19658 réponses à ce sujet

[wright1978]

Personally I loved the ambiguous approach to some of characters in da2. Vastly preferred that to the set approach.

[Allan Schumacher]

I get the frustration that comes from making Merrill character bisexual but there is a problem with having all character ambiguous and that is bi erasure. There is also a problem making all of them bisexual.

For better of for worse David Gaider was strongly criticized of using playersexual and ambiguous sexuality on various places, a lot of people wanted the devs to use set definitions. The problem is that not everyone uses set definitions. As a demisexual I was disappointing with the reveal, I really though that Merrill was on that spectrum. That is why I still think forcing them to set all of them was bisexual is as bad as put them as ambiguous, either way there is erasure. 

 

Is demisexual on the same lines as heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual?  On AVEN it sounds like a demi person can still identify as straight/gay/bi and so forth.  (Although maybe not necessarily?)

[Who Knows]

I don't think their original intention was to make Merrill unsure of her orientation, or that announcing she was bisexual was an attempt for demisexual (or otherwise non-standard sexuality) erasure. I would not be surprised if the developers were unaware that demisexuality exists.

 

Granted, I would like to see nonstandard romantic/sexual orientations and like for love interests.

[CrimsonN7]

So if Varric is confirmed as a straight LI who will only romance dwarfs, would you be interested in playing a dwarf inquisitor? Personally I have no interest in Varric or like playing as dwarfs but I'm curious, so very curious!

[LiaraShepard]

I'd like to romance a female dwarf. Dagna is one of my favorites, and she's sooo cute. I didn't like Merrill because she was too naive and clueless to my taste. I just want a cute, intelligent, smart girl who's funny enough to fall in love with her. And Dagna seems to fit with this description.

[Who Knows]

So if Varric is confirmed as a straight LI who will only romance dwarfs, would you be interested in playing a dwarf inquisitor? Personally I have no interest in Varric or like playing as dwarfs but I'm curious, so very curious!

I would be annoyed if I had to replay and start a new character of a very specific race/gender combination just to romance one character.

 

So at the very least, I would like to know the remaining romances and who is racegated before DA:I launches.

[Sylvianus]

I still don't like characters who ambiguous, because I don't really like ambiguities. I don't like that a straight person can say"Well Merrill is straight on my playthrough because bisexuals are gross. " And again, it feels like bisexual erasure.
 

I still remember those debates around Merril 's sexuality. 

 

So what is the sexuality of Merril, are they all BI ? * random curious guy asking *

- Merril is straight.

- Not she isn't, in my playthrough, she is gay.

- She can't be gay because Merril never said anything about women, while she found qunari easy on eyes.

-  Oh yeah ? Merril said some things to my Hawk, I'm pretty sure she aknowledged my gender. 

- Then we could say Merril is bisexual if she is logically attracted to both gender;

- Yeah no, I have no clue that she is attracted to women in my playthrough.

- No I think she is pansexual.

- What means pansexual ? 

- actually according to the devs, they prefer her sexuality to remain ambiguous.

- What does that mean ?

- I have no idea. But I think we could say she 's playersexual, it's up to us to choose what she is. 

[javeart]

Personally I loved the ambiguous approach to some of characters in da2. Vastly preferred that to the set approach.

 

I'm there with you, though I'm not fan of the ambiguos approach per se, I'm ok with all-bi. But I think there's no way we're coming back to that, so I'm trying to come to terms with what we have... And, well, it's true that I'm probably going to have access to 6 LIs with a female PC, which is much more than what I got in DA2... But, on the other hand, I'd rather had 4 LIs and all the extra time devoted to them, to give them tons of content.... Also, I'm going to try to play a male PC, but if it doesn't work I'm missing both Cassandra and Dorian, and that hurts 

[Mihura]

Is demisexual on the same lines as heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual?  On AVEN it sounds like a demi person can still identify as straight/gay/bi and so forth.  (Although maybe not necessarily?)

 

Hum, let us say that I can only speak for me. For some time I identify myself as homosexual but it felt wrong because my attraction was never sexual in nature and more queer romantic. It was a deep connection with someone that lead me to be sexual attracted to that person. I can appreciate beauty but I never jump for "I want to tap that", in a way I am more on the asexual spectrum and not on the sexual one. So no I would say that my demisexuality is more close to asexuality than homosexuality, if that makes sense. I would say homoromantic is more on that line of though. 

