( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Romances
Débuté par
Allan Schumacher
, juin 13 2014 09:22
-
Ce sujet est fermé
- Show only BioWare posts
#18526
Posté 21 juillet 2014 - 11:54
HellaciousHutch
-
- Members
- 386 messages
- thecookiesuspectsnothing, SmilesJA et Mrs.Chestbeard aiment ceci
Retour en haut
#18527
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 12:13
Chron0id
-
- Members
- 604 messages
I think that's where the "rip the bandaid" mentality is coming from. We know that folks are going to be upset, so we'd rather get it out of their systems. I've just promised myself that I'm not going to stress it anymore.
I'm just over here enjoying myself because I already have what I want: Cassandra. I couldn't even care less about the last two love interests.
Although if she's race-gated....someone is going to pay.
#18528
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 12:16
Grieving Natashina
-
- Members
- 14 554 messages
While I hope she isn't race-gated either, I guess I can't feel that strongly about race-gating any of the characters at this point. I wouldn't want anyone to pay for it, I'd just be disappointed. Well, I would make someone pay for it: I'd hit as high of level as I could to survive, then slaughter every last damn dragon and high level mob I see.
- Chron0id aime ceci
#18530
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 01:06
Deviija
-
- Members
- 1 865 messages
BG2 4x, ME 1x, ME2 2x already, ME3 almost x2, DA:O about 10-12x, DA2 about 7-8x. I love replaying good games. Sometimes, it's like revisiting old friends.
That's the main draw for me in replaying BioWare and similar games, where companions are fleshed out and there is interpersonal relationships and dramas and ups and downs to deal with.
There is a reason why I have played BG2 (+ToB xpack) nearly annually since it was released. With BG2:EE, it has given me even more life and interest in replaying the game. Jade Empire x2, KOTOR 1 roughly 3 times, NWN HotU x2, ME1 x5, ME2 x3, ME3 x2, DA:O x8, DA2 x2. I am hoping to play DA:I at least a good 6 times, if not more.
Not BW, but I've played KOTOR 2 x3. Kreia is one of my favorite characters in video games. Brilliant.
Also, Meredith x Orsino? I ship it. Meredino.
- daveliam aime ceci
#18532
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 01:30
Lillian
-
- Members
- 746 messages
I wonder why Orsino was just standing there. Hmmm...
- Nefla aime ceci
#18534
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 02:02
HuldraDancer
-
- Members
- 4 793 messages
You might like these then.
Spoiler
- Lillian aime ceci
#18535
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 02:32
Ninjasplaycardgames2
-
- Members
- 1 021 messages
You might like these then.
Spoiler
Meredith does it in while wearing armor?
- Lillian aime ceci
#18536
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 02:41
carlo angelo
-
- Members
- 725 messages
This whole Meredith and Orsino thing just sings Morgan Proctor from that Futurama episode...
Just use "dirty mage" instead.
#18537
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 02:47
HuldraDancer
-
- Members
- 4 793 messages
Meredith does it in while wearing armor?
Why not? Fenris did.
#18538
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 02:48
Grieving Natashina
-
- Members
- 14 554 messages
Why not? Fenris did.
I hope not. Ouch. 
#18539
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 02:50
HuldraDancer
-
- Members
- 4 793 messages
I hope not. Ouch.
Must be like the chains and tattoos not way to remove them >>
#18540
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 03:55
Nocte ad Mortem
-
- Members
- 5 136 messages
I will be the one raging if so.
The Powers That Be have already made it clear that they don't care. Two vs any amount higher than two has the official Biower seal of fairness.
#18541
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 04:16
Vapaa
-
- Members
- 5 028 messages
The Powers That Be have already made it clear that they don't care. Two vs any amount higher than two has the official Biower seal of fairness.
#18542
Guest_Luther_*
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 05:32
Guest_Luther_*
Guest_Luther_*
-
- Guests
I've been thinking about that, and I'm actually not so sure any more. It's possible to David's relatively blunt "Not all race/gender combinations will have equal options" and stance that getting less options based on race choice didn't matter as much as gender/sexuality to mean that gay male/straight female dwarves originally only had one option. They've said that everyone has at least two choices now, but we don't know if that was always the case before Iron bull's cinematics were expanded.
