19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Nocte ad Mortem]

What we know is that they said they used the chart to make sure everyone got two options. Straight men and lesbians do have two options, so it is possible that Vivienne is not included, theoretically. IB's gates would mean there would need to be another bisexual male options, because without it either straight women or gay men wouldn't have had two options for some races if they hadn't finished IB on time. What additional gates do you think would be put on the male side that required another character to fill in? It seems like they wouldn't slant things 4/2 in some cases unless they were really in a tight spot. At least, that's how it seems to me, since they've said gender/sexuality distribution was their priority. I'm just having a hard time seeing the distribution without Vivienne.   

[venusara]

That would be still extremely unfair. That would mean straight women and gay men getting much more options - all they would need to do is choosing different race for PC in next playthrough, which would even add more replay value for them. And it's not the same as playing as different gender, because it's their sexuality that's represented this way.

Can you explain that last statement further, having trouble understanding what you meant by that....I feel as though gender representation is extremely important, and as a straight woman, I'd much rather play as a lesbian than as a man.

[WildOrchid]

There is a lots of things that makes me think Vivienne will not be a LI and it's all based on what we know of her and the other characters. The only way I could see Vivienne being a LI is if Sera is race-gated against humans and Vivienne exist to provide that choice only.

 

What if Viv is race gated against humans instead?

[daveliam]

That would be still extremely unfair. That would mean straight women and gay men getting much more options - all they would need to do is choosing different race for PC in next playthrough, which would even add more replay value for them. And it's not the same as playing as different gender, because it's their sexuality that's represented this way.

 

While I agree that the distribution would not be even, I am not so sure that it is a criteria that they are using to make their decisions.  It seems like they were really concerned with everyone getting two options so that there is choice.  Well, we've got that at this point.  Everyone has two options.  (*Sidenote, I agree 100% with Morte that there is probably going to be another bisexual male who is gated but available to dwarves, to "make up" for IB's gating - even though his was 'fixed', it was only fixed recently and it's likely that it was against dwarves at least).

 

The idea that there has to be a 4/4 split is nice and I support it, but I wouldn't  hang my hat on it.  Remember how vehemently people argued that Dorian, Blackwall, and Cole couldn't possibly be the last three companions because that would make a 6-3 split in companions and there's no way that Bioware would do that?  Well, they did. 

 

I think that they were really concerned about giving choice, which they've done.  Everything else from this point on it "extra", so it might or might not be 'distributed evenly".

[Former_Fiend]

What if Viv is race gated against humans instead?

 

The reason I don't think there will be any gating against humans, despite the fact that I would love there to be some gating against humans, is that a year ago humans were all the game was going to have.

 

I imagine that by that point the romances for the game were already set, gating was just going to be a matter of who they could get the animations done for in the extra year they got. Like others have said, I can't imagine they'd remove any options for humans after the fact, nor do I think they've added any.

[daveliam]

Deffinately an easy cop out.

If she's not a LI, then someone has to provide a better reason.

 

Why though?  Why can't they just say that she's not interested?  Perhaps they just didn't think that a romance storyline was one that they intended for this character.  They don't really need to provide any other reasons outside of, "she's just not that into you."

[Milan92]

I don't expect any of the human companions to be gated against humans.

[Sporothrix]

I don't disagree. I hope they will do a male and female bisexual character for the last two, for the 2/4/2 configuration. I'm not arguing for another distribution, I'm just discussing what I think is possible. But, like I said, what seems most likely to me is that Vivienne and another male will be the last options and I think they will be bisexual.

 

In such case, I don't see any reason why they would bother with all those egalitarian talks, if the reality would be that some animals are more equal than the others. It would leave a bitter taste, especially considering that female characters already got much smaller representation than male characters in this part.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

I think it would be unfortunate if the gender/sexuality balance was off, but I don't think they ever need to give you a reason why a character doesn't want to be in a relationship with you. People can just not be interested in romance. There doesn't need to be a story behind it. 

[Hellion Rex]

While I agree that the distribution would not be even, I am not so sure that it is a criteria that they are using to make their decisions. It seems like they were really concerned with everyone getting two options so that there is choice. Well, we've got that at this point. Everyone has two options. (*Sidenote, I agree 100% with Morte that there is probably going to be another bisexual male who is gated but available to dwarves, to "make up" for IB's gating - even though his was 'fixed', it was only fixed recently and it's likely that it was against dwarves at least).

The idea that there has to be a 4/4 split is nice and I support it, but I wouldn't hang my hat on it. Remember how vehemently people argued that Dorian, Blackwall, and Cole couldn't possibly be the last three companions because that would make a 6-3 split in companions and there's no way that Bioware would do that? Well, they did.

I think that they were really concerned about giving choice, which they've done. Everything else from this point on it "extra", so it might or might not be 'distributed evenly".

In regards to Bull, Gaider said that there was supposed to be 3 race gated romances initially, until John Epler fixed it all, so there's no need to "make up" for losing Bull's race gating.

[Former_Fiend]

I honestly don't see a reason why Viv won't be an LI. I think the reasoning largely comes out of the same mentality that had people wanting Iron Bull or Blackwall as rogues so Cullen could be the third warrior; wishful thinking. A lot of people want Solas, Varric, and Blackwall as LI's. All three isn't going to happen, but the 3/5 model at least gives them two out of the three. 

 

There's also the view that all three of the female companions being LI's is somehow squicky or objectifying, but Gaider's posts and blogs on the matter of gender distribution lead me to believe that's not necessarily a major deciding factor. 

