19658 réponses à ce sujet

[A Clever Name]

Well, the problem is that there are no real "fair" reasons. I mean, what is a fair reason?

 

"I had a bad experience with ___ and now I can't connect to them."

"I just think ___ is physically unattractive."

"Being with a ___ could hurt my social standing."

 

Gating is going to happen, we know that much. Two characters will be gated. I can't personally think of any reasons for it that wont rub someone the wrong way.

Ah, sorry.  Bad phrasing - it was a fair guess to make, was what I meant to say.  I think that's going to be the main backlash from this decision to race-gate, though.  People are going to be upset about it and there's really no way to avoid that, even if the explanation given is in some way plausible or makes sense with the character's story.  I suppose I would say that the reason is fair to the character, but not necessarily to the player?  And if the reason is prejudicial, well, your Inquisitor probably doesn't want to date anyone who thinks that way about them anyway.

[Parkimus]

One total blank spot, though, is Blackwall. We really have no idea how he feels about other races, or why. He could easily be a curveball that nobody is expecting. Although, we have no reason to think he would be, we know very little about him. I felt like his interview was the most vague of all of them. 

 

I think part of why Blackwall is my most anticipated companion is the mystery that currently surrounds him.

 

On topic with this thread, I also hope he's one of the remaining LIs

[Phate Phoenix]

David Gaider said in his interview that mages are still nobles, though, they were just taken away at a young age to the circle. I don't know if Sera considers that to still be a noble, or not. It seems that Bioware does consider it to be a noble, so I'm not entirely sure that she wouldn't.

 

One total blank spot, though, is Blackwall. We really have no idea how he feels about other races, or why. He could easily be a curveball that nobody is expecting. Although, we have no reason to think he would be, we know very little about him. I felt like his interview was the most vague of all of them. 

 

Well, we know that the rest of Thedas (except Tevinter, of course) doesn't consider a mage of noble birth to be noble. I don't see why Sera would feel differently. Or, rather, that if she felt that we were of noble blood, the fact that we were looked down on for being a mage would counter that.

 

I tend to just... skip over Blackwall.  Which I feel terrible about, but, really, we know next to nothing about him. At least, nothing that could help pin-point if he's an LI or not.

[Iakus]

David Gaider said in his interview that mages are still nobles, though, they were just taken away at a young age to the circle. I don't know if Sera considers that to still be a noble, or not. It seems that Bioware does consider it to be a noble, so I'm not entirely sure that she wouldn't.

 

 

Well, yeah, mages of noble birth might still be considered to be "noble" but they can't inherit any titles.  And it seems you can be nobility without having a particular title.

 

The Amells were nobility, but Hawke held no special title besides being "Serrah Hawke"

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

Thank you! I'm glad someone appreciates how hard I worked to summarize that information.

 

 

Not that it matters. I made a similar post in the aforementioned "Unfortunate Romance tropes/archetypes" thread and Allan hasn't dignified it with a respond in either thread.

 

In fact, a few pages after I made the post in this thread, he objected to people objecting the lack of non-human/elven female romances, which led me to think, "You haven't read any of my posts, have you?"

 

 

Anyway, back on topic.

 

Bolded: Yeah, everyone just loves the Human Noble PC in every game, regardless of their past experience or opinion of with human nobles or some equivalent. Fenris was horrifically abused by a human magister in the Imperium. While politics work differently there, he seems like the Tevinter equivalent of an extremely powreful noble, but he just can't resist Hawke's wonderful charm. (Of saying things like "There always a use for a handsome elf" pr words to that effect. As an elf-player, I would be REALLY offended if a human noble character used that line on me. It's like, "Yeah, I'm an elf, but I'm also a person. You wouldn't use a line like that on a human, so shush!") Sera isn't that fond of human nobles, but I'm sure she'll just LOVE the Inquisitor!

