19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Kallimachus]

I was listening to the romance panel recording from GaymerX, about how they try to write romances for charaters for same sex or opposite sex and then feel like the romance doesn't work for one of those options, and so they either try a different approach or "gate" the romance for just one gender option, and a thought ocurred to me.

 

In all three games in the series there is always one guy LI who is a sort of knight-in-shining-armour, religious, holy-ish, paladin-like type figure. And always, this type of character (you know who I'm talking about) is strictly straight (even in DA2 which is often maligned for making "everyone bisexual"). Always. In this game, we even got a female character that fits this description, not just a guy, and guess what? Straight. So what is it about that sort of characters that makes the writers think they don't work as same sex LI? I'm not sure what to make of this.

[HuldraDancer]

Waiting for a game you are looking forward to is one of the worst things ever, I'm glad Tales of Xillia 2 is coming out in August or I'd go nuts 

 

At least you'll get to play it when you get your copy at least I'll be forced to know I have the game but be made to wait an extra few weeks before I'm allowed to play it   And you have that other game to tie you over so that's good right?

[Allan Schumacher]

I can see why BioWare doesn't feel giving equal options to people who want to play dwarves or qunari or elves (or humans, for that matter) is as important as giving options to women and gay/lesbian players. And obviously there is not the same real world equality issue here.

 

But. Well.

 

I have never been able to play a human female protagonist who is remotely the same shape as me in any video game. I've never even seen one, and I don't really expect to given what video game protagonists and women in the media generally look like. While I may be a foot too tall to be a Dragon Age dwarf, part of the appeal of playing them is getting to build a hero who's short and curvy and solid just like me.

 

So when people talk about race-gating, I can't help hearing 'sorry, dwarves aren't attractive enough to go on this ride. Who'd want to romance a woman who looks like that?' And that makes me feel sad.

 

(repost old quote)

Hopefully you're in a happier place now

[Maria Caliban]

In all three games in the series there is always one guy LI who is a sort of knight-in-shining-armour, religious, holy-ish, paladin-like type figure. And always, this type of character (you know who I'm talking about) is strictly straight (even in DA2 which is often maligned for making "everyone bisexual"). Always. In this game, we even got a fenale character that fits this description, not just a guy, and guess what? Straight. So what is it about that sort of characters that makes the writers think they don't work as same sex LI? I'm not sure what to make of this.

I have three words for you: Queer female rogues.

Writers are human and humans tends to have preconceptions about what different people are like. This is something even gay and bisexual people struggle with and one of the reasons it's important to talk about these things.

Is there some lingering notion that our more 'noble, do-gooder' characters just feel more straight? Possibly.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

Only thing that will kill my eagerness for this game is if Sera isn't a romance for human females, I don't think this will happen since 80% of players play as humans but yeah thats the only thing I'm worried about. 

[SurelyForth]

 

In all three games in the series there is always one guy LI who is a sort of knight-in-shining-armour, religious, holy-ish, paladin-like type figure. And always, this type of character (you know who I'm talking about) is strictly straight (even in DA2 which is often maligned for making "everyone bisexual"). Always. In this game, we even got a fenale character that fits this description, not just a guy, and guess what? Straight. So what is it about that sort of characters that makes the writers think they don't work as same sex LI? I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

That's kind of a sticking point with a lot of people when it comes to Alistair, Seb, Cassandra, and Cullen. Especially since we have Leliana, who is actually a lay sister when we meet her, but who is the only one of the lot who is bi. And, surprise surprise, she has a background as an Orlesian spy/seductress. It almost feels like they're still bound by real world religions where homosexuality = deviancy (doesn't deviant come up in Dorian's profile?) I don't know if they have difficulty imagining a person who is both religious and gay or bisexual or what, but it's pretty frustrating to observe. 

 

it even pops up in me with ashley williams

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I was listening to the romance panel recording from GaymerX, about how they try to write romances for charaters for same sex or opposite sex and then feel like the romance doesn't work for one of those options, and so they either try a different approach or "gate" the romance for just one gender option, and a thought ocurred to me.

 

In all three games in the series there is always one guy LI who is a sort of knight-in-shining-armour, religious, holy-ish, paladin-like type figure. And always, this type of character (you know who I'm talking about) is strictly straight (even in DA2 which is often maligned for making "everyone bisexual"). Always. In this game, we even got a fenale character that fits this description, not just a guy, and guess what? Straight. So what is it about that sort of characters that makes the writers think they don't work as same sex LI? I'm not sure what to make of this.

Who is that character in DA2? I assume you mean Alistair and Cullen in DA:O and DA:I. Although, Alistair is actually not very religious at all.

 

Edit; you mean Sebastian, nvm. I try to forget he exists.

[Allan Schumacher]

A few posts led to me creating this: http://forum.bioware...romance-tropes/

 

Please educate me! (in that thread, not this one).

