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To each their own.
I just find it really offputting when all the females in the main group are romanceable or used to be.
I don't believe in positive discrimination. That is, if it is okay to do it with men, it is okay to do it with women.
I wouldn't care in the slightest if all male companions and advisers were romanceable, and I doubt it would have upset people nearly this much, if at all.
Of course there are people who care about it. There are people who care about everything.
That doesn't make it a greater issue than a handful of people not getting the specific type of LI they want.
I really hate how some people in this thread equivocate an interest in greater diversity with the non-human groups and love interest options with something else that has nothing to do with it.
I don't believe in positive discrimination. That is, if it is okay to do it with men, it is okay to do it with women.
I wouldn't care in the slightest if all male companions and advisers were romanceable, and I doubt it would have upset people nearly this much, if at all.
If there were only three male companions and two male advisers and all of them were relatively young and attractive humans or elves, four of whom are romanceable in Inquisition and one of whom was romanceable in Origins...
I'm pretty sure I'd be equally annoyed about it.
I really hate how some people in this thread equivocate an interest in greater diversity with the non-human groups and love interest options with something else that has nothing to do with it.
Because it has nothing to do with greater diversity. We have a qunari companion. We have a dwarf companion. We have a fade spirit, mages, a lesbian city elf, a gay Tevinter noble.
It's nothing more than "I want to be able to romance a female elf with my male elf because I love elves".
If there were only three male companions and two male advisers and all of them were relatively young and attractive humans or elves, four of whom are romanceable in Inquisition and one of whom was romanceable in Origins...
I'm pretty sure I'd be equally annoyed about it.
Pretty sure I wouldn't, and pretty sure most people wouldn't. It wouldn't mean anything, and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest.
Look, there's a reason why this attitude bothers me. The devs obviously created the characters they felt like creating, made them of the gender they felt like, and made love interests those they pleased. No offense, but people complaining about the result come across as cherry picking on numbers and distribution and demanding the devs to submit to their notion of fairness.
Which is one of the main reasons why I dislike fairness as a goal in creating media, even though I respect the intent, even admire it.
I really hate how some people in this thread equivocate an interest in greater diversity with the non-human groups and love interest options with something else that has nothing to do with it.
Like I said early, just having companions of different race doesn't automatically make it diverse
Our companions come from different countries that give a new perspective on their culture
Solas is neither City Elf or Dalish, Cole is a spirit, Blackwall has been a Warden for 10+ years and could possibly be from the Anderfels
Because it has nothing to do with greater diversity. We have a qunari companion. We have a dwarf companion. We have a fade spirit, mages, a lesbian city elf, a gay Tevinter noble.
It's nothing more than "I want to be able to romance a female elf with my male elf because I love elves".
Given the plethora of Andrastian humans who comprise the Inquisition, and the human-centric perspectives in the previous games, I see it as greater diversity. I also don't see any reason to patronize people for wanting to romance a dwarf, a qunari, or an elf. Simply because you aren't interested in it doesn't negate the fact that some people are.
Thedas, particularly southern Thedas, is overwhelmingly Andrastean. The companions should reflect that.
Pretty sure I wouldn't, and pretty sure most people wouldn't. It wouldn't mean anything, and it wouldn't affect me in the slightest.
Look, there's a reason why this attitude bothers me. The devs obviously created the characters they felt like creating, made them of the gender they felt like, and made love interests those they pleased. No offense, but people complaining about the result come across as cherry picking on numbers and distribution and demanding the devs to submit to their notion of fairness.
Which is one of the main reasons why I dislike fairness as a goal in creating media, even though I respect the intent, even admire it.
I agree with you to a large extent. The issue is that so far it looks like all the female characters they "felt like creating" all ended up being young, conventionally attractive, and sexually available to the player in some form or another.
I have no problem with them creating the characters they want and the love interests they please, but that doesn't mean that when they are done I can't look back over what they did and notice a strong bias one way or another. Subconsciously or not I do think there is an underlying issue, and if there was just a single female character in the "main nine" who was old, conventionally unattractive, not human/elven, or not an LI, then I wouldn't have any issue at all.
But there aren't.
Like I said early, just having companions of different race doesn't automatically make it diverse
Our companions come from different countries that give a new perspective on their culture
Different Andrastian perspectives, but as I said before, there are other people who have expressed in interest in non-Andrastian perspectives, and even in non-Andrastian love interests, as the female qunari thread and the Dagna thread can attest to.
Solas is neither City Elf or Dalish, Cole is a spirit, Blackwall has been a Warden for 10+ years and could possibly be from the Anderfels
Cole is a spirit based on a human mage who died, and Blackwall is another human (who seems to be from Orlais, given the letter in WoT). Neither example really changes how there's an interest among some people to see greater diversity outside of the Andrastian spectrum.
