19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Yinello]

I can see why it would annoy people, but c'mon...

 

No one is actually a dwarf (In the mythical DA sense) or an elf or qunari, and having a black woman, a race that is REAL and REALLY does get that excuse ALL the time in the real world ("I'm just not attracted to black people") is friggin hilarious. 

 

I think it's more the absolute that annoys people.

 

I could claim that I'm not attracted to black people, meet an amazing black guy/gal who rocks my world and realize that I can be attracted to black people because everyone is a different individual. If in game for example Vivienne claimed she isn't into Dwarves and after some amazing rescue missions she changes her mind, that'd be great. I can deal with Viv simply not being into me as a person just like Varric isn't into Hawke or me not being into my best friend not matter what she does. To completely rule out an entire race is wonky and often riddled with creepy underlying reasons.

[Ailith Tycane]

I think it's more the absolute that annoys people.

 

I could claim that I'm not attracted to black people, meet an amazing black guy/gal who rocks my world and realize that I can be attracted to black people because everyone is a different individual. If in game for example Vivienne claimed she isn't into Dwarves and after some amazing rescue missions she changes her mind, that'd be great. I can deal with Viv simply not being into me as a person just like Varric isn't into Hawke or me not being into my best friend not matter what she does. To completely rule out an entire race is wonky and often riddled with creepy underlying reasons.

 

Why though? This happens all the time in the real world. Just because you are willing to change your mind doesn't mean a lot of other people are.

[HuldraDancer]

I still like the reason I saw on the Solas thread where the race-gating would actually involve story events, as in his romance could be triggered in dreams thus unavailable to those who can't dream.

 

Never heard that theory yet, closest one I've heard is just because they can't share his passion (which I still think Dagna proves otherwise) but a dream only romance would be an interesting way to go about why he can't romance dwarves though I would be curious to know why wold the romance only be while in the Fade but if the game went that route I would expect them to answer that for me.

[Yinello]

Why though? This happens all the time in the real world. Just because you are willing to change your mind doesn't mean a lot of other people are.

 

Because in the real world there's so many people out there that if someone outright racegates you, even with terrible motives, you can easily move on. In DA:I though we only have 8 LIs. This is why limits become annoying because everytime that happens it means less diverse romances. It also gives complications with the companions we're supposed to enjoy working with (is s/he maybe a racist? would we want to work with them at all?). If Dragon Age had like 30 LIs I would've said sure, let's even have them classgated or picky on appearances.

[Lee80]

Some of these guesses seems like you are solving a complex math equation.  Honestly, I don't think anyone can really complain about a lack of options.  We already have as many options as we had in the last game...even with a bit of a chance of race gating.  There really is no guarantee the last 2 love interest will be bi, it'd be nice, but who knows at this point?  

 

I'm just still so grateful that we got Dorian as the gay romance instead of someone that's close to his calling.  That was the other leading theory and that used to make me sick at my stomach, which I know -back away from the game and stop taking it so serious- but yeah...that was me before the Dorian's sexuality was revealed.  

 

I guess the real point of my ramble is, be thankful if you already have one love interest you like, and hope for the best...but perhaps don't build your expectations up too high.  I've seen some extreme posts of late.  

[Vapaa]

To completely rule out an entire race is wonky and often riddled with creepy underlying reasons.

 

No, people rule out entire genders and that doesn't make them sexists.

[Ailith Tycane]

Because in the real world there's so many people out there that if someone outright racegates you, even with terrible motives, you can easily move on. In DA:I though we only have 8 LIs. This is why limits become annoying because everytime that happens it means less diverse romances. It also gives complications with the companions we're supposed to enjoy working with (is s/he maybe a racist? would we want to work with them at all?). If Dragon Age had like 30 LIs I would've said sure, let's even have them classgated or picky on appearances.

