19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Thrillian]

Fenris had two gifts. The Book of Shartan and the Sword of Mercy. 

Yes I know, but I was only able to find one without metagaming. Probably my own fault for being too lazy to explore. (Imagine happy emoticon here) can't get them to work. lol

[Vapaa]

And of course all straight people aren't the same. I don't have any interest in such content yet I love the "evil" path when its done correctly. However the last time I checked this genre wasn't centered around sexuality and romance. At its core its about those choices, moral and otherwise, that shape the world around the PC. So I'd say that important choices with an element of morality is indeed far more important than romances.

 

Last time I checked the core feature of an RPG is to provide "roleplayability". That can be on various levels, but as far as Bioware is concerned, you had a vast choice about what your character could be; male, female, good, evil, etc...and choosing the type of person they want to bond with is as much of a RP choice as the weapon they want to wield (fun fact: more people romanced Leliana as a female warden than picked rogue as a class in DAO, LET US GET RID OF ROGUES).

[Hanako Ikezawa]

(fun fact: more people romanced Leliana as a female warden than picked rogue as a class in DAO, LET US GET RID OF ROGUES).

*breaks empty bottle*

Don't you take away my Rogues!

[Vapaa]

*breaks empty bottle*

Don't you take away my Rogues!

 

Well, in my first DAO playthrough I romanced Leliana with a female rogue, two birds, one stone and all that

[Grieving Natashina]

Last time I checked the core feature of an RPG is to provide "roleplayability". That can be on various levels, but as far as Bioware is concerned, you had a vast choice about what your character could be; male, female, good, evil, etc...and choosing the type of person they want to bond with is as much of a RP choice as the weapon they want to wield (fun fact: more people romanced Leliana as a female warden than picked rogue as a class in DAO, LET US GET RID OF ROGUES).

I just wanted to add something, because you and Fratelli nailed it on the head.

<clears throat>

 

@Reynes Good for you, so glad you have an opinion that you want to push on anyone and everyone.  Glad to see you can at least type well, so at least you are easy to understand.  

 

That's great you have all of these strong feelings, but guess what?  BioWare doesn't give a crap if you think inclusion is a waste of time.  The posters don't give a crap if you think it's a waste of time.  You're wasting your time being here. BioWare has talked time and time again about how they are making money by doing this.  

 

That so far, there is nothing to indicate that having LGBT content has negatively affected their sales.

 

So, do yourself a huge favor: Vote with your wallet.  Stop wasting key strokes/text minutes and just don't buy the game.  It's really easy to do.  I know I won't care.  Probably a lot of other people won't either.  

 

Do you realize that your $60-70 is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of people that have bought and played the games?  The millions more that will probably buy this game too?  You underestimate the size of the player base here, big time.  This isn't some small indie outfit.  

 

Give it up.  Let it go.  That much hate isn't good for you.  Really, you're going to waste your time with this?

 

There is a bunch of games out there just for you.  Where you don't have to put up with anything you don't like, that don't challenge your worldview.  Games that let you drift in the sea of the status quo.  Nothing but straight relationships as far as the eye can see.  You should probably go do that.  Otherwise, inclusion is apart of BioWare's goals, and has been for years now.  To make great games for everyone.  You have no choice but to deal with it, or find another game company where you are safe from all the stuff you refuse to learn more about.

 

Good day, sir.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I wish we could know more of their statistics. It's interesting to me. But I guess they probably think people would use them to be jerks about anything that got a low average. 

[BabyFratelli]

Last time I checked the core feature of an RPG is to provide "roleplayability". That can be on various levels, but as far as Bioware is concerned, you had a vast choice about what your character could be; male, female, good, evil, etc...and choosing the type of person they want to bond with is as much of a RP choice as the weapon they want to wield (fun fact: more people romanced Leliana as a female warden than picked rogue as a class in DAO, LET US GET RID OF ROGUES).

