19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Tamyn]

Unrelated question; is your avatar Andy Whitfield of Spartacus fame?

 

His avatar makes me sad.

[Grieving Natashina]

@Sasha <hug>

 

To be honest, there was a lot of general frustration and anger in the air last weekend before we all pretty much said, "Break time!" and had a lot of fun with 3 hours of fish puns.  The wait for the last reveals have a lot of folks on edge, for sure.

[Phate Phoenix]

So pray tell, how would they write it so that we know they are my kind of sexuality.

 

If they write them as being available to one gender, they will be seen as just heterosexual or homosexual. 

If they write them as being available to both genders, they will be seen as just bisexual. 

In either case, not representing me. 

 

So where should I be seeing the positives of the set sexuality system? 

 

Probably there would be some awkward flirting, most from the Player Character--maybe entirely from the player character. This kind of ambiguous sexuality / demisexuality makes me think it would take longer to develop and be more heavily based on their approval rating of the PC. This would be a difficult LI to get with, I think. Eventually, the PC would have to confront or ask the SA / demisexual.

 

PC: Look, I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm into you. Do you... feel the same way?

LI: I... I don't know!

PC: You... don't know.

LI: It isn't that easy! I've never... I've never felt like this. For anyone. So I don't know.

PC: Okay, it's okay. I'm not trying to... push you into anything. I promise.

LI: I know, I know, I just... I need time.

PC: Well, if you figure it out, let me know? I'll be waiting.

 

And then once either the approval rating gets high enough, the romance flag gets flicked and it's all ahead full. The character could be available to both genders and still have an ambiguous sexuality / be demisexual in their own mind, which is the important part.

[Allan Schumacher]

I haven't seen any evidence that Bioware backed away from the "ambiguous" line, because as I recall in those threads Bioware simply said that they players were free to read in what they liked and they had no objection in principle to the idea that different gendered Protagonists lived in parallel words. But I do not recall, for example, DG ever saying that characters had no set sexuality, or that characters were "playersexual". 

 

I remember David making reference to other people saying it on his tumblr once.  People seemed to think he was referring to it that way (it was my first exposure to the idea of bisexual erasure).  Maybe it's a valid critique that we should have been clearer about it much earlier, but part of that is going to require me to learn context and to grow past a point where I'm not longer saying to myself "why are people so interested in this concept of playersexual vs bisexual."

 

It's also when I learned that I need to be more careful when I chime in about stuff.  My references to playersexuality were mostly grounded in "I don't really care if that's what someone wants to see the characters as" coupled with some jadedness towards the critics that hated that "everyone" was bisexual.  But by even entering the discussion, in the eyes of some I grant legitimacy to the contents of the discussion.

[Ianamus]

That wasn't me. The meanest thing I ever said about this whole thing was David was a jerk for what he said in the interview, but later stated I don't mean to be mean to him. 

 

I probably just read the jerk post in a much harsher tone than was intended.

[javeart]

User

You stated in the panel that you can't have two romances but can you be in a romance and still flirt with the non companion?

 

Patrick Weekes ‏@PatrickWeekes

Once you have started a romance, most flirts with everyone else get locked off. A few friendly ones might stick around, though.

 

happy to have some "safe" flirts, though I guess they're going to be just a few

 

edit: I meant, very few

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I did have a question for you, if you don't mind me asking.  If you wanted to see demisexuality represented correctly in a BW game (and romance,) how would you go about communicating this to the player character?  

 

I don't mean this with any sarcasm or snark, but I was wondering how you (or anyone that isn't in the most known aspects of the LGBT spectrum,) would go about tastefully presenting the companion's sexuality while keeping representation clear?  I've been curious about this for awhile now.  

I suppose it'd be more, does it seem like it's appropriate for you?  There's likely going to be people that will assume you're heterosexual/bisexual/homosexual when viewed externally in real life too.  People already called Merrill all sorts of other things before David referred to her as a bisexual.  So why does it matter what other people would think with a future character?

Feel these are asking the same thing, so I'll put them together. 