I'm not so bothered at the idea that all the females can potentially be romanced, or were romanceable in the past. Love, relationships, and even filngs are a normal part of life. Why wouldn't they be available if they are open to the idea and aren't otherwise committed? It doesn't mean all of the women are available to a person in a single playthrough, and in the alternate game universe where you romance a different character than your first run, that first love interest is not going to be coming after you and demanding to be part of your harem. Probably not, anyway.
Likewise, if some of your companions enter into a relationship with each other if you aren't romancing one of them, that does remove some of the "they're all available only for me!" issue. Because in that case, they are not. They have their own little pixel lives with each other and game life goes on. That alone is enough for me to be all right with whatever split we end up with.
Given the plethora of Andrastian humans who comprise the Inquisition, and the human-centric perspectives in the previous games, I see it as greater diversity. I also don't see why reason to patronize people for wanting to romance a dwarf, a qunari, or an elf. Simply because you aren't interested in it doesn't negate the fact that some people are.
Your in a Organization that was originally Andrastian even before joining the Chantry, it's not that surprising and we don't even know how many of them minus Cassandra, Leliana, Cullen (and Dorian?) are Andrastian
And their religious belief shouldn't even matter since everyone has a common goal
I agree with you to a large extent. The issue is that so far it looks like all the female characters they "felt like creating" all ended up being young, conventionally attractive, and sexually available to the player in some form or another.
Subjective. Cassandra is middle-aged (just as the oldest male companions), and Josephine and Vivienne are likely at least in their early thirties. I don't think any of them is "conventionally attractive" (gods, I hate that expression!). They're some of the least typical female characters you'll find in video games these days, in every sense. And yet is not enough, because they have to fit some arbitrary notion of "fairness".
Criticism is fine. Saying the devs are bigoted for not doing what you want, though, comes across as entitled (not directed at you specifically).
Given the plethora of Andrastian humans who comprise the Inquisition, and the human-centric perspectives in the previous games, I see it as greater diversity. I also don't see why reason to patronize people for wanting to romance a dwarf, a qunari, or an elf. Simply because you aren't interested in it doesn't negate the fact that some people are.
Given the Inquisitions nature I have no issue with the number of humans to elves, dwarves or qunari. Would I rather some of the non-humans were female? Yes, in honesty. But the importance is why.
The issue is statements such as "All the LI's are Andrastian. This isn't diverse", even though we have Qunari, city elves, non-believers and fade spirits in the Inquisition. It's no longer about the cast being diverse, it's about the romances being diverse. It's not about representation in the game, it's about specifically getting to romance them.
Of course it's entirely fair to want to romance a particular race because you find them attractive but be honest about it. That's a matter of sexual/romantic desire, not an issue of "greater diversity".
Criticism is fine. Saying the devs are bigoted for not doing what you want, though, comes across as entitled (not directed at you specifically).
I don't think they are bigoted, I just think that the setup they created has a few unfortunate implications with regards to the number of females and their romance status. I still think that overall it is vastly superior to any other Bioware game, and am very pleased with it.
When I said it was my only complaint with the companion/advisor setup I really meant it. I'm just saying what I think they could have done to make it perfect (at least in my eyes).
Your in a Organization that was originally Andrastian even before joining the Chantry, it's not that surprising and we don't even know how many of them minus Cassandra, Leliana, Cullen (and Dorian?) are Andrastian
And their religious belief shouldn't even matter since everyone has a common goal
The history behind the proto-Inquisition formed by Justinia doesn't alter how there's an interest for greater exposure to the non-Andrastian cultures through companions and love interests. Frankly, I'm baffled that this is such a contentious issue in this thread. I don't see the problem in addressing how some players are interested in different cultural perspectives outside of the human civilizations.
The history behind the proto-Inquisition formed by Justinia doesn't alter how there's an interest for greater exposure to the non-Andrastian cultures through companions and love interests. Frankly, I'm baffled that this is such a contentious issue in this thread. I don't see the problem in addressing how some players are interested in different cultural perspectives outside of the human civilizations.
Iron Bull, Sera (both confirmed), Varric, and Solas (potential love interests) aren't human. Sure, none of them is an option for a straight male Inquisitor. Tough luck, maybe we will fare better next game *shrugs*
Given the Inquisitions nature I have no issue with the number of humans to elves, dwarves or qunari. Would I rather some were female? Yes, in honesty. But the importance is why.
The issue is statements such as "All the LI's are Andrastian. This isn't diverse", even though we have Qunari, city elves, non-believers and fade spirits in the Inquisition. It's no longer about the cast being diverse, it's about the romances being diverse. It's not about representation in the game, it's about specifically getting to romance them.
You do get insights in romances that you don't sometimes get in friendship, such as Anders explaining his relationship with Karl and how it was like being a mage in the Circle, or Isabela opening up about her past in Rivain. It shouldn't be a surprise that some people feel that romances can open up these avenues in a way that a friendship may not be able to. A hypothetical romance with Dagna or a Tal-Vashoth could have done the same for some players, where the former could have given more insight into dwarven culture and the latter could have addressed Qunari life before defecting, which is simply one of the many reasons why some expressed an interest in seeing more racial diversity.
