19658 réponses à ce sujet

[Samahl]

Femshep/Iron Bull in ME3

 

um

[Wulfram]

um

 

Means Vega, presumably

[javeart]

For some reasons, I feel lucky just to make a post here. lol

 

I agree that I don't want a power dynamic relationship. We have already seen how creepy it is with Femshep/Iron Bull in ME3. It seem like a very non-consensual relationship. They are likely be with you because of your power or because they are afraid of your power. 

 

I really don't know how could they put that in the game. Why would they do that? I can only imagine someone in the team saying something like "Vega is not an LI because he doesn't like you, but it seems you don't mind that, do you? Well, then, there you go"... So, yes, in my mind, they were basically giving the finger to people asking for a vega romance, and so it will remain until I hear of a better explanation 

[Former_Fiend]

Since we're on the topic of controversial ideas for romance stories, I'll throw one out there, though I don't imagine it will be very popular.

 

How about a romance where the LI is in a committed relationship and is cheating with the PC? We've been able to be unfaithful to our LI's(DAO) and had LI's be unfaithful to us(Jacob), but this isn't a story they've told yet.

[Ianamus]

 

You were fortunate to "come of age" in a time where it was "acceptable" to be anything other straight.  In different times/places, it's not uncommon for people to not really explore any s/s attraction because of social stigmas.  In fact, "late in life" gays and lesbians are pretty common still, where people socialized in the 50's and 60's pursued heterosexual relationships only and late in life, when they are widowed or divorced and often have children already, spend their twilight years with s/s partners.  While the stigma of s/s relationships is not overt in Thedas, there is definitely still a bit of a stigma attached to it. 

 

Also, you are assuming that Varric would just be exploring it now.  He could have had interest in other guys in the past, but never been interested in pursuing it until he got "over" Bianca (which he would have to do to be a romance, I think).  I'd have to see how it's written before I pass judgment. 

 

It's still more acceptable in Thedas than in modern-day real life though, especially for a surface dwarf who cares little for tradition.

 

I'd have no problem with Varric being bisexual if it was written well, but writing a character to be a bisexual Li who has been a companion in a previous game and never expressed any sort of interest in men before is not easy to do right. 

 

Anders for example, was handled poorly. For me it's not so much that he went from never indicating an attraction to men to being a bisexual LI, it's that he went from never indicating an attraction to men to heavy flirting with the male protagonist literally ten minutes after he is introduced to us in DA:2. 

[javeart]

Since we're on the topic of controversial ideas for romance stories, I'll throw one out there, though I don't imagine it will be very popular.

 

How about a romance where the LI is in a committed relationship and is cheating with the PC? We've been able to be unfaithful to our LI's(DAO) and had LI's be unfaithful to us(Jacob), but this isn't a story they've told yet.

 

I'm ok with that, as long as we're talking about a third or fourth LI option, because I feel it would be an option that only a few people would pursue, and it'd be a waste of resources otherwise

[Dean_the_Young]

I've been desperate and dependent before, but never on anyone who seemed threatening. And I don't see why the Inquisitor would necessarily seem threatening unless they behaved that way before.

 

You are a Bioware PC, a great train of devastation and martial ability as dozens are cut down at a time. You are killing political rivals, overthrowing entrenched powers, and upsetting the status quo and remaking it to your liking. You kill people, take their stuff, and call it a Tuesday. You whims are the lives and deaths of countless, enemy and friend alike, and the survival rate of people corresponds directly to how well they avoid your disapproval.

 

You are very threatening to anyone who is both weak and desperate.

 

 

This just feels... still contrived. The only way this would make sense to be is if their backstory included an instance of them being burned by exactly this situation before.

 

This is one of those times in which I am well reminded that your sense of contrivance and reasonableness corresponds more with your inclination to like something than it's actual sensibility.

 

It's a fictional concept. Everything about it, and fiction, is contrived. As for someone feeling desperate enough to consent to unwanted advances because they fear the consequences if they don't, even if coercion wasn't actually intended, you either lead a very charmed or very limited life. It happens.
 

 

I also would prefer it if there were no dialogue options to actually sleep with them until this issue was resolved, because I don't see the need for coercive sex, even unintentionally.

 

Or, alternatively, you could not sleep with them at the earliest opportunity. Which, in this case, would be the first conversation after the rescue in which they are now your glorified house guest/janitor still trying to justify why they would be allowed to stay in the headquarters or group or wherever when they aren't a companion badass or political asset.

 

But no- let's get rid of even the availability of a relationship that might be misconstrued by the participant until the player can not even be capable of even the perception of impropriety.

[CuriousArtemis]

How about a romance where the LI is in a committed relationship and is cheating with the PC? We've been able to be unfaithful to our LI's(DAO) and had LI's be unfaithful to us(Jacob), but this isn't a story they've told yet.