 

Sorry I don't see the problem. For one, 8 romances total is a lot, and two, the companions already have restrictions as far as sexuality. Not everyone is going to get what they want and people are going to have to make different choices for their playthroughs if someone is not available. And considering romances are optional and it's kind of amazing Bioware even includes them compared to other companies, I don't see the issue with race gating for no other reason than "this character doesn't like _____, end of discussion."

 

Because as I said before, if the race gating is by DA mythical races, then it doesn't have real world ramifications because no one playing this game is actually an elf, etc. It would be different if they race gated based on actual real world races, but they wont. 

[Yinello]

No, people rule out entire genders and that doesn't make them sexists.

 

But sexualities and race preferences aren't the same thing. A gay man simply cannot be attracted to women (and this is not counting the Kinsey scale where one could have a bigger preference towards men but still be attracted to a few women). I have not heard of a person simply not being able to be attracted to one race or only being attracted to one race*. I don't even know if there's a word for it. They usually gravitate towards the people they are used to seeing in life but that doesn't mean they can't differ.

 

*If there is a study that has tested this, I would like to know, considering this is anecdotal.

 

Anyway considering that I'm probably not explaining my side well enough, I'll step out of the argument.

[Vapaa]

 

Because as I said before, if the race gating is by DA mythical races, then it doesn't have real world ramifications because no one playing this game is actually an elf, etc. It would be different if they race gated based on actual real world races, but they wont. 

 

I also disagree on the fact that DA race-gating would have an equivalent in our world, in any shape or form.

 

IRL race has no relevance when it comes to humans, where DA's "races" are different species altogether.

[Basement Cat]

No, people rule out entire genders and that doesn't make them sexists.

It's an incredibly tricky subject though, isn't it?

 

I'm not attracted to people of a certain gender? Well, that's ok. You can't help that.

I'm not attracted to people of a certain color: Ok. Can't really help that either.

I'm not attracted to people of a certain body type? Ok. That's personal preference.

I'm not attracted to people with a certain hair color: Ok... that's being a little picky...

I'm not attracted to people who dress a certain way: Err... we're veering into shallow territory here.

 

 

It can be hard to determine where the line is between "well, can't help that" and " you're being shallow". Physical attraction can only justify so many things when it comes to a relationship. The cosmetic aspect is just that: cosmetic. There are some aspects that can be overlooked in favor of personality, but everyone has their fundamentals and we really can't control who we are attracted to. With that said, sometimes attraction starts after we get to know someone. Love is blind and all that.

 

N.B. I am not saying that sexual orientation can be influenced by this. It's not a matter of 'you haven't met the right man/woman'. Some things just can't be changed.

[Ailith Tycane]

The idea of attraction or lack of attraction to certain races doesn't exist in a vacuum though. We (westerners) come from a culture where whiteness is seen as the default in beauty and deviating from that in any way is ugly. It also comes from extremely racist ideas of what "all" black people are like (uneducated, rude, lazy, etc etc.) So no, I don't think someone saying they aren't attracted to black people is something that can't be helped, I think it's something that's been socially ingrained in literally all of us since we were old enough to consume any type of media whether some people realize it or not.

 

Even people from those minority groups sometimes hate the way they look. That's why someone like Whoopie Goldberg literally sat in bleach as a child to try and make her skin white. That's why black women feel so compelled to straighten their hair, and it's why Asian women get surgery to make their eyes look more white, and why a lot of Mexican people will go out of their way to avoid the sun so they don't tan at all and remain as pale as possible. 

 

Anyway, this is derailing the topic completely, I just think it's really important for people to realize, this isn't the same as sexual orientation, no one is born thinking ALL black people are ugly. 

 

To make this more relevant to DA, I wouldn't support race gating in DA for the sake of "Realism" because I feel like that's a slippery slope where people would use it as an excuse to be genuinely racist, but because like I said before, there are no elves and qunari in real life, So there's no negative representation issues there. And second, I just find it personally funny that a black female character in game would be racist within the confines of the DA universe, especially since there have been so many ugly comments about her being unattractive for being black from people online.