Actually, you do. Iron Bull was revealed as bisexual before his race-gating was removed. Also, it's irrelevant. Sexyback isn't "racegated" anymore, so worrying about what once was but no longer is makes as much sense as continuing to complain that Sexyback is racegated (which I know you're not doing but I'm using that as an analogy to make the point).
Uh, is the new term for straight/gay/lesbian characters now "gender-gated" characters?
I blame myself. In an earlier post I bemoaned the silliness of the word "racegated" and thought, without intending it to be a suggestion, what next? Gendergated? It'd be as equally stupid and silly.
Lo and behold...
Therefore I had no romance option in DAO, since it was possible to miss Leliana, and even if not, being forced to kill her later. So she was extra, wasn't available to all players of my demographic. And probably the same will be true for Sera, so I'm apparently getting only one valid option, so according to your own reasoning, there's no choice for me at all.
Uh, no. Leliana's romance was no more an "extra", as in an afterthought, than Morrigan, Alistair, or Zevran. By your own logic, no one was represented or even "available at all" because it's possible to miss or ignore everyone else's romances too.
Please, explain how Leliana is "not available at all" to players who want to play as a lesbian character when many, many players have in fact played as a female character who romanced Leliana? Or does Leliana not "count" because she was bisexual? In other words, a bisexual woman and gay woman do not have a "true" or "real" lesbian romance because one of them isn't gay? Oh, that's an implication that'll go over well. Unless what you mean that you want a female character who is gay and not bi? OK, that's different, because Leliana does represent a bi character and not a gay one. That's true. But what you say isn't very clear on whether you think a female-female romance isn't represented or a gay female character isn't represented.
But I will say this: not everyone was "forced" to kill Leliana later. Killing her only happened if you brought her along to the Urn of Sacred Ashes and couldn't inimidate her into standing down. And no one is forcing you to desecrate the ashes or bring Leliana along when you do.
How and why Sera is now "hidden" or "not available at all" to you is a train of logic I don't follow. Especially because the game hasn't been released yet and therefore it's a game you have not played.
If it matters, David Gaider has made it clear that advisors are not "extras" or lesser in content than companion romances, as was the concern about Traynor. Speaking of...
I thought they did great with Traynor. :/ She was sexy and not slutty; smart but not conceited; and she had weird little quirks and flaws that made her seem real to me. I personally don't see what they did wrong with it.
You could say much the same thing about Isabela, too. Although Isabela was bisexual, not gay. Although I can't say how in-depth it was or was not, since I have not romanced her.
This.
And what Maria & Bluenoodle said.
I'm also in agreement with Maria Caliban and Bluenoodle that Bioware has not betrayed anyone. Yet! dun dun dun...
but why do it always have to be the straight gamers who get more romances?
At the present moment, straight gamers don't have more options in DAI. We haven't seen the last two options yet, so you're assuming one or both will be exclusive to straight gamers. We don't know who the last two LIs are yet, so all this worrying and "sky is falling" nonsense is just that: fear that this ambiguity might be something but we don't know it's something yet so we'll read into it what we worry about it in order to make it something.
If the concern is about representation, then, so far, it's equal. How or if the last two options will "tip" the balance one way or another, none of us except the developers know. So saying that straight male gamers will get the last two romances is making an assumption, not stating a fact.
I'd also say that nothing David Gaider said implicitly or explicitly tells us how to predict who the last two romance options will be. But this is the Bioware forums, taking what Gaider says to mean whatever one wants it to mean is a time-honored tradition. 
However, to be fair, you are right that DA hasn't always given as many options to gay characters as bi or straight ones. In Origins, in what may seem like a contradiction above, a gay female had Leliana and a gay male had Zevran, while a straight male had Leliana or Morrigan and a straight female had Zevran and Alistair.
Bioware's track record hasn't been perfect. But between ME3 and now DAI they are doing substantially better as far as representation goes. And I say that knowing that I don't know who that last two LIs are.
Moreover, if you haven't noticed, there are straight male gamers who object to anyone being gay at all, let alone having to *gasp* interact with a character who's gay.
The Powers That Be have already made it clear that they don't care. Two vs any amount higher than two has the official Biower seal of fairness.