 

Have no references to them being attracted to either gender but get attracted to the PC I guess would do well. Honestly the best way I can see them doing it is taking the DA2 way but expanding on that by putting no doubt that the protagonist is the first person the character has had attraction towards.

 

But then again some would see this as bisexual erasure or stuff like that because "you can mold this person's sexuality to what you want it" or something. 

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I probably just read the jerk post in a much harsher tone than was intended.

Yeah, you may have read it as more of an anger tone than a sorrow tone. 

[Grieving Natashina]

Probably there would be some awkward flirting, most from the Player Character--maybe entirely from the player character. This kind of ambiguous sexuality / demisexuality makes me think it would take longer to develop and be more heavily based on their approval rating of the PC. This would be a difficult LI to get with, I think. Eventually, the PC would have to confront or ask the SA / demisexual.

 

PC: Look, I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm into you. Do you... feel the same way?

LI: I... I don't know!

PC: You... don't know.

LI: It isn't that easy! I've never... I've never felt like this. For anyone. So I don't know.

PC: Okay, it's okay. I'm not trying to... push you into anything. I promise.

LI: I know, I know, I just... I need time.

PC: Well, if you figure it out, let me know? I'll be waiting.

 

And then once either the approval rating gets high enough, the romance flag gets flicked and it's all ahead full. The character could be available to both genders and still have an ambiguous sexuality / be demisexual in their own mind, which is the important part.

Okay, that certainly gives me some idea of how that might happen.  Thanks.  

 

I only recently learned what pansexual was myself.   When a friend of mine cleared it up for me about six months ago,  I was going, "Wait, there's a difference between bi and pan?  Huh, I never knew."

[JadePrince]

Probably there would be some awkward flirting, most from the Player Character--maybe entirely from the player character. This kind of ambiguous sexuality / demisexuality makes me think it would take longer to develop and be more heavily based on their approval rating of the PC. This would be a difficult LI to get with, I think. Eventually, the PC would have to confront or ask the SA / demisexual.

 

PC: Look, I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm into you. Do you... feel the same way?

LI: I... I don't know!

PC: You... don't know.

LI: It isn't that easy! I've never... I've never felt like this. For anyone. So I don't know.

PC: Okay, it's okay. I'm not trying to... push you into anything. I promise.

LI: I know, I know, I just... I need time.

PC: Well, if you figure it out, let me know? I'll be waiting.

 

And then once either the approval rating gets high enough, the romance flag gets flicked and it's all ahead full. The character could be available to both genders and still have an ambiguous sexuality / be demisexual in their own mind, which is the important part.

 

This sounds like an awesome example of dialogue! I'd love to see a character like that! Plus it lets the player feel extra special because they really get to be that person's "The One". 

 

I'd add: 

PC: Is it because I'm a woman/man?

LI: No, no! I mean, it's not that, I swear. I don't... I don't think that matters to me. It's just...

PC: It's okay, you don't have to explain. Just... tell me if I'm making you uncomfortable or if you want me to leave you alone?

LI: *blushing a little* No, it's okay... you don't have to stop, just... give me some time to figure things out?

 

I feel like it's important to get some dialogue in there that confirms that they aren't just confused heterosexuals. 

 

Again, what matters most to me is that homophobic straight players can't sh*t on me for thinking the LI is non-straight, you know? I get enough of that in the rest of the media I consume. :/

[Allan Schumacher]

Have no references to them being attracted to either gender but get attracted to the PC I guess would do well. Honestly the best way I can see them doing it is taking the DA2 way but expanding on that by putting no doubt that the protagonist is the first person the character has had attraction towards.

 

Okay.  You mention attraction to either gender.  What do you mean by that?  I don't think you mean that the character can't be attracted to the PC (whom will be either male or female most likely), but that the reason for the attraction is not in any way because of the PC's gender?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, I thought of special dialogue after I posted that so I was going to hide the post but people already quoted it. 

 

Good dialogue btw Phate and Jade. 