 

Actually, now that you've posted this, I kind of would like the human noble to get race-gated. When you think about it, human noble PC's have the "objectively best" game content. Have privilege up the wazoo, instant respect everywhere you go, get the best endings and probably the most access to LI's.

 

In DA:O, for instance, a Male Human Noble could romance Morrigan, Leliana, and Zevran, AND marry Anora and become King-Consort. Not a Human Noble? No Anora or crown for you! If you're a Lady Human Noble, you could marry Alistair and become Queen-Consort. In fact, if you crown him, you alone could continue the romance without having to harden him or become his dirty mistress. But in both cases, the HN gets access to some "romantic" content that other races and origins don't get, but they themselves don't lose out on romantic content that other players get. And of course, in DAO the Human Noble got the objectively "best" ending by becoming a monarch and getting back all the wealth, lands, and titles your family lost and then some. Everyone else? Eh, you get the "realistically happy" ending that has the bitter as well as the sweet.

 

I'd kind of like for a Human Noble PC to get race-gated by a companion just so they can lose out on nice content for once.

Even though most of that was optional? My point was I DON'T WANT SERA GATED AGAINST HUMANS.

[Ceoldoren]

Thank you! I'm glad someone appreciates how hard I worked to summarize that information.

 

 

Not that it matters. I made a similar post in the aforementioned "Unfortunate Romance tropes/archetypes" thread and Allan hasn't dignified it with a respond in either thread.

 

In fact, a few pages after I made the post in this thread, he objected to people objecting the lack of non-human/elven female romances, which led me to think, "You haven't read any of my posts, have you?"

 

 

Anyway, back on topic.

 

Bolded: Yeah, everyone just loves the Human Noble PC in every game, regardless of their past experience or opinion of with human nobles or some equivalent. Fenris was horrifically abused by a human magister in the Imperium. While politics work differently there, he seems like the Tevinter equivalent of an extremely powreful noble, but he just can't resist Hawke's wonderful charm. (Of saying things like "There always a use for a handsome elf" pr words to that effect. As an elf-player, I would be REALLY offended if a human noble character used that line on me. It's like, "Yeah, I'm an elf, but I'm also a person. You wouldn't use a line like that on a human, so shush!") Sera isn't that fond of human nobles, but I'm sure she'll just LOVE the Inquisitor!

 

Actually, now that you've posted this, I kind of would like the human noble to get race-gated. When you think about it, human noble PC's have the "objectively best" game content. Have privilege up the wazoo, instant respect everywhere you go, get the best endings and probably the most access to LI's.

 

In DA:O, for instance, a Male Human Noble could romance Morrigan, Leliana, and Zevran, AND marry Anora and become King-Consort. Not a Human Noble? No Anora or crown for you! If you're a Lady Human Noble, you could marry Alistair and become Queen-Consort. In fact, if you crown him, you alone could continue the romance without having to harden him or become his dirty mistress. But in both cases, the HN gets access to some "romantic" content that other races and origins don't get, but they themselves don't lose out on romantic content that other players get. And of course, in DAO the Human Noble got the objectively "best" ending by becoming a monarch and getting back all the wealth, lands, and titles your family lost and then some. Everyone else? Eh, you get the "realistically happy" ending that has the bitter as well as the sweet.

 

I'd kind of like for a Human Noble PC to get race-gated by a companion just so they can lose out on nice content for once.

I don't think we should hope anyone gets gated from someone they want to romance. I mean it's inevitable that some will get gated. But let's not hope for someone to get less content

[jellobell]

I think no human LI will be gated against humans. That leaves Sera, the Bull, Solas, and Varric. The Bull is right out, and Solas has that whole 'open-minded' thing going for him (which is why, if he's gated, it'll have to be from something major, like a lack of Fade connection). While Sera has a thing against nobles, another poster brought up a good point: technically, only human rogues and warriors are noble. So, unless Sera is gender and race and class gated, I think she'll be open to humans.