[pallascedar]

I think I get what you are saying. Like to use Merrill for an example if she actually expressed that she has never been attracted to anyone before and doesn't know what she is but knows she is attracted to Hawke, thus being unambiguous about being sexually ambiguous, it would have been better?

Alright, I will.

Totally.

[Cathey]

So if Varric is confirmed as a straight LI who will only romance dwarfs, would you be interested in playing a dwarf inquisitor? Personally I have no interest in Varric or like playing as dwarfs but I'm curious, so very curious!

No. I would probably do it if there was an achievement for it but not just as a regular playthrough because it wouldn't be fun for me. I love Varric but I would much rather have him be a friend or maybe even have a Bianca story in the game.

 

A straight Varric would be awkward x 2 for me. 1) Playing a dwarf and 2) being straight XD

 

The only character in DAI I would even consider going straight for is Solas 

[Kisari]

Is demisexual on the same lines as heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual?  On AVEN it sounds like a demi person can still identify as straight/gay/bi and so forth.  (Although maybe not necessarily?)

Here are some more links with more details in the AVEN forums:
link to demi and gray-a info
defining sexual attraction
specifying orientation
romantic/aromantic lexicon

So basically, yes they could identify as hetero/bi/pan/a/homoromantic while also being demisexual.
edit: Although they can just as easily not specify and for example, refer to onself as "asexual lesbian" "gray-a straight" etc etc

At that point it just seems to be a personal preference whether or not to specify, although I have seen it being debated before.

[Allan Schumacher]

Hum, let us say that I can only speak for me. For some time I identify myself as homosexual but it felt wrong because my attraction was never sexual in nature and more queer romantic. It was a deep connection with someone that lead me to be sexual attracted to that person. I can appreciate beauty but I never jump for "I want to tap that", in a way I am more on the asexual spectrum and not on the sexual one. So no I would say that my demisexuality is more close to asexuality than homosexuality, if that makes sense. I would say homoromantic is more on that line of though. 

 

I more mean "does demi replace or compliment the other terms?"

 

For instance, saying that I am a heterosexual bisexual seems inconsistent.  But saying that I am a demisexual bisexual seems fine, since from what I understand demisexuality is more that sexual (or for demiromantics, romantic) attraction is something that comes after a strong emotional connection occurs with someone.  So if someone is demi-bi, they need a strong emotional connection to feel the attraction, but it can be applied to either gender.  If someone is demi-gay, they need a strong emotional connection, but it only happens towards people of similar gender.

 

 

Here are some more links with more details in the AVEN forums:
link to demi and gray-a info
defining sexual attraction
specifying orientation
romantic/aromantic lexicon

So basically, yes they could identify as hetero/bi/pan/a/homoromantic while also being demisexual.

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking and yeah, those links are ones that I had read.  So I'm curious if someone like Merrill (or others) may fit into this?

[Mihura]

 

On the majority human female elven companion, I've mentioned this in another thread, but here it is again.

 

Of DAO's 10 potential companions with DLC, 4 were female. 1 golem and 3 humans. Of them, the 2 youngest humans were romance-able. (Though I can't blame this last one). And Male Human Nobles had the extra option of marrying the human queen Anora. This, compared to 4 non-human male companions (a dog, a dwarf, an elf, and a Qunari) and 4 human companions. Of them, one human and one elf were romanceable.

 

DAA brought us 2 female companions, neither surprisingly human. 1 dwarf, one elf. Neither romanceable (nor anyone in that game.) Contrast 1 dwarf, 1 Fade Spirit (Justice) in human corpse, and 2 humans.

 

Of DA2's 10 potential companions with DLC, five are female. 2 elves, 3 humans. Of them, one human and one elf is romance-able. Of 5 male companions, we have 1 dwarf, 1 elf, and 3 humans. Of them, 2 human and 1 elf romance-able. I guess DA2 is more even than most.

