19658 réponses à ce sujet

[AkiKishi]

 I think the 2/2/2 split is quite enough, anymore than that and it's getting too much.

 

How does that break down?

[godModeAlpha]

I never bother getting with anyone in Skyrim, just because there's no motivation to. It doesn't change anything or add anything to the story. It's just boring and I'd rather be off in a dungeon, which at least seems productive and might lead to something interesting.

Getting with someone in Skyrim added more fun to the role playing aspect. I liked coming home after raiding dungeons with my spouse, and giving the kids gifts.

[AkiKishi]

Getting with someone in Skyrim added more fun to the role playing aspect. I liked coming home after raiding dungeons with my spouse, and giving the kids gifts.

 

Congratulations, you just made a world of epic wonder sound like a day at the office

[Syledir]

Bisexual NPCs do not represent the entirety of the LGBT community.  

 

A lesbian companion is confirmed, whether it's something you're comfortable with or not.  Not a NPC, not a background character.  Not a bisexual.  You know, lesbian.  Like what the first letter of LGBT stands for.  Oh and in case you're wondering?  DG said he's going to try to get the character Mae from the comics into the games.  Who's a transgender woman.  Before you claim BW is "catering to another minority," he wants to do it because she's a wonderful character and those in and out of the trans community largely love her.

 

By the way, staying on the forums and trying to convince this falsehood to BioWare is a waste of time. 

 

I wish you the best of luck.  You'll need it. 

Gay NPCs do not represent the entirety of the LGBT community either. You know, gay. Like what the second letter of LGBT stands for. Or Bisexual, the third letter in case you're wondering. Or Transgender/Transsexual, which is the fourth letter by the way. What's your point?

 

I, as a person, have no problem with Sera, being a lesbian. Actually, I am quite happy about it. And no, I never said Bioware is catering to another minority. If they want to include Mae, that's great. I don't have a problem with it, aswell. Also, I never said Bioware is catering to another minority, nor is this my opinion. What makes you believe that?

 

However, I know how it feels to be excluded for no good reason. I understand, when people are pissed that Sera isn't romanceable as a male PC. I know, I was pretty pissed about Mass Effect 2. I realized that things aren't right, simply because my demands have been met. Only when they are shared fairly and evenly. Some people bring up realism. Realism is great. It's called real life. I experience sexual bigotry or rascism every day. I don't need to have it in my games aswell. Even if this wasn't the devs intention.

 

Falsehood? What are you talking about? Bioware sometimes does a really good job, offering content for the LGBT player. Like Dragon Age 2. And sometimes they don't. Like Mass Effect 2 or The Old Republic. And everytime a new game has been anounced, people have to tremble in uncertainty. Is there even one LGBT companion? Is there more than one? Which one is it? With a system like Dragon Age 2 no one would have to fear to be excluded. Everyone could play their perfect hero/heroine and romance the companion, they like the most.

 

I like the 2/2/2 system for example. It's a lot better then what they did in Mass Effect 2. But I still prefer the all/bi system. Simply because everyone could take joy in the same experience and no one would feel excluded.

 

My shades look cooler

[Neon Rising Winter]

Congratulations, you just made a world of epic wonder sound like a day at the office

There is no dungeon boss more sneaky, treacherous or hateful than the average external auditor. And they're harder to kill.

[jtav]

My issue is that I as a player am only attracted to men and would prefer to play a woman. Unfortunately, the devs have a history of writing male LIs I want to punch in the jaw. Cullen's not my type, and IB is already getting on my nerves. So, if Dorian's gay and Blackwall's unavailable, any LI choices I make will be a compromise. Either by romancing Cassandra who I'm not physically attracted to but whose personality is closest to what I want, playing a gender I don't want, or both.

[Indoctrination]

What I am saying, however, is that I don't consider this to be "racist" in the same term that the word is used in reality, because it involves fictional groups.  This is largely done to ensure that no one in reality is a member of a said oppressed group.  I am much more okay with elves being oppressed in our game as opposed to black people.  But this isn't even related to romance content at this point.  It's perhaps "racist" within the confines of the game world, but I'm struggling to see how it would make BioWare racist to do stuff like this. 

I can see both sides of the argument here. If BioWare put in a brutally violent rape scene and played it off in the game as business as usual, would you say "I don't see how BioWare is promoting rape" or anything to that tune? Probably not.