 

I was genuinely shocked when Patrick said that. I thought rogues were the most popular by far, because I always choose rogue. Just goes to show how ones personal perspectives can so easily skew ones world view. *coughs* 

 

I'm letting it go. I'm moving on. I swear.

 

But back to romance:

 

... I can't think of a single question to prompt discussion that we haven't all heard a hundred times before.

[Magdalena11]

One possible race gated LI + one possible non-companion, non-advisor LI = Dagna?

[leaguer of one]

yeah this is very unlikely the game comes out in less than 4 months its pretty much finished. 

That was the reason they waited before stating Iron bull would be romanceable. It's not whether they are romanceable will change but what's in the romance and how far it can go that can change. Things are still on the cutting room floor and content is still being finalized. They can't say anything till they are sure it 100% going to be in the game.

[HuldraDancer]

But back to romance:

 

... I can't think of a single question to prompt discussion that we haven't all heard a hundred times before.

 

If each confirmed LI was to be compared to a fish what kind of fish would they be? (I don't think that's been asked a 100 times yet)

[Nocte ad Mortem]

One possible race gated LI + one possible non-companion, non-advisor LI = Dagna?

They walked back the non-companion/non-advisor comment. They're not one of the 8 romances. Whatever the context is, they're not a "full" romance. 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

That was the reason they waited before stating Iron bull would be romanceable. It's not whether they are romanceable will change but what's in the romance and how far it can go that can change. Things are still on the cutting room floor and content is still being finalized. They can't say anything till they are sure it 100% going to be in the game.

I'm not sure this is the case. They didn't give any hard numbers before Iron Bull. Now they're saying 2 will be race gated. I think that likely means they've made that final. It may not be, but it would be my assumption that it's the case.

[Thrillian]

I'm not sure where you're from, but in the vast majority of the world this is faulty. Even places where they've legalized marriage equality still don't allow queer couples to adopt, nor are third genders legally recognized.
 
One of the reasons people accuse you of being 'privileged' is because you cannot seem to understand how social inequalities effect people who are not you.
 
 
There is no biological, or natural, reason for racism. It is purely cultural, the result of thousands of years of ignorance that has favoured white people. Claiming humans are fundamentally prone to treating other ethnicities unfairly is, well, wrong.
 
 
That's just the tip of the ice berg for things I disagree with about your post, those were just the major flaws that jumped out at me right away. If you're up for a civil debate, you are welcome to PM me. I imagine Allan or others might have more to say to you here anyway.

 
 

I just wanted to add something, because you and Fratelli nailed it on the head.

<clears throat> @Reynes Good for you, so glad you have an opinion that you want to push it on anyone and everyone.  Glad to see you can at least type well, so at least you are easy to understand.  
 
That's great you have all of these strong feelings, but guess what?  BioWare doesn't give a crap if you think inclusion is a waste of time.  The posters don't give a crap if you think it's a waste of time.  You're wasting your time being here. BioWare has talked time and time again about how they are making money by doing this.  
 
That so far, there is nothing to indicate that having LGBT content has negatively affected their sales.
 
So, do yourself a huge favor: Vote with your wallet.  Stop wasting key strokes/text minutes and just don't buy the game.  It's really easy to do.  I know I won't care.  Probably a lot of other people won't either.  Do you realize that your $60-70s is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of people that have bought and played the games?  The millions more that will probably buy this game too?  You underestimate the size of the player base here, big time.  This isn't some small indie outfit.  
 
Give it up.  Let it go.  That much hate isn't good for you.  Really, you're going to waste your time with this?
 
There is a bunch of games out there just for you.  Where you don't have to put up with anything you don't like, that don't challenge your worldview.  Games that let you drift in the sea of the status quo.  Nothing but straight relationships as far as the eye can see.  You should probably go do that.  Otherwise, inclusion is apart of BioWare's goals, and has been for years now.  To make great games for everyone.  You have no choice but to deal with it, or find another game company where you are safe from all the stuff you refuse to learn more about.
 
Good day, sir.

I adore you both beyond measure!

