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Still no news, so I figure it's as good as anything to talk about. I noticed the survery got up to 2,200 votes over night and Vivienne climbed out of last place.. by a little.
https://www.surveymo...eegWF76d5eBo%3d
I'm actually kind of surprised it managed to get 2,200+ votes, honestly.
Solas is back in second place. 
That's so awesome!
How disappointing. My Blackwall's now in last place. I guess his fans are more subdued. The spread between the scores has decreased from when I've voted, slightly. Last night it was 9.8 points difference between low and high and now it's 9.2. With no way to prevent multiple votes from different devices/browsers, it's not as if it's anything more than an amusing diversion anyway.
I am sorry, David, but you are the one (one of) to blame for it. You were the one (one of) repeatedly saying "they are not bi" about DA2 characters. Someone even collected your posts about the subject:
http://miricagale.tu...ragon-age-2-was
So, for years you did let us believe in the subjective sexuality of 2 companions in DA2.
David Gaider said
http://forum.bioware.../#entry12540939
1) The companions weren’t all bisexual in DA2. Two of them were. You being able to romance whoever you liked is not the same thing, outside of the idea that in some other reality you’re aware of the possibility that they might romance someone of a different gender.
http://forum.bioware...3#entry12584296
Once again— the romances are *not* “all bisexual”. While some people don’t like subjective sexuality, being aware of the fact some of your love interests could romance someone of the same gender in another game takes a back seat to fairness and fun gameplay.
Thank you sir ! Also those topics weren't the only ones where he said such things for years. I like how what he said in these quotes tells how I was right before in this same topic. Alone against everyone, I was right.
Please no.
Will we get some news today?
Will we get some news today?
If the Marketer is merciful.
Sorry, I don't think I'm down with "accidentally rape someone until they love it."
Is there something wrong with being bi-curious?
There's nothing wrong with an individual person labeling themself "bi-curious" if they so desire, but the word has a history of biphobia (and homophobia) because of the whole "it's just a phase" implication. It'd be great if we could move on from the If It's You, It's Okay and But Not Too Bi tropes, thanks.
If an adult of sound mind consents to sex with me and they're not under duress, that's not rape.
A person does not have to want to have sex to consent to sex. A sexual relationship can be horribly exploitative and even abusive without rape being involved.
My inner Alarms are going crazy. This sounds like a Topic People might tear each other apart about. I suggest stopping talking about it immediately.
If an adult of sound mind consents to sex with me and they're not under duress, that's not rape.
A person does not have to want to have sex to consent to sex. A sexual relationship can be horribly exploitative and even abusive without rape being involved.
If they believe there will be negative consequences to turning down sex with someone, it's difficult to say they've given their consent either though. It's possible that the solicitor is not even aware of the implications of their actions (though one could argue they should've taken their relative statuses into account before soliciting the person in question) and has no intention of coercing/forcing them, but the solicitee won't necessarily know that. It's a complex situation.
There's nothing wrong with an individual person labeling themself "bi-curious" if they so desire, but the word has a history of biphobia (and homophobia) because of the whole "it's just a phase" implication. It'd be great if we could move on from the If It's You, It's Okay and But Not Too Bi tropes, thanks.
I think one good thing about the bisexual romance options in Bioware games is that they don't rely too heavily on this trope:
Silk Fox - bisexual (preference for males?)
Sky - "bicurious"
Liara - bisexual (stupid *monogendered* caveat)
Leliana - bisexual (preference for females?)
Zevran - bisexual (preference for females)
Isabela - bisexual (preference for females?)
Anders - bisexual (pansexual?)
Fenris - bisexual (preference for females?)
Merrill - bisexual (slightly ambiguous)
Kaidan - bisexual (preference for females; possibly bicurious?)
Kelly - pansexual
Allers - ugh.......
I think the only bisexual option who would definitely fall into this trope is Sky. I could see an argument for Kaidan as well. In general, there seems to be a trend towards preferences for females regardless of the LI's gender, I think. But I might be wrong because I haven't romanced most of these ladies, so I'm going off of what people have said here.
ETA: I never played NWN really, but apparently Kaidala (from one of the expansions) was a bisexual romance. Any thoughts on her?
I would rather Bioware just didn't put in romances where consent was at all questionable, if they can at all help it. This is a situation that's definitely questionable, so I'd rather they just avoid it entirely.