 

Of DAI's 9 potential companions that we know of, 3 are female. 1 elven and 3 human. Of them, we know of a romance-able human and one elf. This, compared to 4 potential male non-human (a dwarf, elf, Qunari, and... spirit?) and 2 human companions. However, when you factor in advisers, we also have two female humans: Josephine and Leliana. For prominent NPC's, we have Empress Celene and Morrigan. Guess what? Both human! I know it's important to the story and their characters to all be human, but... it seems to be that way with most female companions and prominent female characters in these games, doesn't it?

 

In fact, looking at the Inquisitor with companions and advisers around the table, I spot 1 non-human woman: Sera. In contrast, I see 4 non-human males in the room.

 

 

And again, of all the female companions across all the games, we've had two non-elven and non-human companions: Sigrun and Shale. None of whom were romance-able. This, contrasted with the much higher number of non-elven or human male companions. DAO and DA2's Dog, 2 Dwarf (Oghren and Varric), 2 Qunari (Sten and Iron Bull), 2 Fade Spirits (Justice and Cole). While Iron Bull will be the first non-elven/human male romance option, that's still one more than women.

 

Would it really ruin BioWare, or kill suspension of disbelief, to write more female characters that don't fall into the human/elf binary? And, while they're at it, consider how not just human and elven women are desirable as romance options, while the characters are being written?

 

That's how I see it.

 

 

I am there with you, they could had one more female companion that being dwarven or qunari. Female characters most of the time get a lot less diverse physical bodies and this time even less. The problem with having only three female companion is, all of them are LIs and they are probably human or elven. I still think this was a poor decision on their part but at least they have distinctive facials features.
 

 

 

[Allan Schumacher]

I'll probably also add that until probably 6 months ago, the entire concept of demisexuality was something I was completely oblivious to.

[Ianamus]

As a demisexual I was disappointing with the reveal, I really though that Merrill was on that spectrum. That is why I still think forcing them to set all of them was bisexual is as bad as put them as ambiguous, either way there is erasure. 

 

This was the entire problem with Merrill though. Because her sexuality was left ambiguous people could project whatever sexuality they wanted onto her, be it straight, bisexual, demisexual, "sexually ambiguous", or whatever they wanted. 

 

It's the entire reason why having a characters sexuality be ambiguous is an issue. Merrill could represent anything anyone wanted her too, and therefore she represented absolutely nothing. 

[Saberchic]

So if Varric is confirmed as a straight LI who will only romance dwarfs, would you be interested in playing a dwarf inquisitor? Personally I have no interest in Varric or like playing as dwarfs but I'm curious, so very curious!

Yes, I would. But then again, I don't have a problem with playing as a dwarf either.

[wright1978]

This was the entire problem with Merrill though. Because her sexuality was left ambiguous people could project whatever sexuality they wanted onto her, be it straight, bisexual, demisexual, "sexually ambiguous", or whatever they wanted. 
 
It's the entire reason why having a characters sexuality be ambiguous is an issue. Merrill could represent anything anyone wanted her too, and therefore she represented absolutely nothing.

Personally I don't view that as a problem anymore than I view a non fixed protagonist to be a problem.

[JadePrince]

This was the entire problem with Merrill though. Because her sexuality was left ambiguous people could project whatever sexuality they wanted onto her, be it straight, bisexual, demisexual, "sexually ambiguous", or whatever they wanted. 

 

It's the entire reason why having a characters sexuality be ambiguous is an issue. Merrill could represent anything anyone wanted her too, and therefore she represented absolutely nothing. 

 

I'd say, the nice thing about her being ID'd as bisexual is that it doesn't prevent anyone from imagining that she might also be demisexual or somewhere on the grey-a spectrum, but it DOES prevent homophobic jerks from saying "No, you're wrong, she's straight, totally straight."

[Feybrad]

And again, this Thread teached me about some Sort of Sexuality that I didn't know existed.

 

I'm pretty sure that in this Thread alone, more sorts of Sexuality have been mentioned than LIs exist in DAI.

 

That made me wonder - do People expect BioWare to present everyone of them Representation? or is it more of wishful thinking that their Sexuality is one of the ones that get Representation?

 

I don't really have a Clue about that, because I'm boring enough not to care (also, because as that stereotypical straight guy, I can't think of any Instance, where there wasn#t something for me. Maybe I'm too spoiled.)

[Mihura]

I more mean "does demi replace or compliment the other terms?"