Also I say this as a straight, white woman (didn't have the joy of being a man on top) and I am able to recognise that I have been privileged throughout my life and am able to recognize that others have not and that it isn't fair. I honestly don't understand how people don't see it and then also get defensive about it.

The following aimed at people who don't get it:

Yes you have had opportunities throughout you entire life that others have not based entirely on your skin tone, sexuality and gender! And yes, people are bloody sick of it!

[Allan Schumacher]

Yes I do think that modern western society does generally treat gay/lesbians equally under the law. And it is the law which matters, not individual acts or the opinions of some in society. Every day innocent people are killed for countless different "reasons", yet one death isn't more tragic than another based on the reason. A gay kid being picked on is no worse a problem than a straight kid being picked on. What point are you trying to make here? That the straight should be thankful they're not gay? That the world is unfair? All that can be done is that equal treatment under the law.

 

You've moved the goalposts and dodged the question.  I'm making the point that LGBT people are picked on BECAUSE they are LGBT.  The law is one aspect of how people behave, and it has little to do with experiencing content in video games.

 

To leverage your example: do you think that a gay kid is more likely to be picked on for being gay than a straight kid is for being straight?

 

Before I continue, I need to see an answer for this question.

 

 

EDIT:

I can't help but see arrogance when many of your posts have themes along the lines of "I don't think this individual recognizes their own privilege" or "maybe if they weren't so privileged they'd have a different view." Maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't, maybe the sun will explode tomorrow, who can say? But the question of their supposed privilege is irrelevant and detrimental to honest discussion.

 

You're not interested in an honest discussion in retrospect.  You've already shown that you're willing to shift the goalposts and apply arbitrary definitions to frame questions in evasive ways.  So moving on.

[Maria Caliban]

I was genuinely shocked when Patrick said that. I thought rogues were the most popular by far, because I always choose rogue. Just goes to show how ones personal perspectives can so easily skew ones world view. *coughs* 

Confirmation bias is one of the big problems on the BSN. We are statistically bizarre.

Human was the most popular race in Origins(80%), followed by elves(15%), and dwarves (5%). Elven mage was, IIRC, 10%. Warriors are the most popular class. Leliana was the most popular romance by far.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

I didn't know rogues were that unpopular, maybe I should try playing as one more, I always romance rogues lol (Leliana and Isabela and now Sera) but never played one myself. 

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

That was the reason they waited before stating Iron bull would be romanceable. It's not whether they are romanceable will change but what's in the romance and how far it can go that can change. Things are still on the cutting room floor and content is still being finalized. They can't say anything till they are sure it 100% going to be in the game.

who ever said they done this at the last minute? for all we know the animation issue was fixed months ago and they didn't reveal it till it was time to announce IB as a romance option. The game is pretty much finished all they are doing now is probably de-bugging it which takes a while in itself. 

[GameBoyish]

One possible race gated LI + one possible non-companion, non-advisor LI = Dagna?

If it's Dagna and Varric, I would literally cry of joy.

[Thrillian]

I was genuinely shocked when Patrick said that. I thought rogues were the most popular by far, because I always choose rogue. Just goes to show how ones personal perspectives can so easily skew ones world view. *coughs* 
 
I'm letting it go. I'm moving on. I swear.
 
But back to romance:
 
... I can't think of a single question to prompt discussion that we haven't all heard a hundred times before.

I'm surprised also, rogue is always my first playthrough (and usually second, third, etc). I've only recently branched out into mages on my tenth playthroughs of both DA:O and DA2. Wow, that makes me sound boring! I've really enjoyed the mage playthroughs, more so in DA2, the animations in DA:O were a bit bland for me. I have yet to get into the warrior types however.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I did an elven rogue character in Origins and I plan to play one again. The elven rogue is going to be my import character, too. lol

[Nocte ad Mortem]

who ever said they done this at the last minute? for all we know the animation issue was fixed months ago and they didn't reveal it till it was time to announce IB as a romance option. The game is pretty much finished all they are doing now is probably de-bugging it which takes a while in itself. 