 

In your defence, murder is almost universally recognized as the worst crime and BioWare games give us murders by the hundreds without anyone faking horror here on the boards. What it comes down to is personal comfort zones which differ from person to person and differ between consumer and developer. It's unrealistic to expect BioWare's writers to have the exact same personal comfort zones as yourself. While BioWare surely does not condone racism, that's different than condoning the writing of racist characters. The bad guy from Pocahontas was a racist too, but I wouldn't say the guy who wrote him was racist because of that. That's not being fair to anyone.

[Gwydden]

I can see both sides of the argument here. If BioWare put in a brutally violent rape scene and played it off in the game as business as usual, would you say "I don't see how BioWare is promoting rape" or anything to that tune? Probably not.

 

In your defence, murder is almost universally recognized as the worst crime and BioWare games give us murders by the hundreds without anyone faking horror here on the boards. What it comes down to is personal comfort zones which differ from person to person and differ between consumer and developer. It's unrealistic to expect BioWare's writers to have the exact same personal comfort zones as yourself. While BioWare surely does not condone racism, that's different than condoning the writing of racist characters. The bad guy from Pocahontas was a racist too, but I wouldn't say the guy who wrote him was racist because of that. That's not being fair to anyone.

A sizable percentage of women, as well as some men, have been victims of rape or sexual molestation. The chances of someone playing DA having been a victim of murder are slightly lower.

[wright1978]

My issue is that I as a player am only attracted to men and would prefer to play a woman. Unfortunately, the devs have a history of writing male LIs I want to punch in the jaw. Cullen's not my type, and IB is already getting on my nerves. So, if Dorian's gay and Blackwall's unavailable, any LI choices I make will be a compromise. Either by romancing Cassandra who I'm not physically attracted to but whose personality is closest to what I want, playing a gender I don't want, or both.

 

This is why i'm such a fan of the DA2 ambiguous approach where the priority was accessibility. No gating of a character fits with a player's values like behind an arbitrary orientation restriction.

[Indoctrination]

A sizable percentage of women, as well as some men, have been victims of rape or sexual molestation. The chances of someone playing DA having been a victim of murder are slightly lower.

You can change it to attempted murder or violent assault if you'd like. No one complaines about the various beatings in BioWare games despite any number of victims of violence who may be playing. You should like look up a psychology encyclopedia or phobias or something and realize that if something exists, it's probably a "trigger" for someone, somewhere. In fact I distinctly remember a topic from a long, long time ago (and some developers may remember it too) where a player complained that Origins was triggering his powerful arachnophobia every time he was ambushed by giant spiders. If you removed everything that might make -someone- uncomfortabe, you'd have no game, period. Sorry.

 

On a final note, you don't think that the family members of murder victims can't be victimized by murderers too? We're talking permanent, emotional scars here. But murder isn't going anywhere in BioWare games.

[AkiKishi]

You can change it to attempted murder or violent assault if you'd like. No one complaines about the various beatings in BioWare games despite any number of victims of violence who may be playing. You should like look up a psychology encyclopedia or phobias or something and realize that if something exists, it's probably a "trigger" for someone, somewhere. In fact I distinctly remember a topic from a long, long time ago (and some developers may remember it too) where a player complained that Origins was triggering his powerful arachnophobia every time he was ambushed by giant spiders. If you removed everything that might make -someone- uncomfortabe, you'd have no game, period. Sorry.

 

On a final note, you don't think that the family members of murder victims can't be victimized by murderers too? We're talking permanent, emotional scars here. But murder isn't going anywhere in BioWare games.

 

The line seems to be you don't let the player character perpetrate certain acts. Does it make sense ? Probably not. But it seems to be a line that no one is eager to cross. 

 

It's a can of worms that is best left alone.

[Neon Rising Winter]

You can change it to attempted murder or violent assault if you'd like. No one complaines about the various beatings in BioWare games despite any number of victims of violence who may be playing. You should like look up a psychology encyclopedia or phobias or something and realize that if something exists, it's probably a "trigger" for someone, somewhere. In fact I distinctly remember a topic from a long, long time ago (and some developers may remember it too) where a player complained that Origins was triggering his powerful arachnophobia every time he was ambushed by giant spiders. If you removed everything that might make -someone- uncomfortabe, you'd have no game, period. Sorry.

 

On a final note, you don't think that the family members of murder victims can't be victimized by murderers too? We're talking permanent, emotional scars here. But murder isn't going anywhere in BioWare games.