Of course it's entirely fair to want to romance a particular race because you find them attractive but be honest about it. That's a matter of sexual/romantic desire, not an issue of "greater diversity".
Quite simply, it's both.
A hypothetical romance with Dagna or a Tal-Vashoth could have done the same for some players, where the former could have given more insight into dwarven culture and the latter could have addressed Qunari life before defecting, which is simply one of the many reasons why some expressed an interest in seeing more racial diversity.
There is at least one NPC romance, it just isn't as fleshed out as the companion or adviser romances.
There is at least one NPC romance, it just isn't as fleshed out as the companion or adviser romances.
I thought it was merely a flirt option, as opposed to a full-fledged romance? I know some in the Dagna thread were hoping she might have been the last romance option before the developers clarified the issue.
I thought it was merely a flirt option, as opposed to a full-fledged romance? I know some in the Dagna thread were hoping she might have been the last romance option before the developers clarified the issue.
I think David Gaider implied something along those lines. It's not counted among the big eight because it isn't nearly as fleshed out, apparently, but what I took from dev tweets is that you can do more than flirt.
It could be similar to Kelly in ME2, where the game doesn't really consider it a romance even though story-wise it still is.
There is at least one NPC romance, it just isn't as fleshed out as the companion or adviser romances.
You do get insights in romances that you don't sometimes get in friendship, such as Anders explaining his relationship with Karl and how it was like being a mage in the Circle, or Isabela opening up about her past in Rivain. It shouldn't be a surprise that some people feel that romances can open up these avenues in a way that a friendship may not be able to. A hypothetical romance with Dagna or a Tal-Vashoth could have done the same for some players, where the former could have given more insight into dwarven culture and the latter could have addressed Qunari life before defecting, which is simply one of the many reasons why some expressed an interest in seeing more racial diversity.
It's true that it does reveal a bit more information, but I strongly disagree with the idea that romance is needed in order for the character to properly represent something, even if said thing is a sexuality. Sten was no less a representation of the Qunari because he was not a romance option, and Merrill was no less a representation of the Dalish on her non-romance friendship/rivalry path.
In fact I can think of very few romance-specific things about the cultures that was mentioned. Mostly the romance content just revolves around... well, romance. Merrill, for instance, says a bit about how being in a relationship with a human would anger her clan, but it is incredibly downplayed, amounting to nothing beyond a single line of dialogue acknowledging something we already knew.
I think David Gaider implied something along those lines. It's not counted among the big eight because it isn't nearly as fleshed out, apparently, but what I took from dev tweets is that you can do more than flirt.
It could be similar to Kelly in ME2, where the game doesn't really consider it a romance even though story-wise it still is.
That would be nice.
I think David Gaider implied something along those lines. It's not counted among the big eight because it isn't nearly as fleshed out, apparently, but what I took from dev tweets is that you can do more than flirt.
It could be similar to Kelly in ME2, where the game doesn't really consider it a romance even though story-wise it still is.
Perhaps something akin to a male Cousland and Anora from DAO? I have a run with that pair ruling at the end, and, while it isn't really written out, I like the implications that the two of them do eventually fall in love with one another. I'd be good with something like that.
It's true that it does reveal a bit more information, but I strongly disagree with the idea that romance is needed in order for the character to properly represent something, even if said thing is a sexuality. Sten was no less a representation of the Qunari because he was not a romance option, and Merrill was no less a representation of the Dalish on her non-romance friendship/rivalry path.
In fact I can think of very few romance-specific things about the cultures that was mentioned. Mostly the romance content just revolves around... well, romance. Merrill, for instance, says a bit about how being in a relationship with a human would anger her clan, but it is incredibly downplayed, amounting to nothing beyond a single line of dialogue acknowledging something we already knew.
I didn't view that scene in the same way you did, apparently. Merrill acknowledges that the Dalish are supposed to maintain their Elvhen heritage, and she addresses that (with a male Hawke). It's a sacrifice she's willing to make because she loves Hawke, since her children will be entirely human (which is something the developers have addressed, as well as "The Calling" and "The Masked Empire"). I thought it was incredibly significant because it addressed that her love for Hawke was more important than this.
Your in a Organization that was originally Andrastian even before joining the Chantry, it's not that surprising and we don't even know how many of them minus Cassandra, Leliana, Cullen (and Dorian?) are Andrastian
And their religious belief shouldn't even matter since everyone has a common goal
Pretty sure Dorian is Andrastian, considering the E3 demo where he goes "What in Andraste's name is that?" Plus, Tevinter is an Andrastian society (albeit far removed from the majority's interpretation). I think most of the cast is at least familiar with the Chantry and its perspectives. Off the top of my head Iron Bull is the only one that we know for certain isn't from an Andrastian society/culture. It would have been nice to see some more diversity in religious beliefs (I am all about dat world building), but I think we've got some interesting perspectives even with the cast we have now. Everyone comes from different parts of Thedas. I'm excited to see just how different Tevinter's brand of the Chantry is from most of Thedas'.
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