[J-Reyno]

 

I was listening to the romance panel recording from GaymerX, about how they try to write romances for charaters for same sex or opposite sex and then feel like the romance doesn't work for one of those options, and so they either try a different approach or "gate" the romance for just one gender option, and a thought ocurred to me.

 

In all three games in the series there is always one guy LI who is a sort of knight-in-shining-armour, religious, holy-ish, paladin-like type figure. And always, this type of character (you know who I'm talking about) is strictly straight (even in DA2 which is often maligned for making "everyone bisexual"). Always. In this game, we even got a fenale character that fits this description, not just a guy, and guess what? Straight. So what is it about that sort of characters that makes the writers think they don't work as same sex LI? I'm not sure what to make of this.

I was just talking to someone about this exact thing the other day.  It's one of my frustrations with the LIs as well.  I honestly expected that we'd moved past that until Cassandra/Cullen were confirmed.  

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Although not really religious (but neither was Alistair, really) I think Kaidan was the "nice guy pretty boy" of ME and they made him bi.. later on. So, there's that? 

[Andraste_Reborn]

(repost old quote)

Hopefully you're in a happier place now

 

Indeed . The 'happier place' involves walking around humming Save A Horse (Ride A Cowboy) and planning how my dwarf is going to #ridethebull. (Unless Varric does turn out to be the last male LI, but at this point I honestly don't mind either way. Qunari love is good enough love for me.)

 

Also, John Epler should be the patron saint of interspecies BioWare romances.

[Kallimachus]

 

That still makes me pretty mad to this day.  If I could pick just one thing to ask BioWare to not do ever again in a romance, it would be having a any bisexual character hide their romantic past that they have had same gender from the PC.  Anders hiding his past relationship with Karl from a female Hawke was really a poor call on the part of the writers.

 

I'm going to disagree with you there. On two counts. First Anders description of his relationship with Karl to the male Hawk is the very definition of pansexuality. Nothing ambiguous at all about it. The ambiguous bisexual romances are the two elves. - who never make any reference to their own sexuality.

 

Moreover, Anders failure to mention his sexual past to female Hawke strikes me as completely realistic. Anders is attracted to Hawke from the very beginning. He wants to have "a shot" so to speak with Hawke. Telling a guy that you have a romantic history with guys serves to check the water and see what the other guy's feelings are in regard to homosexuality in general, as well as a subtle way to start figuring out if the guy in front of you is attracted to guys at all. It's a "technique" I see employed all the time, especially if you may have to worry about the other guy turning hostile if you insinuate he might be gay (which, let's face it is always an option IRL, if not in Thedas. LGBT people are still the minority most likely to be assaulted, according to FBI reports).

 

When hitting on a woman, that same information might serve the exact opposite result. Women, for the most part, and with some exceptions, are less likely to respond to your advances, if they know you have a sexual/romantic history with guys. Some may just write you off as a potential partner, others might even turn hostile. I have bisexual friends, and very few of them will reveal their being bisexual to a woman until they have been to a few dates at least. And Anders' telling Hawke about his relationship with Karl comes VERY early in their relationship. It is what? Their second conversation? And Anders have not even yet expressed his interest in Hawke. Why would he do something that would quite possibly ruin his chances right from the start?

 

Now, it is possible to find fault with the writers for not adding another conversation about Karl with female Hawke later in the game, but IIRC the topic of Karl is never brought up again, and perhaps this conversation would have just been an expenditure of resources they didn't have. You can head-cannon  that Anders told female Hawke about it, or not. Presumably not every conversation they had over their (at least) 7 years relationship is in the game.

[Ninjasplaycardgames2]

Aaaaand post #500, I can now go to sleep, bye all.

[JadePrince]

I just wanted to say that I have a very good feeling about the rest of the LI. After this weekend, and the general feeling of the panels (and panelists), I really don't think the last two unannounced LIs will be straight. I mean, I know it was an LGBT convention, but nothing they said suggested to me that we (LGBT gamers) should temper our expectations of fairness with regard to the romances. If anything, they stressed that straight gamers had nothing to complain about (on the subject of the addition of more LGBT romances than before somehow 'taking away from' the straight players options) since they have two announced LI each (for straight guys and for straight girls), which is the same number they've always had. 

 

After all that, I just really don't think they'd throw in any extra straight exclusives. 

[Allan Schumacher]

Merely out of curiosity, is there going to be an attractive female option for straight male players?  Or are we stuck with the ugly?  

 

Given that I disagree that Josie or Cassandra are ugly, I don't feel concerned about attractive female options.

 

The only other possible character is Vivienne, at this point, so you probably already know the answer.

 

 

I'll elaborate, however, that every game will have players that ultimately don't find any of the love interests attractive.  It may be that way for you this game, unfortunately for you.

[JadePrince]

So... how do you block people on this thing?

