is that you thought I was talking about Thane being misogynistic, when I was mostly referring to the writing. 

 

 

My apologies, I shouldn't have made that post. It was a moment of weakness on my part. No matter how I disapointed I was with that plotline, I shouldn't have made a post that was so clearly off topic and likely to pointlessly insight irrelevant debate/arguing. I also shouldn't have used such harsh, and divisive language when making that post, as it added nothing to its value and potentially alienated some of its readers. Had it not already been quoted, I would delete it. 

 

On topic, what do you guys think of the Iron Bull romance creating a "dent" it looks like our desire to have plot relevant romances might have come true, but perhaps we should have been careful what we wish for . 

[LiaraShepard]

Looks fine.I think it may be a problem with some shadows or something in the video.

 

 

lol okay. yes, let's see how it looks in the final game.

[wildannie]

Maybe I'm missing something but iron bull equally seems to play to stereotypes of male attractiveness, beefcake etc.

 

Iron Bull is repulsive looking to me,  I'm sure he's a lovely guy but that's not a stereotype of an attractive male.  He looks like he's on steroids (not a good thing) muscles are nice, especially on an athletic build but muscles like Iron Bulls are taking it too far - that's beyond body building stuff and imho there's nothing less attractive than a overblown body builder.  

 

Edit: his face, head size and horns all add to what is already an unattractive package,  I don't think I could even subject my Female Qunari to that... maybe I can make a really ugly male Qunari for him.

[venusara]

Going off of what I've read on the BSN, it seems as though both straight men and gay men would prefer to play as a lesbian given a second choice of gender/sexuality romance combination. I don't find it hard to believe that the majority of gamers that will play DA:I as a female PC who romances a male in game will identify in rl as a female. I wonder if the fact that woman purchase significantly less games (due to not being considered or welcome, but that's a different topic) is the reason that the straight female options are more apt to unconventionalism? Any thoughts?

[fiveforchaos]

Going off of what I've read on the BSN, it seems as though both straight men and gay men would prefer to play as a lesbian given a second choice of gender/sexuality romance combination. I don't find it hard to believe that the majority of gamers that will play DA:I as a female PC who romances a male in game will identify in rl as a female. I wonder if the fact that woman purchase significantly less games (due to not being considered or welcome, but that's a different topic) is the reason that the straight female options are more apt to unconventionalism? Any thoughts?

Unconventionalism is hard though... you put more effort into an unconventional romance that you do a conventional one, just look at how much design work went into Thane. You'd think that if they cared less about their female players they'd put less effort into making their romances interesting/unique.

[Roamingmachine]

Be still my throbbing...

heart.

Damn this thread is moving way too fast to keep up >.<

Some people (me for one) like the scarred, powerful look. To me, the above picture is of an incredibly attractive person who is both obviously powerful and has the scars to prove her determination to survive. The body has become a tapestry telling the story of the life she has lived Let us never forget folks, that beauty is in the eye of the beholder

[Reznore57]

Going off of what I've read on the BSN, it seems as though both straight men and gay men would prefer to play as a lesbian given a second choice of gender/sexuality romance combination. I don't find it hard to believe that the majority of gamers that will play DA:I as a female PC who romances a male in game will identify in rl as a female. I wonder if the fact that woman purchase significantly less games (due to not being considered or welcome, but that's a different topic) is the reason that the straight female options are more apt to unconventionalism? Any thoughts?

 

Well in DAI the straight female option, Cullen , is very conventional .

The Iron Bull , as a bisexual romance , is more "exotic"?

[Char]

Going off of what I've read on the BSN, it seems as though both straight men and gay men would prefer to play as a lesbian given a second choice of gender/sexuality romance combination. I don't find it hard to believe that the majority of gamers that will play DA:I as a female PC who romances a male in game will identify in rl as a female. I wonder if the fact that woman purchase significantly less games (due to not being considered or welcome, but that's a different topic) is the reason that the straight female options are more apt to unconventionalism? Any thoughts?