[Vapaa]

But sexualities and race preferences aren't the same thing. A gay man simply cannot be attracted to women (and this is not counting the Kinsey scale where one could have a bigger preference towards men but still be attracted to a few women). I have not heard of a person simply not being able to be attracted to one race or only being attracted to one race*. I don't even know if there's a word for it. They usually gravitate towards the people they are used to seeing in life but that doesn't mean they can't differ.

 

But what the real world considers as "race" and what DA considers as "race" are two ENTIRELY different things. That's why RL analogies doesn't work.

 

It's an incredibly tricky subject though, isn't it?

 

I'm not attracted to people of a certain gender? Well, that's ok. You can't help that.

I'm not attracted to people of a certain color: Ok. Can't really help that either.

I'm not attracted to people of a certain body type? Ok. That's personal preference.

I'm not attracted to people with a certain hair color: Ok... that's being a little picky...

I'm not attracted to people who dress a certain way: Err... we're veering into shallow territory here.

 

 

It can be hard to determine where the line is between "well, can't help that" and " you're being shallow". Physical attraction can only justify so many things when it comes to a relationship. The cosmetic aspect is just that: cosmetic. There are some aspects that can be overlooked in favor of personality, but everyone has their fundamentals and we really can't control who we are attracted to. With that said, sometimes attraction starts after we get to know someone. Love is blind and all that.

 

N.B. I am not saying that sexual orientation can be influenced by this. It's not a matter of 'you haven't met the right man/woman'. Some things just can't be changed.

 

Well, I see the attraction to species (screw the race, it's too misleading) as being on the same level of gender, if not higher.
 

[Lee80]

Real life preferences relating to prejudices are probably a bit too off topic for the subject matter of this thread.  Not to mention could lead to some really tense and unproductive conversations.  Just my opinion on the issue though.  

[Dirgegun]

I'm not sure you can really compare the DA races to real world races? I mean, there's plenty of people on this forum, for example, who feel that any attraction people have towards the qunari is a fetish, simply because they can't understand being attracted to giant 'ox-men' themselves?

 

It's also possible this story based race-gating does come from a form of racist point of view? Varric, for example, seems to have something against the Qun/Qunari now after the events in Kirkwall. 

[Ailith Tycane]

Real life preferences relating to prejudices are probably a bit too off topic for the subject matter of this thread.  Not to mention could lead to some really tense and unproductive conversations.  Just my opinion on the issue though.  

 

Yeah, I don't intend on continuing the subject, I just think it's super important for people to realize. If the mods think it's not appropriate for the discussion they will remove it and then no harm lol.

[BabyFratelli]

The reason it's hard to use our world as a comparison to Thedas on this particular topic is because races and ethnicities work differently there. Using the word 'race' to distinguish between say, white people and japanese people, is wrong. We're all humans, we're all part of the human race. The distinction is actually that we're different ethnicities within our race. There are no other humanoid races on earth. that we know of.

 

also note that this does not mean racism doesn't exist, like the kid in my tutorial was trying to argue. it means that racism is a frequently misunderstood social construct with no rational basis, and a badly suited name that reflects the ignorance of the act itself. PM me if you want to have that argument, I refuse to have it here.

 

In Thedas, there are four sentient humanoid races who also have different ethnicities inside of their respective races. We know from what we've experienced in game that it isn't totally weird or unheard of for elves to get together with humans, but for all we know it could be entirely taboo and unheard of for a Qunari and an elf to get together. There could be the same kind of tabooness on that that there are for siblings here. We just don't know, and we've got nothing to compare and contrast it with because there are no other races on earth for us to use as examples. I think it's one of those things we'll have to wait to see in game before we can actually understand it, and any non-preferential reasons there could be behind race-gating. 

 

disclaimer: i don't think that an elf getting with a qunari is the equivalent of our world incest, that's just an example.