 

Actually, even though the human mage PC was taken to live in the circle, they're still part of the Trevelyan noble house. So Sera could still dislike them for their noble heritage. Or perhaps it's something more specific, and she has a grudge against the Trevelyans in particular. Though I wonder what the justification would be for her to not fall in love with your Inquisitor, but still become a really good friend. In fact, that's a problem I have with a lot of these justifications for race-gating. Yes, Cullen could be wary of getting close to a Qunari PC, but you're still going to be able to do a character's friendship path even if you're barred from their romance. If he can get past his hesitation enough to be your friend, then why not your lover? Unless it's a "I don't find Qunari attractive" thing, which...eh. I'd accept that but I wouldn't really be satisfied by that sort of explanation.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

Actually, even though the human mage PC was taken to live in the circle, they're still part of the Trevelyan noble house. So Sera could still dislike them for their noble heritage. Or perhaps it's something more specific, and she has a grudge against the Trevelyans in particular. Though I wonder what the justification would be for her to not fall in love with your Inquisitor, but still become a really good friend. In fact, that's a problem I have with a lot of these justifications for race-gating. Yes, Cullen could be wary of getting close to a Qunari PC, but you're still going to be able to do a character's friendship path even if you're barred from their romance. If he can get past his hesitation enough to be your friend, then why not your lover? Unless it's a "I don't find Qunari attractive" thing, which...eh. I'd accept that but I wouldn't really be satisfied by that sort of explanation.

The point is we can come up with as many theories as we want but at least one person can come up with a reason for them not to be race gated, someone is going to get gated whether we can explain against it or not 

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Sera seems like one of the least mature and most quick to judge of any of the companions, so I wouldn't be overly shocked if she didn't recognize the nuanced difference between a noble mage and a non-mage noble.   

[Ceoldoren]

Actually, even though the human mage PC was taken to live in the circle, they're still part of the Trevelyan noble house. So Sera could still dislike them for their noble heritage. Or perhaps it's something more specific, and she has a grudge against the Trevelyans in particular. Though I wonder what the justification would be for her to not fall in love with your Inquisitor, but still become a really good friend. In fact, that's a problem I have with a lot of these justifications for race-gating. Yes, Cullen could be wary of getting close to a Qunari PC, but you're still going to be able to do a character's friendship path even if you're barred from their romance. If he can get past his hesitation enough to be your friend, then why not your lover? Unless it's a "I don't find Qunari attractive" thing, which...eh. I'd accept that but I wouldn't really be satisfied by that sort of explanation.

I think the race gated LI's are all going to be "I'm not attracted to X race" but I think there will be more reason behind it. For instance if Varric is an LI I think he'll be gated against Qunari, because of what he went through at Kirkwall.

[jellobell]

The point is we can come up with as many theories as we want but at least one person can come up with a reason for them not to be race gated, someone is going to get gated whether we can explain against it or not 

 

I know, I'm just curious about how they walked that tightrope between having a reason that a character won't start a relationship with you but are still able to be a really good friend. I actually didn't mind the one they came up with for Iron Bull (his perception of basic physical compatibility), so I'm optimistic.

[Parkimus]

I think the race gated LI's are all going to be "I'm not attracted to X race" but I think there will be more reason behind it. For instance if Varric is an LI I think he'll be gated against Qunari, because of what he went through at Kirkwall.

 

This is why I think Sera and/or Solas may not be interested in romancing a human Inquisitor (due to the strained history between humans and elves or some racial tension in their respective personal lives).

[Ryzaki]

Yeah I like human nobles being generally unrestricted so..please devs keep doing that.

 

As for Fenris you do realize he met Hawke when he/she was dead broke and working with mercs or thieves? I mean...Hawke's not rich til act 2 and even then he/she hardly acts like nobility when they're running through the streets like a street cleaner and constantly going to the Hanged Man in lowtown.

[Ceoldoren]

At least you had the option. 

 

 

Race-gating is a reality, but I think most of us are pretty confident that a non-human will be missing out on content. Again. 

