19658 réponses à ce sujet

[javeart]

Does DA2 scenes count as sex scenes? I guess not? Anyway, that's my favourite format. I'm ok though with ME1 sex scenes, but I don't need anything like that either

[Grieving Natashina]

I wish I had others things to talk about concerning DAI

You're not alone.  As I said last night, I've only seen the forums agree on something a few times since I started posting regularly.  This is one of those times we can all agree we want these reveals done and over with.  

[daveliam]

I can understand using it to complain about having no options or having less options. That's entirely justifiable, although more recent games like Mass Effect 1 and 2 are far more relevant and make for better arguments in my opinion. Using it to say that gay players having more options than straight players is more acceptable than the reverse is a different matter though. 

 

What you seem to not be able to understand is that your utopian "everyone gets equal amounts" or "they randomly pick a group to get an extra" DOESN'T WORK.  If it did, then there wouldn't be years of under- or lack of representation for gays and lesbians.  You are fortunate to have grown up in a time where it is better.  But better does not mean equal.  There is still room to improve and by naively suggesting that they should randomly assign a group to get more, is just going along with the status quo that has, traditionally, marginalized us.  Perhaps it's because you, in this situation, get the benefits of the heterosexual options as well, so it doesn't seem as drastic to you. 

 

Look, I want everyone to get equal amounts.  But it won't always work out that way and, when it doesn't, I don't want to consistently receive less options than straight guys.  And that is exactly what will happen if developers don't actively pay attention to these concerns and make efforts to try to give every group a game where they "get an extra" option.

[Wulfram]

I don't think he'll brood too much. His life so far has been this:

 

Circle overtaken by demons, Kirkwall overtaken by demons and a lunatic knight-commander and start of the mage-templar war. His thoughts this time around might be along the lines of 'I'm in a castle with no demons and my boss is not a raving maniac. Life is sweet!'

 

Wouldn't count on the bolded...

[SnakeCode]

Does DA2 scenes count as sex scenes? I guess not? Anyway, that's my favourite format. I'm ok though with ME1 sex scenes, but I don't need anything like that either

I don't think so. You see the before and/or after sex scene/s. Rather than the deed itself.

[The Elder King]

I don't think he'll brood too much. His life so far has been this:
 
Circle overtaken by demons, Kirkwall overtaken by demons and a lunatic knight-commander and start of the mage-templar war. His thoughts this time around might be along the lines of 'I'm in a castle with no demons and my boss is not a raving maniac. Life is sweet!'

Well, he's the one who have to lead the army outside, and possibly against demons as well.
Plus...

Wouldn't count on the bolded...

What he said .

[SnakeCode]

Wouldn't count on the bolded...

Or the no demons part. Let's not forget Cole.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

I don't mind sex scenes especially since these days games are pretty much becoming movies that you control

[Nocte ad Mortem]

About the split, I like the idea of equality now over the "even out" old slights idea. I think slanting things in a different direction just causes more hurt feelings, encourages fighting between groups and spreads the bitterness all over. I also think it just perpetuates inequality and creates a need to continue it. It justifies more demands for inequality towards groups in future games. The problem to start with was that there weren't equal options. Now the other group gets inequal options. For how long? When does it become even? And then do we go back to giving them more for a while? Slanting the options would just create the same problem in reverse. It's never going to work out, even changing it up every game. People are going to be pointing out 1-2 (or more) games from now how straight men, or whoever, have gotten less and then we'll be having the same argument about whether or not it's fair to start giving them extras.

 

It was a problem that people didn't have equal options. The only solution is to give everyone equal options. Yes, people will still complain, but that's irrelevant to my view. If you don't like your choices, or you like someone else's choices more, that's just an individual issue. It's not an established pattern of unfairness. We can try to nail down the tropes later, but for right now I think numbers and amount of content spread evenly should be the goal.

[Ianamus]

What you seem to not be able to understand is that your utopian "everyone gets equal amounts" or "they randomly pick a group to get an extra" DOESN'T WORK.  If it did, then there wouldn't be years of under- or lack of representation for gays and lesbians.  You are fortunate to have grown up in a time where it is better.  But better does not mean equal.  There is still room to improve and by naively suggesting that they should randomly assign a group to get more, is just going along with the status quo that has, traditionally, marginalized us.  Perhaps it's because you, in this situation, get the benefits of the heterosexual options as well, so it doesn't seem as drastic to you. 