No idea. I do have to say that I have absolutely no problem with unconventional options being available to me- it takes thought and effort after all, and can be very rewarding in some respects I think the 'conventional' people are missing out

[Herr Uhl]

The main thing I don't like about the look of IB is the scraggly ass beard. I want to attack him with a razor.

[venusara]

Iron Bull is repulsive looking to me,  I'm sure he's a lovely guy but that's not a stereotype of an attractive male.  He looks like he's on steroids (not a good thing) muscles are nice, especially on an athletic build but muscles like Iron Bulls are taking it too far - that's beyond body building stuff and imho there's nothing less attractive than a overblown body builder.  
 
Edit: his face, head size and horns all add to what is already an unattractive package,  I don't think I could even subject my Female Qunari to that... maybe I can make a really ugly male Qunari for him.

Honestly when I first saw him I thought Labyrinth of Crete, and his personality as obnoxious alpha male doesn't sound much better.

[azarhal]

I'll go with that

 

Seriously, I don't mind if there's the standard issue 2/2/2 LI non gated so that everyone gets options, and then experimental LIs for either gender as a bonus.

 

The only reasons why 2/2/2  non race-gated is possible is because Iron Bull was un-gated in the last ~40 days. There was 3 gated LIs before (maybe even more, IB might not have been the only one with technical issues).

 

IB might also be one of the "extra".

[venusara]

Unconventionalism is hard though... you put more effort into an unconventional romance that you do a conventional one, just look at how much design work went into Thane. You'd think that if they cared less about their female players they'd put less effort into making their romances interesting/unique.

I don't think Bioware cares less, but I think they are more likely to take risks with female gamers. I think there's some merit to that too, as woman are more socially inclined to roll with the punches when not in control of things. And I also agree that sometimes it is to a delightful benefit.

[wildannie]

Unconventionalism is hard though... you put more effort into an unconventional romance that you do a conventional one, just look at how much design work went into Thane. You'd think that if they cared less about their female players they'd put less effort into making their romances interesting/unique.

 

I'm a bit disappointed at the prospect of having two of three LIs available to straight female pcs being 'unconventional'.  I love varric but romance with him only really makes sense for me with a dwarf PC,  the height difference is not something I can get my head around,  I guess I'm just too conventional.  

 

But it may be that if the majority of players are male and straight that putting 'unconventional' content in for the minority female gamers, allows them to put it in without rocking the boat with the majority.

 

I've been happy enough with LIs in previous DA games so I guess I can't complain if it is my turn to be a bit disappointed.

[Eudaemonium]

Going off of what I've read on the BSN, it seems as though both straight men and gay men would prefer to play as a lesbian given a second choice of gender/sexuality romance combination. I don't find it hard to believe that the majority of gamers that will play DA:I as a female PC who romances a male in game will identify in rl as a female. I wonder if the fact that woman purchase significantly less games (due to not being considered or welcome, but that's a different topic) is the reason that the straight female options are more apt to unconventionalism? Any thoughts?

 

I'm a (technically) straight man, but I have a weird propensity for playing straight female characters (I'm willing to bet that I'm likely a massive exception to the rule, though). My main romances in Bioware games were Alistair/Zevran and Fenris in DA and Garrus in ME. DA:I might actually have me break this pattern and play as either a lesbian (for Sera) or as a bisexual male (to be torn between Cass and Dorian, who are the two romances that interest me most so far).

That said, I wouldn;t exactly say that Alistair, Zevran, Anders, Sebastian or even Fenris (who is the most 'exotic' prior to DA:I) come really anywhere close to unconventional in terms of their appearances. And in DA:I only IB really ticks the unconventional box. Cullen is very conventional.

 

EDIT: I will fully admit that you are correct vis-a-vis ME. But ME has, I think, always catered more to a straight male fantasy than DA.

[venusara]

Well in DAI the straight female option, Cullen , is very conventional .
The Iron Bull , as a bisexual romance , is more "exotic"?