 

For instance, saying that I am a heterosexual bisexual seems inconsistent.  But saying that I am a demisexual bisexual seems fine, since from what I understand demisexuality is more that sexual (or for demiromantics, romantic) attraction is something that comes after a strong emotional connection occurs with someone.  So if someone is demi-bi, they need a strong emotional connection to feel the attraction, but it can be applied to either gender.  If someone is demi-gay, they need a strong emotional connection, but it only happens towards people of similar gender.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah that's what I was thinking and yeah, those links are ones that I had read.  So I'm curious if someone like Merrill (or others) may fit into this?

 

Demisexuality is treated as a "full" sexuality, so yes it can replace. The same goes for asexuals. Some times compliments, it depends on the person and how they feel about sexual and asexual attractions. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

So if Varric is confirmed as a straight LI who will only romance dwarfs, would you be interested in playing a dwarf inquisitor? Personally I have no interest in Varric or like playing as dwarfs but I'm curious, so very curious!

 

I'm going to play a female dwarf anyway - that's been my plan from the moment they announced race selection was returning for DAI. (I wavered briefly when I heard there were also qunari, but cool as they are, they cannot rival my love for the dwarves of Thedas.) Female dwarves are clearly the best protagonists.

 

I'd like her to romance Varric, but if that's not an option she can always #ridethebull.

[ShadowLordXII]

 

On the majority human female elven companion, I've mentioned this in another thread, but here it is again.

 

Of DAO's 10 potential companions with DLC, 4 were female. 1 golem and 3 humans. Of them, the 2 youngest humans were romance-able. (Though I can't blame this last one). And Male Human Nobles had the extra option of marrying the human queen Anora. This, compared to 4 non-human male companions (a dog, a dwarf, an elf, and a Qunari) and 4 human companions. Of them, one human and one elf were romanceable.

 

DAA brought us 2 female companions, neither surprisingly human. 1 dwarf, one elf. Neither romanceable (nor anyone in that game.) Contrast 1 dwarf, 1 Fade Spirit (Justice) in human corpse, and 2 humans.

 

Of DA2's 10 potential companions with DLC, 5 are female. 2 elves, 3 humans. Of them, one human and one elf is romance-able. Of 5 male companions, we have 1 dwarf, 1 elf, and 3 humans. Of them, 2 human and 1 elf romance-able. I guess DA2 is more even than most.

 

Of DAI's 9 potential companions that we know of, 3 are female. 1 elven and 2 human. Of them, we know of a romance-able human and one elf. This, compared to 4 potential male non-human (a dwarf, elf, Qunari, and... spirit?) and 2 human companions. However, when you factor in advisers, we also have two female humans: Josephine and Leliana. For prominent NPC's, we have Empress Celene and Morrigan. Guess what? Both human! I know it's important to the story and their characters to all be human, but... it seems to be that way with most female companions and prominent female characters in these games, doesn't it?

 

In fact, looking at the Inquisitor with companions and advisers around the table, I spot 1 non-human woman: Sera. In contrast, I see 4 non-human males in the room.

 

 

And again, of all the female companions across all the games, we've had two non-elven and non-human companions: Sigrun and Shale. None of whom were romance-able. This, contrasted with the much higher number of non-elven or human male companions. DAO and DA2's Dog, 2 Dwarf (Oghren and Varric), 2 Qunari (Sten and Iron Bull), 2 Fade Spirits (Justice and Cole). While Iron Bull will be the first non-elven/human male romance option, that's still one more than women.

 

Would it really ruin BioWare, or kill suspension of disbelief, to write more female characters that don't fall into the human/elf binary? And, while they're at it, consider how not just human and elven women are desirable as romance options, while the characters are being written?

 

That's how I see it.

 

 

Interesting observation. I guess BW didn't think that anyone would want to romance a dwarven or qunari female? Would be interesting to see something different in the future though.

[Mihura]

I'd say, the nice thing about her being ID'd as bisexual is that it doesn't prevent anyone from imagining that she might also be demisexual or somewhere on the grey-a spectrum, but it DOES prevent homophobic jerks from saying "No, you're wrong, she's straight, totally straight."

 

Not really if she is bisexual, she is bisexual. That logic is the same as saying she is straight but likes women at times. Or she is a lesbian but likes men at times. That is why it erasure to put everyone ambiguous and also everyone bisexual.