19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Chernaya]

He says it's possible, just highly unlikely for two wardens  to produce a child. I think the possibility comes from the fact that both he and the warden are young and newly recruited though, so as time goes on it probably eventually gets impossible.

[Basement Cat]

He says it's possible, just highly unlikely for two wardens  to produce a child. I think the possibility comes from the fact that both he and the warden are young and newly recruited though, so as time goes on it probably eventually gets impossible.

Actually, I think it would be the reverse. The stronger the taint, the less likely you are to have a child.

[Ryzaki]

I remember distinctly that Alistair says it's not certain we can't have children together when we are married...in fact he says that if we don't it certainly won't be for a lack of trying *snickers like a grade schooler*...we are both very early in our grey wardening, so there is that hope

 

He said it was unlikely and I remember it being confirmed by Gaider that two wardens are a complete no go for kids. I'll see if I can find it.

 

"A Grey Warden can have a child...just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen...and the child is not tainted in any fashion."

 

According to the wiki I need to find the source now.

 

Aww the link just takes me to the front page of this site. CURSE YOU LINKS.

[pallascedar]

True but acting like it was a complete great option is where I go "meh". Was it better than what other people got? Some yeah. But it sucked in certain ways too (as straight female romances sometimes (often is unfair) suck cause we get the "special" **** thrown in).

 

I hate the last part of his romance so much I switched to romancing Leliana out of distaste.

 

I think what it comes down to is that the argument is often framed as a problem that only straight women had to deal with, when I would frame the argument that it's something that only Alistair romancers have to deal with. Lots of gay men would have loved to have had to deal with those problems. It makes sympathizing more difficult.

 

And I guess there's some lack of sensitivity with women's issues here: as a gay man I've pretty much accepted that any romance that I take part in, be it in real life or a video game will inevitably result it no biological children. So it makes it more difficult for me to sympathize with women who have to deal with this issues solely within the confines of one video game.

 

I agree, the issue wasn't handled very tactfully, but it's worth pointing out that Alistair doesn't handle anything with a great deal of tact. As far as the dark ritual goes I guess it would have been nice if they had let female wardens engage in magical lesbian baby-making sex to avoid the problem of making Alistair do it, but I don't see how that's actually that much less problematic for someone in a romance with Alistair.

 

I also don't really get the idea that you had to jump through hoops to make the romance work. I did the Alistair romance second, and I thought it was fairly obvious that Alistair wouldn't be able to keep an elven queen, so I just didn't make him King. (He also never wants to be made King, so it seemed like the romantic thing to do.) I also knew as a player that someone would need to do the dark ritual if I wanted to have a happy ending with my romance. I didn't do it, because that warden didn't like Morrigan, but as a player I knew what the consequences would be.

[Chernaya]

He said it was unlikely and I remember it being confirmed by Gaider that two wardens are a complete no go for kids. I'll see if I can find it.

 

"A Grey Warden can have a child...just not with another Grey Warden. So in the case of Alistair being married to a female PC the only possible result is no heir (unless Alistair has a child with someone other than his wife, I suppose). Grey Wardens have a limited chance of conception with a non-Grey Warden, but it does happen...and the child is not tainted in any fashion."

 

According to the wiki I need to find the source now.

 

Aww the link just takes me to the front page of this site. CURSE YOU LINKS.

 

Interesting! Makes sense, I suppose Alistair was just hopeful. That's too bad for my Cousland though. 

[jtav]

It's more that the Alistair romance and that romance alone requires a very specific decision set to have a happy ending. The better comparison is to Morrigan, where the Witch Hunt DLC allows for a happy ending regardless of previous choice. I don't think it's a terribly useful argument regarding whether straight women or gay men got better options. I do think it's a good argument when people complain about their LI not being plot important.

[Freedheart]

@ Ryzaki, I get what you're saying...the point I'm making is that in the *game* (where there is no twitter or David Gaider to harsh my buzz) there is still hope.  What we learn later has little bearing on the fact that Alistair and his HN Queen have that hope.  That was happy making for me...

 

Just as, I am currently doing another play through and my HN rogue is romancing Morrigan.  I have *never* romanced her - bedded her, yeah but ended up with Zevran - even though outside of the game I know she will leave me.  Does that stop me from romancing her in the game? Hell no, because I'm not playing as Freedheart the all-knowing, but as Flynn...the slightly jerky and selfish, and sadly, ignorant guy who is about to get his heart broken.  Knowing the outcome doesn't change the experience for me, because I haven't had it before, just read about it.

[Ryzaki]

I think what it comes down to is that the argument is often framed as a problem that only straight women had to deal with, when I would frame the argument that it's something that only Alistair romancers have to deal with. Lots of gay men would have loved to have had to deal with those problems. It makes sympathizing more difficult.

 

And I guess there's some lack of sensitivity with women's issues here: as a gay man I've pretty much accepted that any romance that I take part in, be it in real life or a video game will inevitably result it no biological children. So it makes it more difficult for me to sympathize with women who have to deal with this issues solely within the confines of one video game.