 

This could be cool if the relationship is unhappy, and you encourage the person to leave their partner, so it has a happy ending

[Battlebloodmage]

I really don't know how could they put that in the game. Why would they do that? I can only imagine someone in the team saying something like "Vega is not an LI because he doesn't like you, but it seems you don't mind that, do you? Well, then, there you go"... So, yes, in my mind, they were basically given the finger to people asking for a vega romance, and so it will remain until I hear of a better explanation 

The whole situation is a mess. In order to sleep with him, you need to keep badgering him about it, like no means yes in Shepard's language. Then during one of the conversations, Shepard was asking the poor guy if he were drunk enough. She wants him to not in the right state of mind to sleep with her. It's the very definition of a date rape. I think femShep were given a lot of middle finger during the Citadel, ok, you hate Jacob? There, a slap, you're happy? Thane's dead Want to cry your eyes out instead? You don't want to romance anyone? Yeah, wanna sleep with Javik for no apparent raisin? Want Vega? Don't worry, just make him drunk enough and he's yours. 

[Battlebloodmage]

Since we're on the topic of controversial ideas for romance stories, I'll throw one out there, though I don't imagine it will be very popular.

 

How about a romance where the LI is in a committed relationship and is cheating with the PC? We've been able to be unfaithful to our LI's(DAO) and had LI's be unfaithful to us(Jacob), but this isn't a story they've told yet.

How about a romance with a committed couple? That is what they were gonna do during an interview if they decide to do a polyamory relationship I believe.

 

I don't condone it in a fantasy, but maybe interesting if they do it in the game. I feel like a hypocrite though if I hate Jacob for doing it and I attempt that romance. lol

[Samahl]

@Xilizhra: Imagine if Hawke was given the option to proposition Orana. Think of what it would be like from her perspective. That's sort of what Dean is getting at.

[Battlebloodmage]

@Xilizhra: Imagine if Hawke was given the option to proposition Orana. Think of what it would be like from her perspective. That's sort of what Dean is getting at.

She feels like a Pretty Woman. 

[Battlebloodmage]

This could be cool if the relationship is unhappy, and you encourage the person to leave their partner, so it has a happy ending

It would make a cool villain romance. Like 2 villains are in love but one is in an abusive relationship and you convince that person to leave the romance for you.

[Xilizhra]

You are a Bioware PC, a great train of devastation and martial ability as dozens are cut down at a time. You are killing political rivals, overthrowing entrenched powers, and upsetting the status quo and remaking it to your liking. You kill people, take their stuff, and call it a Tuesday. You whims are the lives and deaths of countless, enemy and friend alike, and the survival rate of people corresponds directly to how well they avoid your disapproval.

 

You are very threatening to anyone who is both weak and desperate.

By "threatening" in this context, I mean "seemingly inclined to lash out at anyone who refuses a proposition."

 

 

Or, alternatively, you could not sleep with them at the earliest opportunity. Which, in this case, would be the first conversation after the rescue in which they are now your glorified house guest/janitor still trying to justify why they would be allowed to stay in the headquarters or group or wherever when they aren't a companion badass or political asset.

 

But no- let's get rid of even the availability of a relationship that might be misconstrued by the participant until the player can not even be capable of even the perception of impropriety.

Quite so. The amount of fan rage from this from people who felt like they'd been tricked into raping someone will be immense, and it wouldn't even be for a reason that'd add much to the game. It wouldn't even help with your larger issue of subordinate romance because it'd be undermined by everyone else's willingness.

 

 

@Xilizhra: Imagine if Hawke was given the option to proposition Orana. Think of what it would be like from her perspective. That's sort of what Dean is getting at.

Which is exactly why Hawke was not given the option to proposition Orana.

[javeart]

The whole situation is a mess. In order to sleep with him, you need to keep badgering him about it, like no means yes in Shepard's language. Then during one of the conversations, Shepard was asking the poor guy if he were drunk enough. She wants him to not in the right state of mind to sleep with her. It's the very definition of a date rape. I think femShep were given a lot of middle finger during the Citadel, ok, you hate Jacob? There, a slap, you're happy? Thane's dead Want to cry your eyes out instead? You don't want to romance anyone? Yeah, wanna sleep with Javik for no apparent raisin? Want Vega? Don't worry, just make him drunk enough and he's yours. 

 Making an unromanced femshep sleep with Javik was really uncalled for... I guess they thought it'd be funny   good thing about having no unromanced femsheps 

[Who Knows]

What they did with straight female Shepard was really weird. On one hand they are pushing you towards sex and flirtation (James & Javik), on the other hand they are pushing you away from romance (James, Jacob, Thane). I feel like this could have been avoided had there been a different situation with the writer team.

