19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Ianamus]

Bioware owes gay men nothing. It owes lesbian women nothing. It owes straight women, straight men, bisexual women and bisexual men nothing. 

[Gwydden]

I agree, too.

Just for the hypothetical discussion though, what if we got a lesbian Vivienne and a bisexual guy? Then straight men (the group that has had far and away more total options in bioware game romances) would have 2 (the same # they've always had in DA games) and the other 3 (traditionally disenfranchised) groups would each have 3 options, a nice apology for those groups getting the short end of the sick in bioware games.

I mean, I know there would probably be chaos, but I can't say i'd really feel bad if they did something like that?

Although I would be perfectly okay with this (in some ways, I would even prefer it) I don't think BioWare owes anyone an apology. Asking them to apologize for not including as many homosexual, bisexual, or male love interests in their games is like a beggar asking a pedestrian to apologize for only giving him half a dollar. Does it suck that it is so little? Sure, but it's still more than practically everyone else out there is willing to give you.

[TK514]

I'm still trying to figure out why BioWare needs to apologize for anything.

[Vegeta 77]

I would like it to be equal and not you owe me more options bioware.

[Ryzaki]

Bioware owes gay men nothing. It owes lesbian women nothing. It owes straight women, straight men, bisexual women and bisexual men nothing. 

 

This.

 

Would it be nice for devs to give a group that usually gets the lowest amount of options the most? YMMV. (I'd say yes but again YMMV).

 

Do they owe it to them? No.

[lil yonce]

I agree, too.

Just for the hypothetical discussion though, what if we got a lesbian Vivienne and a bisexual guy? Then straight men (the group that has had far and away more total options in bioware game romances) would have 2 (the same # they've always had in DA games) and the other 3 (traditionally disenfranchised) groups would each have 3 options, a nice apology for those groups getting the short end of the sick in bioware games.

I mean, I know there would probably be chaos, but I can't say i'd really feel bad if they did something like that?

I'm a straight female but for a few reasons I tend to play straight male characters, so while this thing against more than two straight male player options isn't aimed at me, I would suffer too, so I'm against it. I think the options should be fair. I think this is what we'll wind up with:

 

Straight: Cullen, Cassandra

Gay: Dorian, Sera

Bi: Solas, IronBull*, Vivienne, Josephine Yes, I know Ironbull is technically Pansexual.

[JadePrince]

I don't know if sometimes people realize what they say about fairness and equality compared every single time to the past and history, like, " we were disadvantaged, it's their turn, it's only fair and justice. Or it is fine because they never were disadvantaged "

I have never changed my stance. If it's unfair, it's unfair. The past doesn't matter. And it's silly because, you have new people with new games, they never did anything to justify Bioware being unfair to them.

The past is the past, history is history. It can't be changed, but it can be improved. In real life, I don't ask for white people to be disadvantaged because black people were / still are discriminated. I just want equality for everyone, and discriminations to be erased everywhere regardless of the past.

And It's been a long time that i'm thinking this, but I stayed silent because I kinda understand where this feeling comes from. But really, it is wrong.

But that's the thing, right? Bioware wouldn't be taking options away from straight guys, they would just be giving more options to the group's who traditionally had much much less. I don't see how that's horribly unfair. It smacks of "I've always had more options so either it has to stay that way or just give everyone equal choices. I can't imagine/ handle a world where someone else gets more than me, even once."

The past DOES matter. You can't just ignore that straight men have always had more when having these discussions.

(There are some great, understanding, and totally chill straight dudes on these forums and in this thread who have said they are happy with getting 2 options even if someone else gets 3. Kudos to you, guys. You know I'm not talking about you. )

[JadePrince]

Fyi, nowhere have I said that Bioware OWES lgbt players. I don't think anyone here is saying that.

I hope that are last 2 LIs are bisexual Vivienne and another bisexual dude. I'm just saying I don't think it would be wrong or evil if bioware did choose to throw an extra at the traditionally disenfranchised groups, that's all.

[Lilium]

I'm a straight female but for a few reasons I tend to play straight male characters, so while this thing against more straight male player options isn't aimed at me, I would suffer too, so I'm against it. I think the options should be fair. I think this is what we'll wind up with:

 

Straight: Cullen, Cassandra

Gay: Dorian, Sera

Bi: Solas, IronBull*, Vivienne, Josephine Yes, I know Ironbull is technically Pansexual.

 

Who'd you peck as the race-gated ones? I really don't see Solas being race-gated 

[daveliam]

I don't know if sometimes people realize what they say about fairness and equality compared every single time to the past and history, like, " we were disadvantaged, it's their turn, it's only fair and justice. Or it is fine because they never were disadvantaged " 

 

I have never changed my stance. If it's unfair, it's unfair. The past doesn't matter. And it's silly because, you have new people with new games, they never did anything to justify Bioware being unfair to them. 

 

The past is the past, history is history. It can't be changed, but it can be improved. In real life, I don't ask for white people to be disadvantaged because black people were / still are discriminated. I just want equality for everyone, and discriminations to be erased everywhere regardless of the past. 

 

And It's been a long time that i'm thinking this, but I stayed silent because I kinda understand where this feeling comes from. But really, it is wrong.

 

If anyone says that straight men should receive less options because others received more in the past, then they are as wrong as the people who think that straight should get more options because "there are more of them". 

 

The point I was trying to make is that if it is not equal, then it would be nice for a different group (particularly one who has never gotten "more") to be the ones to get an extra romance this time around.  NOT that we are owed anything. 

 

Bioware owes gay men nothing. It owes lesbian women nothing. It owes straight women, straight men, bisexual women and bisexual men nothing. 

