19658 réponses à ce sujet

[daveliam]

Part of why I don't see much of an issue with Bioware games is because the first Bioware game I played while recognising the company was Origins. I had played Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR as a child but didn't really "get" the romance stuff at that point (other than some vague memories of finding the brothel in Neverwinter Nights, finding it hilarious, and then being slightly disappointed that the male guy kept telling me to go to the women, who I'd already spoken to. God knows how old I was then). So my experience is mostly with 'modern' Bioware. 

 

It's partly why I don't really count games like Baulders gate or Balders gate 2 when talking about Bioware romances. Some of Inquisitions playerbase won't even have been born when Balders Gate one was released. Heck, I just turned 20 and I was too young to play them when they came out. So using them as an argument for things now seems a bit of a stretch. Mass Effect I can understand more. 

 

And yes, the vast, vast majority of games have straight protagonists and include him demonstrating his attraction to women, but I think that's an entirely different issue. When I hear "Gay players always get less options" I don't count games with fixed straight protagonists, because those aren't really options. They are written into the story, and you have no control of the main characters actions or personality at all usually. I'd say the real answer to that issue is to create games with fixed homosexual or bisexual protagonists, with same gender attraction written into the story. 

 

History is a very important thing to remember though.  Just because you are too young to have experienced twenty years of being excluded in the gaming industry, doesn't mean that those who do remember it are overreacting when developers still fail to treat us equally.  The industry is still very homophobic (blatantly), so when a dev who actually listens to us doesn't treat us as equitably as we'd like, it's absolutely not an issue to point that out. 

[tersalius]

The distribution gonna be 5/3.

[In Exile]

The whole "broody and damaged by magic" thing. Cullen's physical type, meanwhile, is shared by every male human in the game.

 

Oh, okay. I see what you mean now. I actually don't like that personality at all (especially with how the Fenris romanced was handled), so it's just not what leaps to mind when I think of Fenris (which is basically his awesome VA + his physical type). Thanks!  

[Wulfram]

I don't see Cullen as especially broody.  Maybe he'll become so in DA:I - it does seem to be the default form of character development.

[Reynes-of-Castamere]

A brothel is a sexual encounter, not a romance.

And more often than not it's all the same, but regardless, when the subject boils down to "who gets what" it looks a lot like the former as opposed to the latter.

[Allan Schumacher]

Part of why I don't see much of an issue with Bioware games is because the first post-puberty Bioware game I played was Origins. I had played Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR as a child but didn't really "get" the romance stuff at that point (other than some vague memories of finding the brothel in Neverwinter Nights, finding it hilarious, and then being slightly disappointed that the male guy kept telling me to go to the women, who I'd already spoken to. God knows how old I was then). Since So my experience is mostly with 'modern' Bioware.

 

It's partly why I don't count games like Baulders gate or Balders gate 2. Some of Inquisitions playerbase won't even have been born when Balders Gate one was realeased. Heck, I just turned 20 and I was too young to play them when they came out. So using them as an argument for things now seems a bit of a stretch. Mass Effect I can understand more.

 

That's fine, but recognize that you're ignoring and erasing other people's experiences.  Which is, in my opinion, a lack of perspective.  Many many MANY will still be fans of us that have played all of our games, and I won't ignore them because a younger crowd may not have played the earlier games.  Especially since I'd wager that a lot of our fans are reasonably old.  I'm 33 now, and BioWare games are still very much the style of games I want to play.

 

 

I don't count games with fixed straight protagonists, because those aren't really options.

 

They ARE options.  To borrow my mathematical brain, it's just a simpler case:  You typically have 1 option for hetero, and 0 options for gay - so it still satisfies the criteria.  There's nothing stopping game developers from making more games that have more varied sexual orientations, which in and of itself is an option that so few people actually take.

 

 

Because as you say, they are fixed protagonists, which is why I do not feel that "perfectly even distribution" is what we need for equality.  We need for equality to exist in aggregate, across the entire game industry (and well, other places too).

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

Cullen if anything is on the border line of being broody 

[In Exile]

And yes, the vast, vast majority of fixed-protagonist games have straight protagonists and include him demonstrating his attraction to women, but I think that's an entirely different issue. When I hear "Gay players always get less options" I don't count games with fixed straight protagonists, because those aren't really options. They are written into the story, and you have no control of the main characters actions or personality at all usually. I'd say the real answer to that issue is to create games with fixed homosexual or bisexual protagonists, with same gender attraction written into the story. 

 

Having a substantial number of games not really recognize your existence as protagonists is a problem. It's why, for example, people liked Jack on Torchwood/Dr. Who (especially for those who were bi, though I'd argue that Jack was more pan than anything). 

[Allan Schumacher]

And more often than not it's all the same, but regardless, when the subject boils down to "who gets what" it looks a lot like the former as opposed to the latter.

 

I'd argue that the romance content is more than just some sex scene at the end (especially with a game like DA2).  I'd also wager that many would still enjoy the romances if sex wasn't something that really came up in them.