How disappointing. My Blackwall's now in last place. I guess his fans are more subdued. The spread between the scores has decreased from when I've voted, slightly. Last night it was 9.8 points difference between low and high and now it's 9.2. With no way to prevent multiple votes from different devices/browsers, it's not as if it's anything more than an amusing diversion anyway.
It is of course a bit of fun, though the ability to vote on multiple devices should in theory apply equally. 2,277 folk voted, more than I expected quite frankly (the poll was my snarky response to a 'my LI is way more popular than your LI' thread, so I thought ok, let's prove it...). That sample size should (if the BioWare forum is representative, and that is an if) be statistically significant to better than 1.5% either way.
This is where we ended up after 24 hrs:
I'll leave the link live for reference: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/daili
and have switched on the ability to change the vote to someone else if we cared to revisit it after reveals.
The serious point from the stats is that for characters we don't yet really know there is actually a really good even spread. Furthermore, as characters such as Blackwall and Vivienne are explained further (they're a bit sketchy still) I could see their preference come up.
It says to me that BioWare have done a really good job of writing a balanced interesting set of characters that different people like.
There were other reasons than romance, but in ME3, 24% romanced Liara and only 1.5% romanced poor Kaiden, so much less even.
http://forum.bioware...re-infographic/
I'm not sure the 24% and 1.5% are romance related. It says "most popular squad members" and EDI and Vega aren't romances, but they're in there. Maybe that's for just plugging them into the party, overall?
There were other reasons than romance, but in ME3, 24% romanced Liara and only 1.5% romanced poor Kaiden, so much less even.
I think that the infographic that you were referring to actually discusses the popularity of the characters as squadmembers, not romances. EDI and Vega are in it. I'm also assuming that Kaidan's low % is due primarily to the bulk of players being straight males, therefore, Ashley is more often chosen to survive Virmire than Kaidan. It looks like he only has a 17% survival rating to the end of ME3 (versus 50-something for Ashley).
ETA: Ninja Morte 
I'm not sure the 24% and 1.5% are romance related. It says "most popular squad members" and EDI and Vega aren't romances, but they're in there. Maybe that's for just plugging them into the party, overall?
Wouldn't that suggest Kaiden's even less romanced than that? I mean, I typically take my LI with me wherever I go, so if only 1.5% of people even bring him along...
EDIT: Of course, I don't actually know how the ME party system works since I haven't played it.
There's nothing wrong with an individual person labeling themself "bi-curious" if they so desire, but the word has a history of biphobia (and homophobia) because of the whole "it's just a phase" implication. It'd be great if we could move on from the If It's You, It's Okay and But Not Too Bi tropes, thanks.
Wouldn't that suggest Kaiden's even less romanced than that? I mean, I typically take my LI with me wherever I go, so if only 1.5% of people even bring him along...
EDIT: Of course, I don't actually know how the ME party system works since I haven't played it.
I would say not necessarily. Tali only got like 5% there and I would be willing to place a high bet she got well above that on the romance statistics.
Wouldn't that suggest Kaiden's even less romanced than that? I mean, I typically take my LI with me wherever I go, so if only 1.5% of people even bring him along...
EDIT: Of course, I don't actually know how the ME party system works since I haven't played it.
I think he's probably got the lowest romance percentage, but I'd suspect that it's more because he and Ashley are mutually exclusive characters. Only one of them can survive the first game. So since Ashley is the "hot human chick" and the game's primary target audience is straight guys, it's not surprising to me that Kaidan rarely makes it off of Virmire alive. I would suspect that most of the playthroughs in ME 3 don't even feature Kaidan. (Side note: If you start the game without an import, can you select if either Kaidan or Ashley survives or does it default to Ashley?)
Add to that the fact that Garrus was a really popular romance for the female players and Steve was a second option for gay male players, and I think that Kaidan didn't have much of a chance, to be honest.
That being said, he remains my favorite romance ever. So great.
I feel this is heading into the same territory a butch lesbians never being allowed because they're a stereotype.
As far as I know, BioWare has had several bisexual characters and has never suggested that bisexuality is a phase. As this hasn't been a problem previously, why put a ban on Varric being bi-curious? 'Please no' doesn't seem like you're willing to entertain the idea, which seems a bit silly.