 

So far, human characters never lose access to romantic content that non-nobles get, but non-human nobles lose access to content human nobles get.

 

Pardon me for thinking, "Hey, imagine if someone told the human noble 'no' for once."

Why would humans lose access though ? they are the most standard race. In the lore, their is really no downside to being human. So why would that not be shown in-game ? Elves are considered lesser, and Dwarves are mostly irrelevant on the surface. So of course they'll lose access to things. It's the way Thedas works.

[Lucy Glitter]

Almost 700 pages.

I don't even.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Why would humans lose access though ? they are the most standard race. In the lore, their is really no downside to being human. So why would that not be shown in-game ? Elves are considered lesser, and Dwarves are mostly irrelevant on the surface. So of course they'll lose access to things. It's the way Thedas works.

If "lesser races" are discriminated against by humans just because, you don't think it makes sense for LIs of those races to not always be super keen on humans for treating them that way?  

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Almost 700 pages.

I don't even.

This thread would probably be bigger than Cullen's if it didn't get locked and replaced twice already. lol

[Ryzaki]

Bolded: Yeah, everyone just loves the Human Noble PC in every game, regardless of their past experience with or opinion of human nobles or some equivalent. Fenris was horrifically abused by a human magister in the Imperium. While politics work differently there, magister seems like the Tevinter equivalent of an extremely powerful noble, but Fenris just can't resist Hawke's wonderful charm. (Of coming onto him in an overtly sexual manner, which is apparently charming rather than objectifying.) Sera isn't that fond of human nobles, but I'm sure she'll just LOVE the Inquisitor!

 

You must be kidding me with this comparison.

 

Hawke is hardly a magister. He/she is dirt poor when Fenris meets them, has no power over anyone but themselves (hell this is true pretty much til act 3 and only if you side with the templars and become Vicount) So...yeah this comparison is utterly laughable. Magister =! Noble. All nobles are not assholes (**** Fenris even goes all magisters are not the bottomfeeders that are evil mustache twirlers) and having noble blood doesn't automatically make someone everything bad about nobility.

 

As for the overtly sexual manner Fenris likes this. He likes it with Isabela he likes it with Hawke. Woe and behold some people like it when someone's blunt with their intentions. Cause we all know victims of sexual abuse must always be victims and how dare they like blatant shows of sexuality.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

If "lesser races" are discriminated against by humans just because, you don't think it makes sense for LIs of those races to not always be super keen on humans for treating them that way?  

and yet you have had several city and dalish elves who have showed interests in humans, Fenris who hates mages will still love a mage Hawke

[Ceoldoren]

If "lesser races" are discriminated against by humans just because, you don't think it makes sense for LIs of those races to not always be super keen on humans for treating them that way?  

Out and about, sure I think the Elves should express their dislike of your character. But when it comes to party members, people your supposed to be friends with. I doubt you'll see that.

[TheLastSuperSaiyan87]

This is why I think Sera and/or Solas may not be interested in romancing a human Inquisitor (due to the strained history between humans and elves or some racial tension in their respective personal lives).

Solas I can see not liking humans but Sera has showed no hostility towards humans, doesn't act like your average elf and has probably had relationships with female humans before. 

[Ryzaki]

If "lesser races" are discriminated against by humans just because, you don't think it makes sense for LIs of those races to not always be super keen on humans for treating them that way?  

 

Yes it does.

 

It also makes plenty of sense however for them not to be that hung up on the human PCs nobility title because he/she can hardly act anything like nobility period much less the distasteful forms of it.

 

(Not saying you can't but it tends to be you know optional).

[Nocte ad Mortem]

and yet you have had several city and dalish elves who have showed interests in humans, Fenris who hates mages will still love a mage Hawke

Well, they've never done race gating before, generally. But the point is that gating humans for prejudice makes as much sense as gating anyone else. We've seen plenty of elves that don't like humans and Varric even told Hawke he wasn't interested in them, with possibly serious context. We definitely don't have anything to suggest he does like them.