 

You seem to be adopting a variant of the 'if we can't do everything, we can't do anything' fallacy there. It's safe to say the number or people affected, level of reaction, and audience response is not equivalent in all these cases, and to attempt to treat them as such is disingenuous.

[Indoctrination]

You seem to be adopting a variant of the 'if we can't do everything, we can't do anything' fallacy there. It's safe to say the number or people affected, level of reaction, and audience response is not equivalent in all these cases, and to attempt to treat them as such is disingenuous.

No, a fallacy would be "safe to say" which is just poorly veiled code for "I'm making it up as I go along." If anything, you've only reinforced my argument that the issue here is actually about personal comfort zones and that the complaint is that not everyone has the same personal comfort zones as you. No offense to you intended.

[Neon Rising Winter]

No, a fallacy would be "safe to say" which is just poorly veiled code for "I'm making it up as I go along." If anything, you've only reinforced my argument that the issue here is actually about personal comfort zones and that the complaint is that not everyone has the same personal comfort zones as you. No offense to you intended.

Not at all, and no offense taken. However I think it's straightforward to see how you're mistaken. For example the number of people affected by the fear of buttons is less than the number of people affected by the fear of spiders. The number of murders is lower than the number of muggings. People are more uncomfortable about child abuse than they are about common assault. Safe to say was poorly veiled code for 'Too trivial to require links to peer reviewed research'.

[Shark17676]

 I think the 2/2/2 split is quite enough, anymore than that and it's getting too much.

 

I will never understand the "logic" that more options is somehow a bad thing.

[LilyasAvalon]

 I think the 2/2/2 split is quite enough, anymore than that and it's getting too much.

 

ONE CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY ROMANCES!

 

Actually, untrue.

 

2/2/2 Will be fine but I'd love 2/4/2 if possible.

[LilyasAvalon]

I will never understand the "logic" that more options is somehow a bad thing.

 

Okay. Let me put this way. Say you only have enough money to buy 6 items, but you want 10. To afford 10, you have to diminish the value of some or all of your other items.

[SleepyPerson]

ONE CAN NEVER HAVE TOO MANY ROMANCES!

 

Actually, untrue.

 

2/2/2 Will be fine but I'd love 2/4/2 if possible.

 

2/2/2 Would just mean that straight, gay and bi protagonists get the same amount of options as they did in DA2 but I'd really love 2/4/2 too!

[Shark17676]

Okay. Let me put this way. Say you only have enough money to buy 6 items, but you want 10. To afford 10, you have to diminish the value of some or all of your other items.

 

I'm not following you.

 

At all.

 

If I don't have enough money to buy something, I don't "diminish" anything so I can have it...I simply can't buy it.

 

Anyway, this is neither here nor there.  Drop it.  You're not gonna change any of my opinions.

[SnakeCode]

I can see both sides of the argument here. If BioWare put in a brutally violent rape scene and played it off in the game as business as usual, would you say "I don't see how BioWare is promoting rape" or anything to that tune? Probably not.

 

In your defence, murder is almost universally recognized as the worst crime and BioWare games give us murders by the hundreds without anyone faking horror here on the boards. What it comes down to is personal comfort zones which differ from person to person and differ between consumer and developer. It's unrealistic to expect BioWare's writers to have the exact same personal comfort zones as yourself. While BioWare surely does not condone racism, that's different than condoning the writing of racist characters. The bad guy from Pocahontas was a racist too, but I wouldn't say the guy who wrote him was racist because of that. That's not being fair to anyone.

Mel Gibson didn't play the bad guy.  

[venusara]

I'd be fine with 2/2/2 as long as NCP romances aren't included in that count. I feel strongly that real world gender/sexuality combos should get an equal number of companion lis.

[Vapaa]

Okay. Let me put this way. Say you only have enough money to buy 6 items, but you want 10. To afford 10, you have to diminish the value of some or all of your other items.

 

The thing is, there is no maximum amount that could be allocated on a romance, and since we don't know the word budget (and enven if we did, we wouldn't understand what that represents), we can't say if the romances are less or more.

[AkiKishi]

I will never understand the "logic" that more options is somehow a bad thing.

 

Two problems with playersexual characters (well more but I'm only doing 2). 

 

1. It makes the characters sexbots for the player with no preferences or desires of their own. 

2. If a straight person played the game, they would never be aware that gay characters exist and vice versa.