[daveliam]

No, people rule out entire genders and that doesn't make them sexists.

 

This is not exactly the same thing.  I see people on these boards using this argument a lot and, frankly, it seems a bit forced.  In all of recorded human history, I don't know of a single culture that has a word for "being attracted to a single race".  If this were a "sexual orientation", as you are suggesting, then why isn't it treated like this in any capacity? 

 

I think that the people who find race-gating distasteful are pointing out that to rule out an entire race because of "lack of attraction" is really vague.  Why?  What exactly makes you "not attracted to" that race?  Is it particular features?  Then what about members of that race who don't show those features (for example, qunari without horns)?  Or members of another race that do (for example, short humans)?  It seems, to me, very narrow minded to immediately say no to an entire race just because.  I'd need something more for me to accept that as an excuse.

[Ailith Tycane]

I think that the people who find race-gating distasteful are pointing out that to rule out an entire race because of "lack of attraction" is really vague.  Why?  What exactly makes you "not attracted to" that race?  Is it particular features?  Then what about members of that race who don't show those features (for example, qunari without horns)?  Or members of another race that do (for example, short humans)?  It seems, to me, very narrow minded to immediately say no to an entire race just because.  I'd need something more for me to accept that as an excuse.

 

Their reasons would probably be the same as the reasons people have in the real world. ingrained standards of beauty and racist beliefs about what qualities that race does or doesn't have. 

[Vapaa]

This is not exactly the same thing.  I see people on these boards using this argument a lot and, frankly, it seems a bit forced.  In all of recorded human history, I don't know of a single culture that has a word for "being attracted to a single race".  If this were a "sexual orientation", as you are suggesting, then why isn't it treated like this in any capacity?

 

Human history was never confronted to different sentient species, so RL analogies are biased. I don't see what makes attraction to gender that much different to attraction to species.

 

I think that the people who find race-gating distasteful are pointing out that to rule out an entire race because of "lack of attraction" is really vague.  Why?  What exactly makes you "not attracted to" that race?  Is it particular features?  Then what about members of that race who don't show those features (for example, qunari without horns)?  Or members of another race that do (for example, short humans)?  It seems, to me, very narrow minded to immediately say no to an entire race just because.  I'd need something more for me to accept that as an excuse.

 

In that case, why not question sexuality too ? "Why ?  What exactly makes you "not attracted to" that gender?  Is it particular features?" and that is a slippery slope.

I don't see why attraction to gender should be questionned, therefore I don't see why attraction to species should be questionned, for I don't see what in their core is different.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I can relate to race gating, because I don't believe there's actually a chance I could be attracted to a dwarf, for example. I don't really believe there exists a dwarven man in the entire history of our experience with Thedas that's not short and stocky with a particularly rugged look in the face. I very much doubt that they'll allow you to create a dwarf in game that looks like a human or elf, so the chance for a genetic anomaly is not particularly relevant. I can totally relate to the idea of never being able to feel attraction to that specific set of traits. I think maybe some people here just don't have the same feeling towards any given race, so it's harder for them to relate to it. Not everyone is totally flexible when it comes to attraction, especially since the races in Thedas are extremely different in comparison to any differences humans have on Earth. To me, it makes plenty of sense. You can't really compare races in real life with qunari and dwarves. Elves, maybe, in the Origins/Inquisition context.   

[azarhal]

 Iron Bull was probably planned gated towards dwarves.

 

Going by how much weekend time John put into IB, I don't think he was just gated against dwarves.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

Going by how much weekend time John put into IB, I don't think he was just gated against dwarves.

Well, that's the baseline, I think. I'm pretty sure he was gated against at least dwarves. It may have easily been more. 

[Wulfram]

I'd probably look askance at anyone who had a strict "no dwarves" policy.  But I don't think I'd have a problem with someone who didn't as a rule find dwarves attractive, even if this included the Dwarf Inquisitor.