They actually said they still didn't know when Iron Bull's writer interview went up.  

[carlo angelo]

Yes I do think that modern western society does generally treat gay/lesbians equally under the law. And it is the law which matters, not individual acts or the opinions of some in society. Every day innocent people are killed for countless different "reasons", yet one death isn't more tragic than another based on the reason. A gay kid being picked on is no worse a problem than a straight kid being picked on. What point are you trying to make here? That the straight should be thankful they're not gay? That the world is unfair? All that can be done is that equal treatment under the law.

Many workplaces in America can still fire you for being gay. People are still lobbying for same sex marriage. If you really want to insult someone, the most sensitive issue to hit is that of their sexuality- or, not comforming to heteronormativity. And in Australia, our bloody Prime Minister thinks the LGBTQ community are essentially second class citizens. A kid being picked for being gay is different because he or she is being bullied for who they essentially are and how they identify and it gets to a very personal core. A straight kid could be picked on for many other reasons, but they'll never be picked on because of their heterosexuality. I... still don't think we're as equal under the law as you think. And as for the law, it really depends, because sometimes the law fails people and it's not as black and white as you want it to be. People argue that Christian belief should be law, but not everyone follows that belief. So law being the only bench mark, really?

 

 

And of course all straight people aren't the same. I don't have any interest in such content yet I love the "evil" path when its done correctly. However the last time I checked this genre wasn't centered around sexuality and romance. At its core its about those choices, moral and otherwise, that shape the world around the PC. So I'd say that important choices with an element of morality is indeed far more important than romances.

That's easy for you to say and of course Dragon Age, and a lot of the Bioware games tie romance into their core story. But it's also their ability to write these kinds of relationships- different kinds of relationships that aren't limited by constraints of heteronormativity, that sets them apart from other gaming companies. And it's because of these risks they've taken in the past that put them at the forefront, and they've been reaping the benefits since. And funnily enough, even though a lot of people I know who identify as LGBTQ make a beeline for Bioware games for inclusiveness among many other reasons, heterosexual people still enjoy them all the same and it's been explained in detail all right here.

 

 

Society and human nature operates in a manner which means such uneven treatment between races exists. You could well face similar uneven treatment in another country where you are the minority and viewed with suspicion. With time the views of any minority in question may not change depending on if they are allowed to assimilate into the greater community and other factors. All that be done is to encourage behavior that grants such "outsiders" an opportunity and ensure equal treatment under the law. Yet none of this really ties into the question of the number of love interests in a video game.

But we're talking about our western society and video games. While this video game is a fun romp in the grand scheme of things, you're coming under fire because what you're saying is that in video games, being a recipient of a legacy of where your demographic will always be taken into account is null and void when it comes to rectifying who gets represented more. And what you're saying in the above quote is a whole other kettle of fish.

 

EDIT; Damnit!! I was too late!

[Vapaa]

I was genuinely shocked when Patrick said that. I thought rogues were the most popular by far, because I always choose rogue. Just goes to show how ones personal perspectives can so easily skew ones world view. *coughs* 

 

I think rogues got stuck between the often played soldier and the more glomorous mage. Also, mages got Arcane warrior which combined both

 

If each confirmed LI was to be compared to a fish what kind of fish would they be? (I don't think that's been asked a 100 times yet)

 

Ohh and after that we can do cats, dogs, insects, songs, cars, etc....

 

I think if Vivienne is a LI, she'll be a Fugu, because it must be cooked with extreme care in order not to kill the one eating it

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I would have thought Lionfish for Vivienne, but I guess that wouldn't make a good LI. 

[HuldraDancer]

Ohh and after that we can do cats, dogs, insects, songs, cars, etc....

 

I think if Vivienne is a LI, she'll be a Fugu, because it must be cooked with extreme care in order not to kill the one eating it

 

That works for me I'll even go down to what kind of tree they'd be like

Though I think this fits Vivienne better beautiful and vicious

 

Spoiler