Do real bisexual people often not take awhile to figure out that they're attracted to men and women?
Agreed. I wouldn't mind a bi-curious male character. As I mentioned above, I think that Sky was really the only one that fits this category and it's been a decade since he was written. Frankly, I find bi-curious guys to be a kind of hot storyline. I know, I know. It's full of icky tropes, but I can't help it. One of my favorite past times is to flirt with straight guys who are comfortable with their sexuality, so it shouldn't be surprising to know that bi-curiosity is a bit of a trigger of mine.......
Did I share too much......
I feel this is heading into the same territory a butch lesbians never being allowed because they're a stereotype.
As far as I know, BioWare has had several bisexual characters and has never suggested that bisexuality is a phase. As this hasn't been a problem previously, why put a ban on Varric being bi-curious? 'Please no' doesn't seem like you're willing to entertain the idea, which seems a bit silly.
I'm not saying BioWare's done it before, but the word itself is loaded. And even though they technically haven't used that exact phrasing, BW has a history of having their bi male LIs show a significant preference for women, which in itself implies that attraction to women is superior to attraction to other men. There are plenty of bi men in the real world who prefer women (and of course, preferences can shift over time), but when they're the only ones given representation, there's clearly a problem.
Do real bisexual people often not take awhile to figure out that they're attracted to men and women?
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. This is kind of irrelevant though.
I'm really tired of male bisexual characters that favor women. I don't want Varric because of that. Sure, bisexuals can have a preference, but the preference so far has always been women and it's been nearly every bisexual male. If they switched it up sometimes, then I wouldn't mind. It's the constant offering of them that's the problem.
Do real bisexual people often not take awhile to figure out that they're attracted to men and women?
This is true, but the age of the character really factors into this. Most bisexual people I know (including myself) took until their late teens / early twenties to really "get" their sexuality, but a 40+ year old like Varric suddenly having an interest in trying a relationship with a man is a bit of a stretch when it comes to believably.
That there is a well known romance novel trope from the 80s that is called "thank you for raping me." The hero captures/rescues/saves the hapless leading lady character, with or without plot moppet younger sibling(s) and eventually ends up just happening to have sex with her. She is unwilling and uncertain, but secretly likes and wants it so they get their happily ever after in the end. No thanks.
I like that Bioware games have an element of morally gray thinking for some stuff, but that's not one I think we need to bring into it.
I think you misunderstood, because you took the exact opposite of what I was trying to describe. The LI in this scenario is not unwilling, uncertain, or secretly enjoying it.
They (either male or female) are willing, are certain, but are most certainly not enjoying it. To the player, it's a rescue romance, but to the LI their perspective is that if they don't go along with it, bad things will happen to them.
I'm really tired of male bisexual characters that favor women. I don't want Varric because of that. Sure, bisexuals can have a preference, but the preference so far has always been women and it's been nearly every bisexual male. If they switched it up sometimes, then I wouldn't mind. It's the constant offering of them that's the problem.
Well, it seems like Iron Bull is pansexual, so that's new for guys (although I guess Anders might also be pansexual). I agree that I'd prefer a guy who has a preference for males for once, but I'd also really like Varric (for who he is, which happens to be a guy who prefers females). I think this one comes down to who you happen to want for the remaining spots.
This is true, but the age of the character really factors into this. I know that myself and several other bisexual people I know took until their mid-late teens/ early twenties to really "get" their sexuality, but a 40+ year old like Varric suddenly having an interest in trying a relationship with a man is a bit harder for me to accept.
You were fortunate to "come of age" in a time where it was "acceptable" to be anything other straight. In different times/places, it's not uncommon for people to not really explore any s/s attraction because of social stigmas. In fact, "late in life" gays and lesbians are pretty common still, where people socialized in the 50's and 60's pursued heterosexual relationships only and late in life, when they are widowed or divorced and often have children already, spend their twilight years with s/s partners. While the stigma of s/s relationships is not overt in Thedas, there is definitely still a bit of a stigma attached to it.
Also, you are assuming that Varric would just be exploring it now. He could have had interest in other guys in the past, but never been interested in pursuing it until he got "over" Bianca (which he would have to do to be a romance, I think). I'd have to see how it's written before I pass judgment.
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