But as I mentioned before, Cullen is also a new type of romance for DA. He is an NCP, who will not have the banter or same role-playing abilities as a full party member. Cullen is "experimental".

[Pateu]

Going off of what I've read on the BSN, it seems as though both straight men and gay men would prefer to play as a lesbian given a second choice of gender/sexuality romance combination.

 

Duh. The closest thing to being a straight man ( being a straight man excluded ) is being a lesbian.

 

It's not a revelation, honestly.

[Reznore57]

But as I mentioned before, Cullen is also a new type of romance for DA. He is an NCP, who will not have the banter or same role-playing abilities as a full party member. Cullen is "experimental".

 

True.I was mostly talking about looks.

[LiaraShepard]

But as I mentioned before, Cullen is also a new type of romance for DA. He is an NCP, who will not have the banter or same role-playing abilities as a full party member. Cullen is "experimental".

 

but he'll have banter, and it seems you can take him on missions too. and I think he'll have a big role in the game.

[fiveforchaos]

I don't think Bioware cares less, but I think they are more likely to take risks with female gamers. I think there's some merit to that too, as woman are more socially inclined to roll with the punches when not in control of things. And I also agree that sometimes it is to a delightful benefit.

Some very delightful benefits.

 

 

I'm a bit disappointed at the prospect of having two of three LIs available to straight female pcs being 'unconventional'.  I love varric but romance with him only really makes sense for me with a dwarf PC,  the height difference is not something I can get my head around,  I guess I'm just too conventional.  

 

But it may be that if the majority of players are male and straight that putting 'unconventional' content in for the minority female gamers, allows them to put it in without rocking the boat with the majority.

 

I've been happy enough with LIs in previous DA games so I guess I can't complain if it is my turn to be a bit disappointed.

As a female gamer who prefers unconventional I benefit quite a bit from this. The more conventional LI's from the previous games were nice, but not completely my thing I'm looking forward to some nice variety. Sucks we can't both get what we want thought.

[Fialka]

It is interesting that while all the female companions/advisors wouldn't look out of place among the super-models in any modern fashion magazine, the male companions are all over the place, and only two are really conventionally attractive.  As a straight woman, I'm not sure whether to find this frustrating or complimentary.  

 

I do think though, that straight female gamers are more likely to choose a less attractive LI if he has a great personality than straight male gamers are.  Most of the 'ew all the characters are fugly' threads seem to be started by straight males complaining about the women not being hot enough.  Where the straight women concerned about the choice of LIs seem more focused on personality and whether they'll have a guy who will suit their characters.

 

i am over-generalizing of course, and there are notable exceptions to both... It's just interesting that the devs seem more willing to challenge the standard when it comes to male LIs than female ones.  At least physically.... I'm still a bit concerned that my choices will be from a pool of rugged warrior alpha male types, and I will continue to pine away for the cerebral nerdmance I've always wanted...

[venusara]

I'm a bit disappointed at the prospect of having two of three LIs available to straight female pcs being 'unconventional'.  I love varric but romance with him only really makes sense for me with a dwarf PC,  the height difference is not something I can get my head around,  I guess I'm just too conventional.  
 
But it may be that if the majority of players are male and straight that putting 'unconventional' content in for the minority female gamers, allows them to put it in without rocking the boat with the majority.
 
I've been happy enough with LIs in previous DA games so I guess I can't complain if it is my turn to be a bit disappointed.

DA:O was the first game I'd ever played where I felt like the game designers actually considered my perspective as a female gamer. I hold the DA series up upon a pedestal of what I believe the future of gaming to be, so that is why I am a tiny bit disappointed.

[fiveforchaos]

DA:O was the first game I'd ever played where I felt like the game designers actually considered my perspective as a female gamer. I hold the DA series up upon a pedestal of what I believe the future of gaming to be, so that is why I am a tiny bit disappointed.

I don't understand, why are you disappointed?