[Ryzaki]

 Making an unromanced femshep sleep with Javik was really uncalled for... I guess they thought it'd be funny   good thing about having no unromanced femsheps 

 

it could've been funny had it been obvious Javik was trolling for s****and giggles (nothing actually happened other than him being drunk and seeing empty space in the bed instead of the cold bathroom floor) and he did it to both unromanced Sheps.

[Phate Phoenix]

 Making an unromanced femshep sleep with Javik was really uncalled for... I guess they thought it'd be funny   good thing about having no unromanced femsheps 

 

.... Is... Is there a way to avoid sleeping with Javik, if you have unromanced FemSheps?

 

Wow I am super uncomfortable with this like whoa.

[Battlebloodmage]

What they did with straight female Shepard was really weird. On one hand they are pushing you towards sex and flirtation (James & Javik), on the other hand they are pushing you away from romance (James, Jacob, Thane). I feel like this could have been avoided had there been a different situation with the writer team.

I think the problem is the series catered too much toward straight guy. Look at how long it takes for gay characters to appear in ME3? The very last one with one option being an NPC while the option is exactly like femShep with a lot fewer scenes. Look at how many romances straight males and lesbians have? Considering that they all survive in ME3 and not either die or cheat on you. Somehow, they allow Miranda to survive a Kai Leng's attack but let Thane die. During the citadel, all femShep had are heartache and rejection while maleShep's previous romances have extra extended scenes and allow for a consensual Samara mini romance as well. 

[Samahl]

Yikes, I feel bad for ace femSheps...

[Deviija]

it could've been funny had it been obvious Javik was trolling for s****and giggles (nothing actually happened other than him being drunk and seeing empty space in the bed instead of the cold bathroom floor) and he did it to both unromanced Sheps.

 

Troll Javik is my favorite type of Javik.  

 

Spoiler

 

[Battlebloodmage]

.... Is... Is there a way to avoid sleeping with Javik, if you have unromanced FemSheps?

 

Wow I am super uncomfortable with this like whoa.

You can, by raping Vega... alternatively, just don't invite him to the party, but that would require meta knowledge. Why wouldn't femShep invite Javik to the party?

[Dean_the_Young]

By "threatening" in this context, I mean "seemingly inclined to lash out at anyone who refuses a proposition."

To someone weak and desperate, you may very well be feared to be someone who would do that.

 

And even if the retaliation isn't immediate or direct, the indirect consequences can also be too much to risk. If he (or she) doesn't warm your bed, then there might not be a bed for them- or, when the keep/base/whatever fills up with more useful people more deserving of their own beds, they may be kindly but firmly shown out the door and out to the chaos, even if 'punishment' wasn't the intent.

 

Sleeping with someone for security is a very real thing.

 

 

 

 

Quite so. The amount of fan rage from this from people who felt like they'd been tricked into raping someone will be immense, and it wouldn't even be for a reason that'd add much to the game. It wouldn't even help with your larger issue of subordinate romance because it'd be undermined by everyone else's willingness.

 

People being angry that they abused a position of power and authority in a way they did not intend would be precisely the point. Just as the amount of fan rage from the people who felt angry that Anders used them, or that friend-mancing Fenris was supporting a PSTD victim's phobia, or that sleeping with Tali is deliberatly exposing her to the risk of death before a critical mission for poontang, or that sleeping with Jack from the first opportunity might not be considering the feelings of the person you haven't gotten the chance to know yet. These were all morally contestable things, but also very important to their characters. Jack would not be Jack, and her romance arc would not be the way it is, were she not willing to sleep with Sheaprd outside of an emotional relationship. Her willingness to do so, even if Shepard is a scumbag for doing so, is a defining point of her character.

 

Saying you were somehow 'tricked' into aggressively flirting and bedding them is completely bizaar and misses the point that the player instigates, and is never invited, to any sexual encounter before the trust point. It's an option, in the same way that breaking up is an option.

 

Of course, if we removed all the romance arcs with aspects for fans to rage or feel guilty about or which added a conundrum that different people would feel differently about, we'd be left with... maybe Alistair?

 

 

 

 

Which is exactly why Hawke was not given the option to proposition Orana.

 

*Citation needed.

[Phate Phoenix]

You can, by raping Vega. 

 

UGH THIS IS AWFUL I DIDN'T KNOOOOW THIIIS WHEN IT BOUGHT IT

 

REGRET ALL THE REGRET

[Feybrad]

What they did with straight female Shepard was really weird. On one hand they are pushing you towards sex and flirtation (James & Javik), on the other hand they are pushing you away from romance (James, Jacob, Thane). I feel like this could have been avoided had there been a different situation with the writer team.

 

When I think about it, I feel like they must have thought "every straight femShep is with Garrus anyways, so let's go crazy". Because, I played the Garrus Romance and it was all kinds of awesome. Then I do not hear bad Things about Kaidan in ME3 and everything else seems to have been ... erm... underwhelming.

 

Weird, that's the right Word, yeah.