 

I agree, the issue wasn't handled very tactfully, but it's worth pointing out that Alistair doesn't handle anything with a great deal of tact. As far as the dark ritual goes I guess it would have been nice if they had let female wardens engage in magical lesbian baby-making sex to avoid the problem of making Alistair do it, but I don't see how that's actually that much less problematic for someone in a romance with Alistair.

 

I also don't really get the idea that you had to jump through hoops to make the romance work. I did the Alistair romance second, and I thought it was fairly obvious that Alistair wouldn't be able to keep an elven queen, so I just didn't make him King. (He also never wants to be made King, so it seemed like the romantic thing to do.) I also knew as a player that someone would need to do the dark ritual if I wanted to have a happy ending with my romance. I didn't do it, because that warden didn't like Morrigan, but as a player I knew what the consequences would be.

 

Alistair could only be romanced in a f/m romance is why it's framed this way. But to be fair I'll clarify it as something special to the Alistair romance.

 

That's understandable it's part of the reason I don't think I'll do a Dorianmance. Oh I know he doesn't. But there's absolutely no reason why the female PC's taint is brought up in the discussion of an heir but the male Warden is completely left alone. Despite them both having the same issue. And the DR just serves to hammer it in more. The lesbomancy solution would've been nice but you're right it's not that much less problematic. (Thought it does avoid the she can give him a kid that you can't bit and did honestly bother me a bit).

 

I guess if you don't get it you don't. I'm not sure how to explain it any better than I have. Only Alistair and Morrigan's romances require you do the DR for a happy ending of course. I got a HEA for Leli and Zev just fine with the Redeemer or WC endings. And yeah I know what I have to do to get the HEA ending that doesn't really change the multiple hoop jumping as a requirement.

[Ryzaki]

Interesting! Makes sense, I suppose Alistair was just hopeful. That's too bad for my Cousland though. 

 

Yeah.

 

Welp that's another reason my Leliana mances rock. My poor Cousland's brain might explode if she realized she was preggers XD

 

 

@ Ryzaki, I get what you're saying...the point I'm making is that in the *game* (where there is no twitter or David Gaider to harsh my buzz) there is still hope.  What we learn later has little bearing on the fact that Alistair and his HN Queen have that hope.  That was happy making for me...

 

Just as, I am currently doing another play through and my HN rogue is romancing Morrigan.  I have *never* romanced her - bedded her, yeah but ended up with Zevran - even though outside of the game I know she will leave me.  Does that stop me from romancing her in the game? Hell no, because I'm not playing as Freedheart the all-knowing, but as Flynn...the slightly jerky and selfish, and sadly, ignorant guy who is about to get his heart broken.  Knowing the outcome doesn't change the experience for me, because I haven't had it before, just read about it.

 

Aaah.

 

Um...except you can just do witchhunt and go through the Eluvian with her. She leaves you but it's not permanent.

[Freedheart]

But Flynn won't know that at the end of DAO, will he?

[Former_Fiend]

I believe Gaider has said that Alistair's information regarding the taint isn't necessarily 100% set in stone gospel truth.

[Ryzaki]

True. XD

 

I can't help it. I'm a metagamer. I think of the story I want to tell from beginning to end first then craft my PC's reactions around that.

[pallascedar]

Alistair could only be romanced in a f/m romance is why it's framed this way. But to be fair I'll clarify it as something special to the Alistair romance.

 

That's understandable it's part of the reason I don't think I'll do a Dorianmance. Oh I know he doesn't. But there's absolutely no reason why the female PC's taint is brought up in the discussion of an heir but the male Warden is completely left alone. Despite them both having the same issue. And the DR just serves to hammer it in more. The lesbomancy solution would've been nice but you're right it's not that much less problematic. (Thought it does avoid the she can give him a kid that you can't bit and did honestly bother me a bit).

 

I guess if you don't get it you don't. I'm not sure how to explain it any better than I have. Only Alistair and Morrigan's romances require you do the DR for a happy ending of course. I got a HEA for Leli and Zev just fine with the Redeemer or WC endings. And yeah I know what I have to do to get the HEA ending that doesn't really change the multiple hoop jumping as a requirement.

 

I definitely understand if your chief problem is the inconsistency with which the taint issue was that it was addressed unfairly in that female wardens had to hear about it while male wardens didn't.

 

Though, it's worth pointing out that Morrigan's pregnancies are likely magical in nature, and that Anora likely doesn't care about fertility (she's marrying you for political reasons: and she'd rather be a barren queen than deposed with lots of children.)

[Ryzaki]

I definitely understand if your chief problem is the inconsistency with which the taint issue was that it was addressed unfairly in that female wardens had to hear about it while male wardens didn't.

 

Though, it's worth pointing out that Morrigan's pregnancies are likely magical in nature, and that Anora likely doesn't care about fertility (she's marrying you for political reasons: and she'd rather be a barren queen than deposed with lots of children.)

 

Part of it yep.

 

Still you'd think someone would bring it up. (Hell I don't even think Loghain brings it up in Awakening if you marry Anora and as a GW you'd think he'd at least mention something).

