19658 réponses à ce sujet

[pallascedar]

"An eye for an eye will just leave the whole world blind."

 

Always think this quote when there is the whole "They should have less options because they had more than us before." argument occurs. 

 

The context is really the context of discussing that there may be a 5/3 gender split in romances. And if this happens it won't happen because Bioware thought "Man, let's screw over straight men because they've gotten the most in the past." It'll happen because Bioware thought that more men made sense as romances than did women.

 

And though it's still unfair, it's more unfair to a group that has historically been catered to. It's not about reparations though: it's about characterization that ended up not being totally fair romance wise. Also, consider that they might have made these decisions under the context that IB originally would have been race gated. So if the final two reveals are race gated males, perhaps they were making up for IB's original race-gatings.

 

This isn't about vengeance (which is what that quote is about), we're just saying that if game mechanics are going to make romances necessarily unfair, at least it's better that it's unfair of groups that have historically been treated more poorly (women and gay men).

[The Elder King]

Valid point, I suppose I'm just less optimistic

I'm not necessarily optimistic. I personally don't care who the last two LI are and their sexualities. I'm fine with every possible scenario.

[Ianamus]

They are saying that within Bioware as a larger entity there have been some groups of people who haven't gotten the same treatment so, if this time around they decide to give one group an extra romance (not take anything away from other groups), then it would be nice if it could be the groups who traditionally haven't gotten the same amount of choices. 

 

That's just a nice way of saying "The extra options should go to us because we deserve them". 

[In Exile]

Actually, as the one who wants it, I'm not trying to get myself more options. I'd like BioWare to show some love to gay dudes and straight women.

For some reason, this means I want to punish straight men. Because then they'd only have two LIs... even though lesbians would also only get two LIs.

I guess I want to punish lesbians for something too.

I applaud your choice of phrasing. But maybe I just read in innuendo in everything.

[Milan92]

I'm very content with Cass and Josephine, not gonna ask for more.

[daveliam]

That's just a nice way of saying "The extra options should go to us because we deserve them". 

 

No, it's a nice way of saying "The extra options should go to someone who hasn't gotten them yet."  I'd be perfectly happy if lesbians got an extra option.  I'd be fine if straight women got an extra option since they've only gotten an extra option once and then got less options the very next time.  This has nothing about giving "me" anything extra.  It's about spreading the "extra" out more evenly.  Isn't that exactly what you were promoting earlier?

[Tenebrae]

This is NOT what people are saying though.  They are saying that within Bioware as a larger entity there have been some groups of people who haven't gotten the same treatment so, if this time around they decide to give one group an extra romance (not take anything away from other groups), then it would be nice if it could be the groups who traditionally haven't gotten the same amount of choices.  Just because you are not viewing it this way, doesn't invalidate the long time fans who do.

 

I do not understand why this request is seen as promoting inequality.  I seriously do not understand it.

 

Because if it was a straight man/woman saying the same thing most of those who supported this stance would be jumping down his/her throat calling him/her all sort of lovely nicknames.

 

Inequality is inequality no matter which way you slice it.

[Xilizhra]

Actually, as the one who wants it, I'm not trying to get myself more options. I'd like BioWare to show some love to gay dudes and straight women.

For some reason, this means I want to punish straight men. Because then they'd only have two LIs... even though lesbians would also only get two LIs.

I guess I want to punish lesbians for something too.

Straight women have already had a lot more than us, with the one exception of ME3, where options are more or less equal. So I think your own attempted apology skews things out far too much.

 

Personally, I don't give a damn how much straight men have, I just want decent numbers for ourselves and everyone else.

[DaySeeker]

I'm going to be too busy snogging Dorian and inappropriately groping the Iron Bull to pay attention, but I hope everyone is happy.  I think Solas and I will share scalp moisturizing tips no matter his preference. 

[daveliam]

Because if it was a straight man/woman saying the same thing most of those who supported this stance would be jumping down his/her throat calling him/her all sort of lovely nicknames.

 

If a straight man or woman said that they wished that a group that didn't get extra romances in the past got extra romances this time, they would (without a doubt) not have people jumping down their throats or calling them names.  See the straight men and women who did just that in this very thread, if you want examples.

 

If a straight man or woman said that straight people should get extra romances this time around, then they would not be taking the stance that I'm taking.

[pallascedar]

I guess I want to punish lesbians for something too.

 

Why you gotta be a hater Maria?

[Ianamus]

No, it's a nice way of saying "The extra options should go to someone who hasn't gotten them yet."  I'd be perfectly happy if lesbians got an extra option.  I'd be fine if straight women got an extra option since they've only gotten an extra option once and then got less options the very next time.  This has nothing about giving "me" anything extra.  It's about spreading the "extra" out more evenly.  Isn't that exactly what you were promoting earlier?

 

Why should people who have never played a Bioware game before get more or less options based on past games?

 

I promote all groups being treated equally, which excludes positive discrimination based on the past. 

[Black Jimmy]

Not really. The last two can be one female bi and one male bi. Everyone gets the same number of options.

Well, unless you're bisexual. Then you can have up to six. Lucky you

[Xilizhra]

No, it's a nice way of saying "The extra options should go to someone who hasn't gotten them yet."  I'd be perfectly happy if lesbians got an extra option.  I'd be fine if straight women got an extra option since they've only gotten an extra option once and then got less options the very next time.  This has nothing about giving "me" anything extra.  It's about spreading the "extra" out more evenly.  Isn't that exactly what you were promoting earlier?

I don't yet know what the point of having extra options to begin with would be.

[JadePrince]

That's just a nice way of saying "The extra options should go to us because we deserve them".