 

Correct, so that is why it would be nice to see a different group get the "extra" options this time around, since it's not like the 'extra romance' "belongs" to any one group.

 

This.

 

Would it be nice for devs to give a group that usually gets the lowest amount of options the most? YMMV. (I'd say yes but again YMMV).

 

Do they owe it to them? No.

 

I agree with you on this.  Nothing is owed, but it would certainly be nice to not be able to say that I have always gotten the least amount of options in a Bioware game.  Would I picket and protest if straight guys got Vivienne and straight gals got Varric?  Nope, but I would be lying if I said that it wouldn't be a bit of a bummer.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

"An eye for an eye will just leave the whole world blind."

 

Always think this quote when there is the whole "They should have less options because they had more than us before." argument occurs. 

[daveliam]

"An eye for an eye will just leave the whole world blind."

 

Always think this quote when there is the whole "They should have less options because they had more than us before." argument occurs. 

 

This is true in one context.  It's also disingenuous to apply this to a group of people who have consistently gotten less content and are asking for a "turn" at getting some more options.

[Tenebrae]

Unfortunately these days behind much of our talk about equality lies hypocrisy. When we talk about equality, we should mean that we have no superiors and no inferiors. Others should be to our right or left; not above or below. What we usually mean by equality is that we should have no superiors. No one above us; plenty below.

 

You must examine your view of equality. If you only talk about equality or invoke it when referring to a singler group while conveniently ignoring other groups when it suits you, then chances are your idea of equality is hypocritical.

 

And hypocritical equality is not equality.

[Parkimus]

I don't see the point of getting all hot and bothered (..ehehe) about who's going to have more choices since someone's inevitably going to lose out.

[JadePrince]

"An eye for an eye will just leave the whole world blind."

Always think this quote when there is the whole "They should have less options because they had more than us before." argument occurs.

It doesn't apply because in the scenario we are discussing, bioware wouldn't be taking an option away from straight guys (they'd have 2 just like always), they would just, for once, be giving a little extra to lgbt players.

[Ryzaki]

I agree with you on this.  Nothing is owed, but it would certainly be nice to not be able to say that I have always gotten the least amount of options in a Bioware game.  Would I picket and protest if straight guys got Vivienne and straight gals got Varric?  Nope, but I would be lying if I said that it wouldn't be a bit of a bummer.

 

Oh I agree. I'd be a bit bummed if the last options were a gay male and bi female.

[lil yonce]

Who'd you peck as the race-gated ones? I really don't see Solas being race-gated 

Vivienne and Cullen. Vivienne being human-only and Cullen unromanceable with a dwarf.

[Ianamus]

I don't like the idea that some groups getting less options is more acceptable than other groups. I don't mind if there are extra options myself, and I don't mind who they go to. I don't care if they go to me or someone else, I don't care if they go to the group that had the most options in a previous Bioware game or not. 

 

You can say that people deserve it "because of previous games" but this argument makes no sense. Bioware games are standalone titles, Dragon Age games doubly so. 

 

Say a straight male plays Dragon Age Inquisition, and it's the first Bioware game he's ever played. Assume he has less options than gay men and straight women. Should he care if straight men in previous Dragon Age games tended to get more options when he never even played them? Does Bioware now owe him more options in an upcoming game?

 

As hard as it is for people I think they need to just forget about the previous games that gave them less or no options. I still see games like Baulders gate brought up with regards to overall LI availability across Bioware games, and I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people buying Inquisition have never even heard of it.

[The Elder King]

I don't see the point of getting all hot and bothered (..ehehe) about who's going to have more choices since someone's inevitably going to lose out.

Not really. The last two can be one female bi and one male bi. Everyone gets the same number of options.

[godModeAlpha]

On the subject of BioWare owing me stuff, BioWare owe me a game on 10 Oct 2014 @ 00:01 else it will be unfair.

[Dirgegun]

I'm a little intimidated of so many options just because 'Oh God, who am I going to choose first?!" 

 

I will have so many playthroughs of this game it will be ridiculous. 

[Parkimus]

Not really. The last two can be one female bi and one male bi. Everyone gets the same number of options.

 

Valid point, I suppose I'm just less optimistic

[Maria Caliban]

This is true in one context.  It's also disingenuous to apply this to a group of people who have consistently gotten less content and are asking for a "turn" at getting some more options.

Actually, as the one who wants it, I'm not trying to get myself more options. I'd like BioWare to show some love to gay dudes and straight women.

For some reason, this means I want to punish straight men. Because then they'd only have two LIs... even though lesbians would also only get two LIs.

I guess I want to punish lesbians for something too.

[daveliam]

I don't like the idea that some groups getting less options is more acceptable than other groups. I don't mind if there are extra options myself, and I don't mind who they go to. I don't care if they go to me or someone else, I don't care if they go to the group that had the most options in a previous Bioware game or not. 

 

 

This is NOT what people are saying though.  They are saying that within Bioware as a larger entity there have been some groups of people who haven't gotten the same treatment so, if this time around they decide to give one group an extra romance (not take anything away from other groups), then it would be nice if it could be the groups who traditionally haven't gotten the same amount of choices.  Just because you are not viewing it this way, doesn't invalidate the long time fans who do.

 

I do not understand why this request is seen as promoting inequality.  I seriously do not understand it.

[ManOfSteel]

Bioware owes gay men nothing. It owes lesbian women nothing. It owes straight women, straight men, bisexual women and bisexual men nothing. 

This right here. BioWare owes you nothing, regardless of your gender or sexual orientation.