[javeart]

I do agree about Alistair's romance interfering very badly with the two main decisions you have to make at the end of the game. I honestly can't help to think that the main plot was build with a male PC in mind. It might not be the case, but that's the impression I always got. I hate the fact that as female PC your only option for the DR is to ask for your boyfriend/male friend's penis help. And to top it all of you have to feel bad to persuade him (I do feel bad about it, at least) because he really doesn't want to.

 

I think too that it might be the most difficult of them all to get a happy ending, because you get very little hints (if any) about how your choices are affecting your chances. To some extent you could say that the outcome of your choices it's  even a little counter intuitive, in a way Morrigan romance it's not. I mean,

- if you romance Morrigan, it seems natural to trust her and do the DR, and doing so she doesn't leave you inmediately (ok, she leaves anyway, but you have the DLC, and a lot of "I will find you" dialogue choices that gives you plenty of signs that there's still hope).

- On the other hand, if you romance Alistair it's quite natural to feel inclined to make him king, and that's what makes him to break up with you, unless you, for some reason, instead of conforting him when he feels bad about what happens with his sister, choose to tell him "we're all alone", which again, doesn't feel like a very natural answer to someone you love in a situation like that (at least not to me).

 

I understand that all of this is debatable, I know already the main arguments agains it, but I still see it this way

 

Most importantly, though, maybe the "it is only limited to this one straight female romance" it's not to best way to put it, and I understand that I can feel unfair to people with biggest issues, but I think we all now that when a straightt women says something like that it's usually compairing her situation with straight men options, not with gay options, and I'm sure the original poster didn't mean to say that straight women had it better than gay men or gay women. 

[Grieving Natashina]

I believe Gaider has said that Alistair's information regarding the taint isn't necessarily 100% set in stone gospel truth.

And that he prefers it that way too.  

 

For the newcomers to the forums, there is all sorts of lore goodies to be found here:

 

http://swooping-is-b...om/1286233.html

[Maria Caliban]

I do think it's a good argument when people complain about their LI not being plot important.

I don't.

[Ryzaki]

Most importantly, though, maybe the "it is only limited to this one straight female romance" it's not to best way to put it, and I understand that I can feel unfair to people with biggest issues, but I think we all now that when a straightt women says something like that it's usually compairing her situation with straight men options, not with gay options, and I'm sure the original poster didn't mean to say that straight women had it better than gay men or gay women. 

 

Exactly. It's simply an example of how f/m options have "extra" stuff like Jacob cheating, Thane dying (idiotically but this at least was vastly foreshadowed), Carth Syndrome (though to be fair Jaheria had it first, it's more of a occurrence with female options), Amoedouche and his overly touchy self, Carth unlike Bastila had to be romanced by someone who was LS or you had to kill him in the end, Sky's CF ending pretty much suggests that you have to sleep with him to keep him evil while the m/m variation doesn't suggest the sort. Stuff like that just adds up and bothers the hell out of me.

 

I believe Gaider has said that Alistair's information regarding the taint isn't necessarily 100% set in stone gospel truth.

 

Oh I know. But Gaider clarified the whole Warden + Warden = no babies thing. That wasn't Alistair. Alistair simply said difficult. Gaider clarified that to impossible.

[The Elder King]

I understand why some people would care about their LI not being plot important, but personally I couldn't care less.

[javeart]

Exactly. It's simply an example of how f/m options have "extra" stuff like Jacob cheating, Thane dying (idiotically but this at least was vastly foreshadowed), Carth Syndrome (though to be fair Jaheria had it first, it's more of a occurrence with female options), Amoedouche and his overly touchy self, Carth unlike Bastila had to be romanced by someone who was LS or you had to kill him in the end, Sky's CF ending pretty much suggests that you have to sleep with him to keep him evil while the m/m variation doesn't suggest the sort. Stuff like that just adds up and bothers the hell out of me.

 

 

Way too much of things like that, definetely  :lol:It's true, however, that most of that comes from other games, not from DA... but we just got used to expect the worst  in this regard when it comes to BW games, I guess 

[HuldraDancer]

'Plot important' or not I just want the LIs to have the same amount of care and writing put into their romances.

[Ryzaki]

Way too much of things like that, definetely  :lol:It's true, however, that most of that comes from other games, not from DA... but we just got used to expect the worst  in this regard when it comes to BW games, I guess 

 

Yep. If Cullen's gender restricted and race restricted and has some BS happen in the plot that you pretty much have to pull matrix fighting moves to avoid the "I don't know what I expected." gif is pretty much gonna be reaction.

[SofaJockey]

I guess the release date's been pushed back.  I can live with that.  When are they going to reveal the last 2?

 

Pushing back the release date by 42 days

pushes back the LI reveal date by 42 days

 

 

[sandalisthemaker]

Hopefully something good will come out of the push-back.  Like the removal of that pesky race-gating for "story reasons" and ensuring that the remaining LIs are indeed bisexual.

 

However, I am actually expecting content in general, not just romances, to be cut as they frantically try to meet the new deadline.  

[Maria Caliban]

It's probably just bug fixing.