Speaking of taking GaIder's words out of context, no. That's not what he said or implied. Stop confusing people who haven't read his posts.
So ? The fact is it could happen since it's okay. So they are allowed to talk about it.
Could happen. But it hasn't yet and might not. Yes, you are free to voice your opinion that it will happen. But that doesn't mean others are not also free to say that you're speaking in assumptions and opinions, not facts.
Nope, they shouldn't hope for anything. They should only tell to themself that what they believed about Bioware and fairness wasn't at all what they thought. It's annoying but it's what will make them stronger for the future. They will be ready for unequal options.
If everything is equal in the end for DA:I, then good for them. But they should never forget at the same time.
Never forget what? That some, but not all, of us here can make assumptions and treat those assumptions as facts until proven otherwise? That patience and acknowleding that one doesn't know until one knows are not virtues? To remember that you worried needlessly and pointlessly for weeks when perhaps you didn't need to worry at all?
You also assume that you speak for everyone who is gay or bi or who will play gay or bi Inquisitors. You are not anyone's ambassador. Stop that.
Moreover, do you even care about representation?
I ask because here is how representation was once explained to me (the author will remain anonymous): The difference is that there have been literally thousands upon thousands of different straight characters in video games which have showcased almost every type of person from every type of background you could imagine in almost 40 years of gaming. Compare this to a few dozen (certainly less than 100 and far fewer main) queer characters and you can understand why queer gamers latch on to them and invest their hopes and dreams in them so that they may finally get to play their "perfect" character. It's a tall order for any developer to fill. All they can do is try to write the best characters they can and hope they resonate with the community.
And right now, as it stands, DAI is more diverse and representative than any DA or Bioware game before it. If you want to argue that two for all isn't enough or that it'll still be under-represented if the last two LIs don't make the split 3 for men and 3 for women, then that's one thing. But for you, not knowing is the same thing as knowing what will be--as if Gaider's posts prove that Bioware does not care about representation, that David Gaider does not care about representation, and that anyone who disagrees with you and is not filled with hate over a possibility that might not even be true must also not care about representation. It seems to me that you just want to be angry for the sake of being angry and then never letting go of that anger, even if such anger is proven to be utterly meaningless.
Again, how does Bioware not care about representation or fairness? How has Bioware been exactly like the norm among game developers with regards to excluding gay people and never tried to be different?
You say, "You should be grateful, you have two options", but that assumes you won't have more than two. At the moment, straights, gays, and bisexuals all have an equal number of LIs representing their sexual orientation. Do you mean two is underrepresented or that gay people are getting short-changed by only having two? Or are you, like others, assuming that what Gaider said implies that no more gay or bi characters will be respresented--in the LIs at least? My impression from your posts is that the answer to the last question is, "Yes."
If the last two LIs are straight, then I will be in here supporting your demand for more. However, you act as if because we don't know who the last two LIs are, we must give up all hope and dwell in hate for Bioware.
- SofaJockey aime ceci
#18543
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 05:42
Nocte ad Mortem
-
- Members
- 5 136 messages
Speaking of taking GaIder's words out of context, no. That's not what he said or implied. Stop confusing people who haven't read his posts.
Do explain what he actually meant, then, because I know literally no other way to take it. He says they set a minimum limit at 2 and anything that goes beyond 2 is fine with them as an imbalance. How is that out of context? What other way should I take it?
From his posts;
"From our perspective, every gender and preference of player gets at least two options from which to choose--as many as DA2. That's as far as our obligation takes us."
"So long as you have some actual choice, and at least some of that is content that was specifically written with you in mind, I don't think you get to claim to be an afterthought. Anything that goes beyond that, insofar as who gets 2 or 3 or 4 or whatever number of choices, isn't really relevant--at least, not to us. That's not something we set out for ourselves as a requirement going in."
#18544
Guest_Luther_*
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 05:54
Guest_Luther_*
Guest_Luther_*
-
- Guests
Do explain what he actually meant, then, because I know literally no other way to take it. He says they set a minimum limit at 2 and anything that goes beyond 2 is fine with them as an imbalance. How is that out of context? What other way should I take it?