Wow, no one is saying that at all. The discussion has been very calm and civil and then you jump in and basically accuse us of being greedy? Almost everyone here is saying that they HOPE the options are even, BUT if for some reason they can't be, it would be nice for someone who has never gotten extra options to have a turn. How is that hard to understand?

[The Elder King]

Well, unless you're bisexual. Then you can have up to six. Lucky you

That will always happen, unless they'll make a game with not romances.

[Tenebrae]

If a straight man or woman said that they wished that a group that didn't get extra romances in the past got extra romances this time, they would (without a doubt) not have people jumping down their throats or calling them names.  See the straight men and women who did just that in this very thread, if you want examples.

 

If a straight man or woman said that straight people should get extra romances this time around, then they would not be taking the stance that I'm taking.

 

What i meant was that if a straight man or woman came here and said that they hope that the unannounced romance options were straight because they deserve it you would be calling them out on that, in my view a gay man/lesbian/bi saying the same thing is no different.

 

As i said inequality is inequality no matter which way you slice it,and just because you had it bad before doesn't mean you should hope others get the same treatment.

 

All that does is breed resentment.

[Xilizhra]

Wow, no one is saying that at all. The discussion has been very calm and civil and then you jump in and basically accuse us of being greedy? Almost everyone here is saying that they HOPE the options are even, BUT if for some reason they can't be, it would be nice for someone who has never gotten extra options to have a turn. How is that hard to understand?

But the 5/3 split will screw over another minority who's never gotten extra options.

[carlo angelo]

The thing is, when Bioware made those previous few games, there was a societal pressure to conform or sink, and to have any homosexual content then was a huge risk. It's only recently that we're seeing some steady improvement in terms of representation. I can only blame how narrow-minded the vocal few can be when it comes to pulling LGBTQ characters into the limelight. So as much as we can figure "whose turn is it to get the short end of the stick this time to even out the past discretions", Bioware is perhaps the only AAA video game company out there willing to make LGBTQ representation more prominent.

 

While I'd personally have no qualms about those who conventionally get less priority finally getting more attention over those who have been favoured more in the past, I can also understand where this sentiment comes from. I know we're still talking about Bioware, but of all the mainstream AAA games out there, what difference would it make to have just one game be just a tad more "queer" than those where LGBTQ characters are nowhere to be found? At the same time, I don't expect that to happen because I feel we already have it pretty good right now, and to ask anymore feels... ungrateful. For me, personally.

 

I get this is about equality and balance in the one game, but I'm seeing where Daveliam, JadePrince, and the lot who more or less fall into this line of thought come from. But again, I strongly doubt that we will be seeing another gay or lesbian character more than a bisexual or even a straight character because this game is "made up" to be geared for equal options (or close to)- but in the latter case, well... at least there's options still for those who want to play and or relate to a gay or lesbian Inquisitor.

 

 

I'm going to be too busy snogging Dorian and inappropriately groping the Iron Bull to pay attention, but I hope everyone is happy.  I think Solas and I will share scalp moisturizing tips no matter his preference. 

Anyway, I'll be with this guy, here.

[JadePrince]

What i meant was that if a straight man or woman came here and said that they hope that the unannounced romance options were straight because they deserve it you would be calling them out on that, in my view a gay man/lesbian/bi saying the same thing is no different.

As i said inequality is inequality no matter which way you slice it,and just because you had it bad before doesn't mean you should hope others get the same treatment.

All that does is breed resentment.

But it wouldn't be the same treatment. In the past there have been many bioware games where gay men (for example) have had 0 options. No one here is saying that Straight men should now have 0 options in revenge. You are assuming we are a lot more vindictive than we really are. Why?

[Former_Fiend]

That will always happen, unless they'll make a game with not romances.

 

Alternatively they could make it so that a straight or gay option would turn down a bisexual PC.

 

Not that I ever see them doing that, but it would be a way of going about it.

[Deviija]

 

I applaud your choice of phrasing. But maybe I just read in innuendo in everything.

 

It's Maria.  Reading in innuendo is appropriate.  

[daveliam]

Why should people who have never played a Bioware game before get more or less options based on past games?

 

I promote all groups being treated equally, which excludes positive discrimination based on the past. 

 

No one deserves less options.  We are talking about a hypothetical situation where someone is getting less options.  Why should people who have been loyal customers to Bioware get less options again just because other people have never played Bioware games before?  Your example doesn't make sense to me.

 

I don't yet know what the point of having extra options to begin with would be.

 

Me neither, which is why this is really a hypothetical situation.  I expect a bisexual male and female as the last two, to be honest.

 

Wow, no one is saying that at all. The discussion has been very calm and civil and then you jump in and basically accuse us of being greedy? Almost everyone here is saying that they HOPE the options are even, BUT if for some reason they can't be, it would be nice for someone who has never gotten extra options to have a turn. How is that hard to understand?

 

Exactly.

 

What i meant was that if a straight man or woman came here and said that they hope that the unannounced romance options were straight because they deserve it you would be calling them out on that, in my view a gay man/lesbian/bi saying the same thing is no different.

 

As i said inequality is inequality no matter which way you slice it,and just because you had it bad before doesn't mean you should hope others get the same treatment.

 

All that does is breed resentment.

 

What criteria would those straight men use?  Why would they think that they deserve an extra romance?  That is important in this discussion.  They can't say that it's because they haven't gotten extra romances in the past, which is the criteria that I'm using for gay and lesbian players.

[Parkimus]

Personally, I don't give a damn how much straight men have, I just want decent numbers for ourselves and everyone else.

 

As a straight man myself, I feel sad you feel that way

 

However, I also recognize that your sentiment is justified, so I hope you get what you want as far as romances go