 

Look, I want everyone to get equal amounts.  But it won't always work out that way and, when it doesn't, I don't want to consistently receive less options than straight guys.  And that is exactly what will happen if developers don't actively pay attention to these concerns and make efforts to try to give every group a game where they "get an extra" option.

 

Well, randomly choose is the approach ignoring everything else, focusing just on LI numbers. The more grounded one is that they give the characters sexualities when they are first created and then assign the extra LI's based on those characters pre-determined sexualities, without worrying about which demographic gets them as a result. 

[javeart]

I don't think so. You see the before and/or after sex scene/s. Rather than the deed itself.

 

well, you don't actually see the deed in ME1 either  . Kaidan is in bed, Shepards gets on top of him, they roll and that's it (I kind of remember being a little more action with Liara, but I'm not sure). You can see some skin, but other than that... I know what you mean, though 

[dgcatanisiri]

I've said this before, but I would gladly trade in a 'sex scene' or even a 'fade to black' scene for more romance dialogue or other scenes, so yep. It's definitely not what's important in a romance to me. :3

 

That's my stance as well, to the point that it's one of my biggest complaints of the romances in ME3 - I would gladly trade the scene of Shepard and Kaidan rolling around on the bed for another conversation that takes place post-lock in that allows them to actually discuss their relationship. And I had to wait three games to get that scene. Yeah, it's nice seeing it, but that's really the only time that their romance is seriously acknowledged in something other than a one line comment.

 

Give me elements that are part of a relationship - a conversation, a moment where all we do is prompt our character to hold their romance's hand, just something that might seem little in terms of the act itself, but something that can speak volumes about what the relationship is offering these people, and I'm over the moon. The 'romance scene,' the scene with the characters in bed, that's more the cherry on top, and I can do without it. The rest of that is the (to mix my food metaphors) meat and potatoes of the relationship.

[Grieving Natashina]

well, you don't actually see the deed in ME1 either  . Kaidan is in bed, Shepards gets on top of him, they roll and that's it (I kind of remember being a little more action with Liara, but I'm not sure). You can see some skin, but other than that... I know what you mean, though 

Your memory is correct.  I played the games for the first time about 6 weeks ago, and Liara was the romance for the first time around.  They definitely showed more action with Liara.  The part that threw me off was the end.  Shep fully dressed, sitting off to the side, and while it's subtle, there's no doubt that Liara is still nude.  

[Xilizhra]

Your memory is correct.  I played the games for the first time about 6 weeks ago, and Liara was the romance for the first time around.  They definitely showed more action with Liara.  The part that threw me off was the end.  Shep fully dressed, sitting off to the side, and while it's subtle, there's no doubt that Liara is still nude.  

I still don't know why Shepard was fully dressed...

[daveliam]

Well, randomly choose is the approach ignoring everything else, focusing just on LI numbers. The more grounded one is that they give the characters sexualities when they are first created and then assign the extra LI's based on those characters pre-determined sexualities, without worrying about which demographic gets them as a result. 

 

But that's my point.  That's exactly what's been happening for decades in the video game industry and it gave us ZERO options.  Until Bioware starting to work against it and that's the only reason  why you even have options that you go to play as a kid.  Had Bioware not decided that they have to start putting gay and lesbian options in the games, we'd have zero options anywhere.  No one else had stepped up to do it and there's clearly a rabid fan base for it.  This is why it's so important that Bioware continues to think about us overtly, otherwise, we'd have nothing.  Bioware making sure that we continue to have options and, if possible, not always the least amount of options, is the best thing that we can hope for until the industry, as a whole, actually begins to take notice.  It's changing, but it's happening so slowly that we need an ally like Bioware to challenge other devs by being different.

[Allan Schumacher]

Characters like the prostitutes in Grand Theft auto maybe, but I can't see princess peach or Zelda as romance options. 

 

Then I think your perspective still needs to grow.  They are heterosexual love interests for the protagonist of video games.  And they are everywhere.

 

They may not be a choice that the player can make, but that doesn't mean they are exempt from contributing to "heterosexuals get the love stories, others do not" images.

[Grieving Natashina]

I still don't know why Shepard was fully dressed...

Me either.  

 

I'm glad they didn't do that with the other Liara scenes in ME2 DLC and ME3.  