[Magdalena11]

Okay.  You mention attraction to either gender.  What do you mean by that?  I don't think you mean that the character can't be attracted to the PC (whom will be either male or female most likely), but that the reason for the attraction is not in any way because of the PC's gender?

point

[Deviija]

 

 

happy to have some "safe" flirts, though I guess they're going to be just a few

 

edit: I meant, very few

 

 

That's interesting.  Being a charming rogue type, for example, and still allowing you to be a bit flirty and dashing even in a romance.  Could be neat.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Okay.  You mention attraction to either gender.  What do you mean by that?  I don't think you mean that the character can't be attracted to the PC (whom will be either male or female most likely), but that the reason for the attraction is not in any way because of the PC's gender?

That, but also like in banter and stuff they shouldn't say for example about some character that "Oh, they are hot." in a way that suggests attraction to them. And if they do, they immediately explain themselves. Using Cole and Iron Bull as an example, Cole being the LI in question.

 

Cole: "Oh, she's pretty." 

Iron Bull: "Good lad. You're finally seeing the light. Now let's go get you two well acquainted."

Cole: "Why? I suppose I could tell her she has a pretty dress that looks nice on her in person."

Iron Bull: "Wait, so you didn't mean...?"

Cole: "Mean what?"

Iron Bull: "Nevermind."

[Asdrubael Vect]

I'm quite certain there are people that would like to romance a dwarven or a qunari female (although I'd like to think there are more requirements that people would like than *just* that).  Though I think it'd require the concept of creating a character specifically for the purpose of being romanced (i.e. "People want to romance a Dwarf, so lets make a romanceable Dwarf") which I'm pretty sure isn't how writers do things.  Might be good to make an ask of David on his tumblr page?

i think you know that most people who play as non-shems and mages are obviously not played as them only because of their appearance

 

....and when players said that they "would like to romance and have as a companion and Li some female dwarf, elven, kossith" they mean that they would like to have a option to romace someone else than some Orlais or Antivan bard, templar/seeker, noble/merchant....especially when they played as non-shems and mages when you do not romance someone not only because you do not like someone but because it maybe would be akward and like kinda betrayal of your hero(its like a mage who help Templars to enslave mages)..if you play as kossith or elf you can expect to have a option to romance with  kossith and elf

 

and race its only a half of what people wanted..

 

and if we ask...why they mostly said "only race" and class of the person of what they wanted? maybe, because that's indicate not only  his/her biology but the archetypes of the person what people wanted to see..that s indicate his/her possible-anticipated background, morals, traits

 

when someone would say about that "they want to have mage elf female" as a companion. who that can be anyway?...as a mage she would be from Cirlce, apostage from Cirlce, dalish or magister and others what we know...

 

as a elf she would be dalish or city elf/citizen of thedas kingdoms..

 

and all those things as "mage/non-mage" "dalish/city elf" "ferelden/rivain" would say many things about the person what people would wanted to see...she would be far different depends of her background  and when people ask for "mage elf female" they obviously does not especting her to be a Orlais noble of dwarven paragon or someon else of what she is can not

 

.the people are not wrote the full bio of the character what they wanted to see, because there is no need for that and they does not believe that devs can even possibly give them exactly what they wrote to them

 

people give some hints  to devs of what they would like to have, and devs can or do not do the new characters or make a companion and even a romance option those what was already in the game and especially those what people really liked and wanted..like with Tali and Garus what many people loved, and like with Anders, Cullen and Bull what was made for anyone

 

i and many really like Velanna, Sigrun, Ariane...and Dagna who would be in a game and unfortunately she and many others is not a romance option or companion/advisor for Inuisitor as a  majotity of the 2 kingdoms citizens))))

[Grieving Natashina]

Okay.  You mention attraction to either gender.  What do you mean by that?  I don't think you mean that the character can't be attracted to the PC (whom will be either male or female most likely), but that the reason for the attraction is not in any way because of the PC's gender?

I thought that Phate summed that up rather well.     It made sense to me at least.

 

@Asdrubael  They do take player feedback into consideration.  That's probably a very small part of the reason why we have a Qunari romance for the game.  However, they aren't going to start a character idea with, "Here's someone for a romance."  From everything I've read, they create the characters first, then they look them over and see who works for a romance from there.

 

Also, representation of RL sexuality > representation of a fantasy race, which is another part of the team's logic.