 

As for the gating, while I remain adamantly opposed to it, Vivienne makes the most sense as a gated romance out of anyone. If anything, her being gated against elves makes more sense than Cullen being gated against qunari.

[godModeAlpha]

What if Viv is race gated against humans instead?

 

Say what (*rolls eyes*)?

 

[Sporothrix]

There's also the view that all three of the female companions being LI's is somehow squicky or objectifying, but Gaider's posts and blogs on the matter of gender distribution lead me to believe that's not necessarily a major deciding factor. 

Not to mention that her not being an LI would mean that the only black woman character that has already been made a target of racist remarks due to her appearance is the only female character that's not romanceable, which would also be problematic.

[CrimsonN7]

Can you explain that last statement further, having trouble understanding what you meant by that....I feel as though gender representation is extremely important, and as a straight woman, I'd much rather play as a lesbian than as a man.

 

 

 

I for one fully support your conversion to the pink side, we got Sera and Jo.

[jtav]

While I'd certainly appreciate Blackwall, the main reason I wan't 5.3 is just so we could have one female on the team who isn't a current or former LI. If it were up to me, I'd just keep we have the six we have now.

[Nocte ad Mortem]

In regards to Bull, Gaider said that there was supposed to be 3 race gated romances initially, until John Epler fixed it all, so there's no need to "make up" for losing Bull's race gating.

They used the chart, when writing the romances, to make sure everyone got 2 options, regardless of gender, sexuality or race. IB wasn't "fixed" until long after the romances would have been written. That means that they would have needed another bisexual male to make sure both straight women and gay men had options in the slots that IB lost. If the last male was either gay or straight, the other side would have been lacking the options that IB was gated for. He did get fixed, but they didn't know he would be when they wrote the romances. He was only fixed in about the last month, since they said they still didn't know if he would be ready when they put out his profile with the "wont break" line.

[venusara]

 

 
I for one fully support your conversion to the pink side, we got Sera and Jo.

Oh I'll definitely be romancing them both as a woman! I'm only doing one playthrough as a man and that will be to romance Dorian. No straight male playthrough for me, least appealing option of all.

[Neesa]

That can be applied to any companion/advisor. Vivienne may simply be uninterested in a romance, you know 

 

Completely missed my point. Saying she doesn't have time insinuates that she needs to specifically make time for romance. That does not have to be the case for something to develop.

[CrimsonN7]

Oh I'll definitely be romancing them both as a woman! I'm only doing one playthrough as a man and that will be to romance Dorian. No straight male playthrough for me, least appealing option of all.

I like to do one gay romance and one straight romance myself, like in Origins my canon was my Dalish she-elf/Leliana. My straight option was human male noble/Morrigan.

 

This time round, I'm still undecided on what gal I will pick for my lesbian option but for the straight one, Cass seems likely. Will play and see, nothing is set in stone yet. Lol either way I will be romancing a woman!

[wright1978]

Still hoping for 2-4-2. Having 8 li's and splitting them in such an unbalanced gender distribution(5-3) would be a shame IMO.

[daveliam]

In regards to Bull, Gaider said that there was supposed to be 3 race gated romances initially, until John Epler fixed it all, so there's no need to "make up" for losing Bull's race gating.

 

Yeah, I guess if there are two other males who are both bisexual and race-gated, then IB would be moot.  However, if Vivienne is a LI and race-gated, then the remaining has to be open to dwarves, otherwise (prior to IB's "fix") straight lady and gay male dwarves wouldn't have had two options.

[venusara]

I like to do one gay romance and one straight romance myself, like in Origins my canon was my Dalish she-elf/Leliana. My straight option was human male noble/Morrigan.
 
This time round, I'm still undecided on what gal I will pick for my lesbian option but for the straight one, Cass seems likely. Will play and see, nothing is set in stone yet. Lol either way I will be romancing a woman!

Hahaha, I find it interesting to learn what people's second and third choices are as far as gender/sexuality combo for gameplay. Your reasoning there makes a lot of sense! Anyone else want to share their preferences?

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Yeah, I guess if there are two other males who are both bisexual and race-gated, then IB would be moot.  However, if Vivienne is a LI and race-gated, then the remaining has to be open to dwarves, otherwise (prior to IB's "fix") straight lady and gay male dwarves wouldn't have had two options.

Could be Blackwall then. After all, the Dwarves and Grey Wardens love each other as factions.

They have so much in common like killing Darkspawn and not wanting to die and...no, that's pretty much it. 

[godModeAlpha]

Why though?  Why can't they just say that she's not interested?  Perhaps they just didn't think that a romance storyline was one that they intended for this character.  They don't really need to provide any other reasons outside of, "she's just not that into you."

"she's just not that into you." Is a lot better than saying "she's too busy for romance". The latter is a bit shallow. It's difficult to imagine a character like Vivienne saying that. I don't believe she's emotionless in the love department.

[Sporothrix]

The idea that there has to be a 4/4 split is nice and I support it, but I wouldn't  hang my hat on it.  Remember how vehemently people argued that Dorian, Blackwall, and Cole couldn't possibly be the last three companions because that would make a 6-3 split in companions and there's no way that Bioware would do that?  Well, they did. 

 

So, your point is that since they already failed at gender equality issue due to incredibly skewed representation, it wouldn't be a problem if they failed too when it comes to treatment of lesbian players?

 

If those 2 remaining LIs were both bisexual male, even if race-gated, it would mean that gay men and straight women would potentially get 4 options, while lesbians (and straight men) only 2. I bet they would be praised for their "egalitarian" approach.