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

shepard woke up first and got dressed? Most people go to sleep afterward lol

[In Exile]

Yeah, I thought the Liara scene was really good in all three games (counting Shadow Broker.)  I also..didn't mind the FTB scenes in DA2.  The dialogue beforehand I thought was more than good enough.  

 

_{Please don't shoot me.}

I'd never shoot you.  (that came out wrong, but you get what I mean). 

 

I thought the DA2 Fade to black scenes mostly worked, they just looked a bit awkward. I got where they were going, the engine just wasn't capable of handing the collusion detection very well, so it ended up looking.. well ... to stiff and rigid (oh, the puns!). 

 

Now that I remember, you're right, LOTSB was excellent. I really can't remember ME3, but the endings were just so terrible for me it's the only Bioware game ever (even including NWN of all things) that I've never replayed. ME3's ending figuratively killed the series for me. 

[daveliam]

I am really sick and tired of this myth that the video game industry is homophobic or sexist. I'm sure there are those out there claiming it's racist too. Not only is it false but to label the entire industry as such is downright insulting. Companies focus on certain markets and not seeing content suited to your own preferences simply does not equal bigotry.

I cannot comprehend the lengths some here are going to defend the double standard of "it's not okay to have more straight than gay options, but the reverse would be okay". It pure and simply a double standard and there is nothing to be respected about such a thing.

 

Do you play online games?  Do you play multiplayer games with people on consoles?  If you do, then you know that it is very, very common to hear gay slurs being thrown about as insults.  That is the very definition of homophobia.  I'm not going to engage with you beyond this.

[Grieving Natashina]

shepard woke up first and got dressed? Most people go to sleep afterward lol

Yeah, my femShep, after the scene ended, was sitting on a table watching Liara wake up and fully dressed.

[In Exile]

He was going with stories that have a romantic undertone,  including the Mario game and Zelda.  Princess Peach and Zelda have made it clear in several games that Mario loves Peach, and Link can be in love with Zelda.  Plenty of stories with undertones like that are out there for straight men, and they are usually romance stories.

 

I would consider the prostitutes to be much different.  There's no romance there at all, it's just for sex.  Not the same.

 

I want to give an honorary mention to Twilight Princess, which IMO has a subtle romantic subplot (though not between Link and Zelda) and an incredibly bittersweet ending as a result. 

[javeart]

Your memory is correct.  I played the games for the first time about 6 weeks ago, and Liara was the romance for the first time around.  They definitely showed more action with Liara.  The part that threw me off was the end.  Shep fully dressed, sitting off to the side, and while it's subtle, there's no doubt that Liara is still nude.  

 

the end I do remember. Definitely improvable 

[Fizzie Panda]

Then I think your perspective still needs to grow.  They are heterosexual love interests for the protagonist of video games.  And they are everywhere.

 

They may not be a choice that the player can make, but that doesn't mean they are exempt from contributing to "heterosexuals get the love stories, others do not" images.

So how about Bioware grows our perspective a little bit more by releasing the last 2 romance options?

[Grieving Natashina]

 

I'd never shoot you.    (that came out wrong, but you get what I mean). 

 

I thought the DA2 Fade to black scenes mostly worked, they just looked a bit awkward. I got where they were going, the engine just wasn't capable of handing the collusion detection very well, so it ended up looking.. well ... to stiff and rigid (oh, the puns!). 

 

Now that I remember, you're right, LOTSB was excellent. I really can't remember ME3, but the endings were just so terrible for me it's the only Bioware game ever (even including NWN of all things) that I've never replayed. ME3's ending figuratively killed the series for me. 

Even after the ending, I still will finish my second session of ME3.  I can understand where folks are coming from, believe me.  I saw the footage of the endings pre EC and yeah, I'd be angry too.

 

However, I guess I'm not going to let 10 minutes of a badly explained info-dump ruin my newfound love of the series.  It helps I came in late.  If I let a poorly handled info dump at the end of a game or a bad ending ruin a game for me, I wouldn't replay NWN2 and Chrono Cross.

 

 

I want to give an honorary mention to Twilight Princess, which IMO has a subtle romantic subplot (though not between Link and Zelda) and an incredibly bittersweet ending as a result. 

Good point.  I haven't played the Zelda games since the SNES era.    But I'm familiar with the series, including most of the plots and the rather interesting time line.

 

 

So how about Bioware grows our perspective a little bit more by releasing the last 2 romance options?   

Nicely played.