[In Exile]

I remember David making reference to other people saying it on his tumblr once.  People seemed to think he was referring to it that way (it was my first exposure to the idea of bisexual erasure).  Maybe it's a valid critique that we should have been clearer about it much earlier, but part of that is going to require me to learn context and to grow past a point where I'm not longer saying to myself "why are people so interested in this concept of playersexual vs bisexual."

 

It's also when I learned that I need to be more careful when I chime in about stuff.  My references to playersexuality were mostly grounded in "I don't really care if that's what someone wants to see the characters as" coupled with some jadedness towards the critics that hated that "everyone" was bisexual.  But by even entering the discussion, in the eyes of some I grant legitimacy to the contents of the discussion.

 

Fair point, Allan. I don't follow David on tumblr (to be honest, I didn't really know what tumblr was until someone linked to DG's page here once), so I'm unaware of what he might have said there. I was thinking more about the various "straight while male gamer" threads we had near the release of DA2 (I should clarify that I'm not trying to mock anyone with that quote - there were a few threads with that phrase in the title). 

I didn't mean to challenge the poster; I just didn't recall anything from you or DG (or Lukas or Sheryl, who still do post, but much more rarely ) with respect to "player sexuality". 

[Former_Fiend]

I've been asking for female qunari and female dwarf romances for a while, but I wouldn't take just any qunari or dwarf LI. They'd need to be a well rounded, well developed character with a compatible personality. 

 

I trust Bioware is very capable of doing that. 

[Allan Schumacher]

I thought that Phate summed that up rather well.     It made sense to me at least.

 

@Asdrubael  They do take player feedback into consideration.  That's probably a very small part of the reason why we have a Qunari romance for the game.  However, they aren't going to start a character idea with, "Here's someone for a romance."  From everything I've read, they create the characters first, then they look them over and see who works for a romance from there.

 

Also, representation of RL sexuality > representation of a fantasy race, which is another part of the team's logic.

 

Yes.  Though I don't know if fan requests made Iron Bull a romance, or if it was just Patrick going "I have some interesting ideas for romance for a Qunari."

 

You could probably make a reasonable argument for "why don't you have more non-humans as companions" but that's not something I'm able to answer.  I'd suggest maybe a tumblr ask.

[Asdrubael Vect]

I've been asking for female qunari and female dwarf romances for a while, but I wouldn't take just any qunari or dwarf LI. They'd need to be a well rounded, well developed character with a compatible personality. 

 

I trust Bioware is very capable of doing that. 

i hope for story dlc what i hope would have new companions/adsisors and Li  who would be non shems and especially not a pro-Orlais/Chantry/Templars and Qun

[Grieving Natashina]

i hope for story dlc what i hope would have new companions 

Well, I don't know if any DLC would have temporary companions, but they confirmed that they aren't releasing full fledged party members with a DLC.  Like what BW has done with Kasumi, Shale, Sebastian and Javik, as an example.  

[Alan Rickman]

 

I didn't really know what tumblr was until someone linked to DG's page here once

 

Isn't it mainly devoted to Loki gifs, incestuous Supernatural fanfiction and Clive Owen?

 

 

(for that last one, the reference is:

)

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

I must be the only one on here who doesn't really mind sexual representation since I have had really nothing to say in this thread for almost 2 days straight lol I guess I just don't see the big deal. Its a video game guys, I could see people mad about something is handled on TV or a Movie but a video game?  

[Former_Fiend]

I think I thought of a character it would work for. 

 

The character is a Qunari(Male or female, though preferably female because a lot of people want that as an option) who had recently become Vashoth. By that I mean was raised in the Qun but escaped when old enough, but has no intention to really fight the Qun so isn't Tal-Vashoth. Since this character was raised by the Qun, they were taught the whole "no feelings, sex is only for reproduction" stuff and as such has never experienced anything that would qualify as romance in their life. They join the protagonist and start to feel this bound start to form with them that they had never experienced before, as well as the protagonist showing interest. Eventually the protagonist confronts them and something like Phate and Jade posted ensues. 

 

The qunari do experience love and romance, though. They just don't express it sexually.