19659 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Maria is saying that although queer male sexuality is fetishized by straight women, no one would seriously suggest that gay men only exist to cater to the desires of those yaoi-shipping straight women.

There are plenty of people who claim that lesbianism only exists in popular culture to cater to the desires of straight men.

 Maybe I'm tired, but something about this phrasing is confusing me. When you're saying 'in popular culture', do you mean in fictional media or in real life in general?

 

I've never heard of any suggestion that lesbians only started to exist in real life to cater to male desires, but I have heard it in regards to fictional works. But then, there are also plenty of media in which gay men are created for the viewing pleasure of straight women. But I would agree that no one seriously suggests that gay men only exist as a result of yaoi-shipping women.

 

Maybe I've just never heard something the two of you have heard before, or maybe I'm just not seeing the contradition. Or something.

[fiveforchaos]

Spoiler

Gay men aren't used as a sexual tool in media as often as women. Mostly, gay men are totally desexualized in media. The most common use is just the usual quippy, flamboyant Hollywood gay. That's usually in romantic comedies or other genres where he only exists for comic relief. In media where gay men are in sexual situation, which is admittedly extremely rare, it's not all that uncommon for the writers to consider they'll have a large female audience. In the early 2000's US version of Queer As Folk, one of the only gay male focused pieces of media, it's widely believed that they shifted the original British show's focus on the nerdy, more relateable main character to the charismatic ad exec and his very pretty, blond bombshell boyfriend (the basic stoic, reluctant to commit top/cute, persistent bottom dynamic popular in most female oriented gay fiction) because they realized the vast majority of their audience was actually straight females and they didn't want to see ad exec with the nerdy guy.

 

I'm not saying that it's exactly the same as straight men/lesbians, but I think it would be wrong to assume that media with gay males isn't often tailored for women. A huge amount of it is, both the quippy gay men that exist to comically empower female leads and arguably situations like the latter I mentioned.  

I've never seen Queer As Folk, but I can certainly testify as a straight girl that the British version sounds like a much more engaging story than the U.S. version. I'm sorry to hear that a stereotype of what straight girls would want so heavily influenced a piece of media originally meant for gay men

[azarhal]

Gay men aren't used as a sexual tool in media as often as women. Mostly, gay men are totally desexualized in media. The most common use is just the usual quippy, flamboyant Hollywood gay. That's usually in romantic comedies or other genres where he only exists for comic relief. In media where gay men are in sexual situation, which is admittedly extremely rare, it's not all that uncommon for the writers to consider they'll have a large female audience. In the early 2000's US version of Queer As Folk, one of the only gay male focused pieces of media, it's widely believed that they shifted the original British show's focus on the nerdy, more relateable main character to the charismatic ad exec and his very pretty, blond bombshell boyfriend (the basic stoic, reluctant to commit top/cute, persistent bottom dynamic popular in most female oriented gay fiction) because they realized the vast majority of their audience was actually straight females and they didn't want to see ad exec with the nerdy guy.

 

I'm not saying that it's exactly the same as straight men/lesbians, but I think it would be wrong to assume that media with gay males isn't often tailored for women. A huge amount of it is, both the quippy gay men that exist to comically empower female leads and arguably situations like the latter I mentioned.  

 

Like everything else in the world, Japan did it first.

[cjones91]

Like everything else in the world, Japan did it first.

Japan probably popularized anything involving sexuality,Yuri,Yaoi,weird monster romances etc.

 

I think they get bored sometimes though.

[Chron0id]

I am so confused right now.  The differences between a straight woman sexualizing two straight men go at it, as opposed to a gay woman sexualizing two gay men go at it with the power dynamics between a bisexual woman fantasizing about two gay men and something about Japan doing it first and....HUUUUH?

[ClassicBox]

I am so confused right now.  The differences between a straight woman sexualizing two straight men go at it, as opposed to a gay woman sexualizing two gay men go at it with the power dynamics between a bisexual woman fantasizing about two gay men and something about Japan doing it first and....HUUUUH?

Shhhh. It's okay. No one ever understands what is happening in this thread. 