From his posts;
"From our perspective, every gender and preference of player gets at least two options from which to choose--as many as DA2. That's as far as our obligation takes us."
"So long as you have some actual choice, and at least some of that is content that was specifically written with you in mind, I don't think you get to claim to be an afterthought. Anything that goes beyond that, insofar as who gets 2 or 3 or 4 or whatever number of choices, isn't really relevant--at least, not to us. That's not something we set out for ourselves as a requirement going in."
And that proves that the last two choices will be straight only romances? Or bi? Or gay? I'll grant you that he said it "isn't really relevant". However, to declare that 2 is the "official seal of fairness" is wrong. He clearly says that Bioware's, or at least his, obligation is for at least two (and for all we know he may mean that they don't see the need for more than 6 romances but came up with eight for DAI--but that no doubt didn't occur to you or others) and that it may be 2 or 3 or 4. And to take all of that to mean there will be an imbalance or how that imbalance will look like is making an assumption, not stating a fact.
Edit: the "2 for all" or "2 is our requirement" could refer to DA2 as well, where the was only 4 romance options and 2 for gay male Hawkes, 2 for gay female Hawkes, 2 for straight male Hawkes, and 2 for straight female Hawkes. That's another way of understanding what David Gaider meant.
And here's another post right back at you:
I'm not sure why you would assume that's the case.
Either way, I'm not suggesting you should be happy if you don't get the same number of options as someone else-- "be glad for what you get and shut up already" sort of thing. It'd be nice if we received the benefit of the doubt, or at least waited until they knew whether there was actual cause for alarm, but either way I've stated what our priorities are. Ultimately, we've set out first to write stories that we were interested in writing, and to give players of all genders and preferences some choices and content specifically with them in mind. There's no way to please everyone, but I guess we'll see how it plays out.
In other words, you're finding cause for alarm without having good cause or reason.
But by all means, keep assuming that opinion equals fact and that Gaider's words prove something one way or the other about the remaining LIs.
#18545
Guest_Magick_*
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 05:59
Guest_Magick_*
Guest_Magick_*
-
- Guests
Will there ever be any androgynous or feminine males to romance?
- yearnfully aime ceci
#18546
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 06:00
Nocte ad Mortem
-
- Members
- 5 136 messages
But by all means, keep assuming that opinion equals fact and that Gaider's words prove something one way or the other about the remaining LIs.
I think you misunderstood my post, so I'm just going to cut to this. Sandal said he would rage if the last two options weren't bisexual. I replied that they wouldn't care because Gaider just said their obligation is only to offer 2 options. I've never said in any post that I thought what he said was evidence that the last two options will be heterosexuals.
#18547
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 06:01
Lee80
-
- Members
- 2 350 messages
Will there ever be any androgynous or feminine males to romance?
Zeveran doesn't count? He always came across as androgynous to me. The long hair, the overly suave attitude... Could be just me though..
#18548
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 06:03
Nocte ad Mortem
-
- Members
- 5 136 messages
I don't see Zevran as androgynous. He seems very obviously male, to me.
- yearnfully aime ceci
#18549
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 06:10
Lee80
-
- Members
- 2 350 messages
I don't see Zevran as androgynous. He seems very obviously male, to me.
You don't have to have a mystery gender to posses both feminine and masculine qualities. Which in my opinion he has both. It's not a judgement of negativity, in fact I feel that people who aren't tapped into both sides are not as well rounded individuals-as both sides have value.
- Lilium aime ceci
#18550
Posté 22 juillet 2014 - 06:17
Nocte ad Mortem
-
- Members
- 5 136 messages
You don't have to have a mystery gender to posses both feminine and masculine qualities. Which in my opinion he has both. It's not a judgement of negativity, in fact I feel that people who aren't tapped into both sides are not as well rounded individuals-as both sides have value.
Well, I agree that Zevran is less masculine than the average male in Dragon Age, but I think the average for masculinity is pretty high in this series. I wouldn't think his character would be seen as particularly feminine in an average fantasy blockbuster. I'm not saying it's bad to be so, I would love to see some less masculine male LIs. To me, though, Zevran seems like your average smooth talking rogue type. I don't think he pushes gender roles too far. That's just my opinion, though.