[Ailith Tycane]

So... how do you block people on this thing?

 

Top of the page, click your name, go down to "manage ignore prefs"

[Grieving Natashina]

 

Kallimachus, on 14 Jul 2014 - 12:31 AM, said:

I'm going to disagree with you there. On two counts. First Anders description of his relationship with Karl to the male Hawk is the very definition of pansexuality. Nothing ambiguous at all about it. The ambiguous bisexual romances are the two elves. - who never make any reference to their own sexuality.

 

 

How is the player supposed to know about that without meta-gaming?   He never tells the female Hawke and he certainly never talks about an attraction to men during the game outside of that instance, or to a female.  I know he's bi, but my problem is that the DA team choose to hide from a female Hawke.  It never will sit right with me. As you'll see, there is no lore reason for it at all.

 

Moreover, Anders failure to mention his sexual past to female Hawke strikes me as completely realistic. Anders is attracted to Hawke from the very beginning. He wants to have "a shot" so to speak with Hawke. Telling a guy that you have a romantic history with guys serves to check the water and see what the other guy's feelings are in regard to homosexuality in general, as well as a subtle way to start figuring out if the guy in front of you is attracted to guys at all.

 

It's a "technique" I see employed all the time, especially if you may have to worry about the other guy turning hostile if you insinuate he might be gay (which, let's face it is always an option IRL, if not in Thedas. LGBT people are still the minority most likely to be assaulted, according to FBI reports).

 

 

 

See, that's where you're wrong.  It does not make sense within the context of the lore.  I'll happily dig you up the quote from World of Thedas, but same-sex relationships aren't a big deal througout most cultures.  In fact, the only country that has any sort of issue with it is Tevinter, and even then they don't care as long as it's only done with the slaves.  

 

If anything, he should have been more scared to tell a Male Hawke, if abuse was a concern or rejection was a concern.

 

When hitting on a woman, that same information might serve the exact opposite result. Women, for the most part, and with some exceptions, are less likely to respond to your advances, if they know you have a sexual/romantic history with guys. Some may just write you off as a potential partner, others might even turn hostile. I have bisexual friends, and very few of them will reveal their being bisexual to a woman until they have been to a few dates at least. And Anders' telling Hawke about his relationship with Karl comes VERY early in their relationship. It is what? Their second conversation? And Anders have not even yet expressed his interest in Hawke. Why would he do something that would quite possibly ruin his chances right from the start?

 

 

Again, there was no reasons for the writers to do this.  Zero.  Your analogy does not work in Thedas at all.  In one of the first conversations he admits to being an abomination in front of someone he's not sure will tell the Templars  He could have made up some bs "a wizard did it excuse," and hoped for the best.  In a world where same sex relationships are treated as just a part of life (some are gay, some are straight, some are bi and it's not a big deal,) sudden fear of being rejected because of his sexuality is immersion breaking. He should have told a female Hawke about Karl and I hope BioWare never hides a bisexual man's oritientaion like that every again.  

 

By the way, it doesn't take very long at all for Isabela to talk about her past sexual history with women.  The only things I'm seeing here is a double standard that doesn't fit in with the lore; accidental bisexual male erasure; and another double standard that it's okay for women to be bisexual, but men can't.  I'm not going to headcanon something that didn't happen.  He never told a female Hawke and I'm not using headcanon for something that should have not been excluded in the first place. 

 

 

 

 

 

[JadePrince]

Top of the page, click your name, go down to "manage ignore prefs"

 

Thank you!

[Allan Schumacher]

How is the player supposed to know about that without meta-gaming?   He never tells the female Hawke and he certainly never talks about an attraction to men during the game outside of that instance, or to a female.  I know he's bi, but my problem is that the DA team choose to hide from a female Hawke.  It never will sit right with me. As you'll see, there is no lore reason for it at all.

 

Would the circumstances be more amenable if Anders' bisexuality was presented differently, later?  Your issue is with erasure, correct?  So if other events ensured erasure didn't happen, how does the scene work?  (it's okay if it still doesn't)

[TheodoricFriede]

Has anything new been announced over the weekend? I have doubts, but for some reason got the impression that its a possibility.

[JadePrince]

Has anything new been announced over the weekend? I have doubts, but for some reason got the impression that its a possibility.

 

 Just Iron Bull as non-gated, bisexual. 

[TheodoricFriede]

 Just Iron Bull as non-gated, bisexual. 

Really? Thats unexpected. Maybe Varric has a shot after all.

[TheJediSaint]

Who has two thumbs and is a straight gamer satisfied with his potential love interests?  

 

 

<-----This guy.

[TheodoricFriede]

Who has two thumbs and is a straight gamer satisfied with his potential love interests?  

 

 

<-----This guy.

I wish i could say the same, but i can not.

 

Im fairly certain i wont be romancing anyone very often. Not as a male character anyway.