[Kalamah]

I am so confused right now.  The differences between a straight woman sexualizing two straight men go at it, as opposed to a gay woman sexualizing two gay men go at it with the power dynamics between a bisexual woman fantasizing about two gay men and something about Japan doing it first and....HUUUUH?

It can be a bit overwhelming when everyone's coming in with different perspectives and points, yeah.

 

The gist of it is that patriarchy treats female sexuality as a thing for men, even and especially when the participants are only women. This is male gaze, and why lesbians and bi women are pointing out how ME has catered to that in the way they depict f/f romances. It's a thing created for hetero men, as opposed to women who are attracted to women, and it shows in ways we notice. Thus, f/f relationships are reinforced as catering to men primarily, with little thought to how women like it.

 

The reverse of this, where m/m relationships are made for and catered to the female gaze, are not reinforced by patriarchy. Thus there's a distinct lack of power dynamics behind it that would otherwise serve to put men in m/m relationships at a disadvantage wherein their sexuality is performance for (heterosexual) women. It just doesn't happen, and if anything that hypothetical situation where it might is more reclamation than something that is "equally" bad by any stretch.

[pallascedar]

Shhhh. It's okay. No one ever understands what is happening in this thread. 

 

I understand. Desperation is happening.

[Fizzie Panda]

Ughhhh and they STILL haven't revealed the last 2 LI's... I mean they should tell us in return for extending the release date by a month+

[jtav]

Who's being objectified largely depends on where you are. Broader Western culture does objectify lesbians for the benefit of straight men, but that's all reversed when you get into fan culture and m/m romance (a great portion of which is written by women). And yes those gay men are objectified for the benefit of women.

[Cat Lance]

*walks in and sets down nsfw link*

Spoiler

http://officialvarri...not-think-about

I'm just going to leave this right thar, for those old enough to view it.

*ambles back out whistling*

[Xilizhra]

*walks in and sets down nsfw link*

Spoiler

http://officialvarri...not-think-about

I'm just going to leave this right thar, for those old enough to view it.

*ambles back out whistling*

I sort of doubt that Sera would truly appreciate this lasting for hours with no orgasm whatsoever, although I could be wrong.

[LobselVith8]

I sort of doubt that Sera would truly appreciate this lasting for hours with no orgasm whatsoever, although I could be wrong.

 

I doubt most people would appreciate waiting hours for that, but I could be wrong.

[fiveforchaos]

I doubt most people would appreciate waiting hours for that, but I could be wrong.

It sounds like it wouldn't be a bad one time thing... something to do on a lazy saturday. Doesn't sound like something that would be fun to do repetitively though. 

[Former_Fiend]

Obviously none of you are practiced in the tantric arts.

[Xilizhra]

It sounds like it wouldn't be a bad one time thing... something to do on a lazy saturday. Doesn't sound like something that would be fun to do repetitively though. 

Women can easily have multiple orgasms; if it's a lazy Saturday, it'd strike me as better overall to have a series of peaks and valleys, rather than just trying for huge peaks (and there's a certain threshold, at least for me, where sexy becomes annoying).

[Not a Cat Doll]

Sex as a mystical endurance test...it sounds dreary.

[Chron0id]

*slowly backs out of thread*

[cjones91]

*slowly backs out of thread*

You'll get used to it.

[Cat Lance]

You'll get used to it.

I'm just surprised at how everyone latched onto that one little piece. I really expected much more fun things out of that link. lol I figured people's imaginations would use that as a springboard.

[cjones91]

I'm just surprised at how everyone latched onto that one little piece. I really expected much more fun things out of that link. lol I figured people's imaginations would use that as a springboard.

The mind can be a dirty place sometimes,I should know.

[Cat Lance]

The mind can be a dirty place sometimes,I should know.

Yes, I expected more dirtiness, not less. lol

[Magdalena11]

*slowly backs out of thread*

Love how your avatar matches the comment.

[Panda]

I'm in a fanbase that has a lot of yaoi love, whoever finds the anime gets a cookie

 

Free! Iwatobi swim club aka Swimming anime?

[cjones91]

Yes, I expected more dirtiness, not less. lol

Yeah but once someone's imagination starts rolling then it's only a matter of time before there's sex laden discussions.