[Ianamus]

History is a very important thing to remember though.  Just because you are too young to have experienced twenty years of being excluded in the gaming industry, doesn't mean that those who do remember it are overreacting when developers still fail to treat us equally.  The industry is still very homophobic (blatantly), so when a dev who actually listens to us doesn't treat us as equitably as we'd like, it's absolutely not an issue to point that out. 

 

I can understand using it to complain about having no options or having less options. That's entirely justifiable, although more recent games like Mass Effect 1 and 2 are far more relevant and make for better arguments in my opinion. Using it to say that gay players having more options than straight players is more acceptable than the reverse is a different matter though. 

[Fizzie Panda]

I am SICK of waiting, I really don't understand the benefits of keeping this information a secret, I want to know who the remaining romances are

[Grieving Natashina]

I'd argue that the romance content is more than just some sex scene at the end (especially with a game like DA2).  I'd also wager that many would still enjoy the romances if sex wasn't something that really came up in them.

I know I would.  It's the dialogue and the way the story unfolds that really matters to me at least.  The sex scenes are...hit and miss depending upon the BW game.  

 

Also, I'm also glad to hear that some of the romance paths have deviated away from, "And your reward for love is sex."  Thanks to the DA team for that.

 

 

I am SICK of waiting, I really don't understand the benefits of keeping this information a secret, I want to know who the remaining romances are

It's to help keep us hyped up and talking about the game.  Unfortunately, this is starting to be toxic for the community.  

[In Exile]

I know I would.  It's the dialogue and the way the story unfolds that really matters to me at least.  The sex scenes are...hit and miss depending upon the BW game.  

 

Wait, some were a hit? Do you mean the Liara scene in ME1, or is there another hidden gem out there? 

[Chernaya]

I've said this before, but I would gladly trade in a 'sex scene' or even a 'fade to black' scene for more romance dialogue or other scenes, so yep. It's definitely not what's important in a romance to me. :3

[Basement Cat]

I'd argue that the romance content is more than just some sex scene at the end (especially with a game like DA2).  I'd also wager that many would still enjoy the romances if sex wasn't something that really came up in them.

Darn straight! The gift cut scenes were some of the sweetest parts of both DAO and DA2.

[Fizzie Panda]

*snip*

 

It's to help keep us hyped up and talking about the game.  Unfortunately, this is starting to be toxic for the community.  

 

For me personally, I'll stay hyped about the game until October, but not knowing who the remaining 2 are, is becoming very negative for me. To the point where I no longer want to think about the game

[The Elder King]

I don't see Cullen as especially broody.  Maybe he'll become so in DA:I - it does seem to be the default form of character development.

I think he'll more serious then broody.

[Grieving Natashina]

Wait, some were a hit? Do you mean the Liara scene in ME1, or is there another hidden gem out there? 

Yeah, I thought the Liara scene was really good in all three games (counting Shadow Broker.)  I also..didn't mind the FTB scenes in DA2.  The dialogue beforehand I thought was more than good enough.  

 

_{Please don't shoot me.}

[Ianamus]

 

They ARE options.  To borrow my mathematical brain, it's just a simpler case:  You typically have 1 option for hetero, and 0 options for gay - so it still satisfies the criteria.  There's nothing stopping game developers from making more games that have more varied sexual orientations, which in and of itself is an option that so few people actually take.

 

 

Characters like the prostitutes in Grand Theft auto maybe, but I can't see princess peach or Zelda as romance options. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Characters like the prostitutes in Grand Theft auto maybe, but I can't see princess peach or Zelda as romance options. 

He was going with stories that have a romantic undertone,  including the Mario game and Zelda.  Princess Peach and Zelda have made it clear in several games that Mario loves Peach, and Link can be in love with Zelda.  Plenty of stories with undertones like that are out there for straight men, and they are usually romance stories.

 

I would consider the prostitutes to be much different.  There's no romance there at all, it's just for sex.  Not the same.

[Allazor]

I am SICK of waiting, I really don't understand the benefits of keeping this information a secret, I want to know who the remaining romances are

 

Panda, mate do you have a sign that will represent our impatience and exasperation with the fact that we are like Jon Snow - " You know nothing , Jon Snow"

[Basement Cat]

I think he'll more serious then broody.

I don't think he'll brood too much. His life so far has been this:

 

Circle overtaken by demons, Kirkwall overtaken by demons and a lunatic knight-commander and start of the mage-templar war. His thoughts this time around might be along the lines of 'I'm in a castle with no demons and my boss is not a raving maniac. Life is sweet!'

[Fizzie Panda]

Panda, mate do you have a sign that will represent your patience and exasperation with the fact that we are like Jon Snow - " You know nothing , Jon Snow"

I'm going to explode

[Vapaa]

It's to help keep us hyped up and talking about the game.  Unfortunately, this is starting to be toxic for the community.  

 

 

I wish I had others things to talk about concerning DAI