885 réponses à ce sujet

[RandomGuy96]

I don't remember the exact line, but the turian Primarch says something along the lines of "If we can get krogan troops to Tuchanka, then the turians can devote some forces to help Earth".

 

Uh... how exactly are some krogan infantry going to help against the thousands of fleet-crushing dreadnoughts? On that same token, every line that emphasizes the need for the krogan.

 

Also, pretty much everything Shepard says in the first couple hours of ME1. Special mention goes to the conversations on the Geth War, the Krogan Rebellions, and asari biology. Not only does s/he come across as a douchebag, s/he also appears to be a complete moron. 

 

Others:

 

Upon being asked about the Reapers and what they have to do to beat them: "The only thing we can do: we fight or we die!"  

 

After ruining a businessman's life... though at least this one was intentional: "You refused to testify. Obviously, you hate justice and deserve this." 

 

Talking to Space Joffrey: "Without future, we have no hope. Without hope, we may as well be machines, just programmed to do what we're told". 

 

Campbell: "The Reapers don't have supply lines"

Hackett: "Good work commander. We now have the geth and quarian fleets [...] and the geth are attacking Reaper supply lines". 

 

 

 

Too distant for the bond they're supposed to have.

 

Would "kid" have worked? "You did good, kid" seems like a normal line. 

[Ieldra]

Absolutely. Those lines (and that entire chain of thought) are just completely absurd.

 

Contrary to what George Lucas will tell you, you can use the methods of your enemy and be a cruel bastard without being evil. It's never as simple as so many people believe.

 

What matters is that you win. That you accomplish your goals. It matters not how you get there, only that you do get there.

Forgive me if I disagree, but that's not true in a general sense, and not the point here. In a normal conflict, methods do matter. Even if you're a complete consequentialist, they will influence what people think of you. Concern over the methods used in reaching a goal is always justified.

 

The real stupidity in the Collector Base comments lies in this:

You have the means to capture the HQ of an enemy you know almost nothing about, undamaged. What are you doing with it instead? Of course, blow it up without looking at anything useful it may contain. That makes complete military sense, even more so in a conflict that's anything but normal, where the survival of civilization is threatened. /sarcasm *facepalm*.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

Forgive me if I disagree, but that's not true in a general sense, and not the point here. In a normal conflict, methods do matter. Even if you're a complete consequentialist, they will influence what people think of you. Concern over the methods used in reaching a goal is always justified.

 

I'd say it depends on what your absolute goal is. From my experience, people are often willing to overlook methods when you not only accomplish your goals, but roll on and keep accomplishing more and more. Then there comes a point on Shepard. He's genre-savvy enough to know what he is and that the alliance knows what he is, and that he has a blank check to go to town. Because if they try to stop him, him being genre-savvy that he is, will know that the Reapers will win since he's not fighting. Plus, if he chooses to be a physical god, he can be as much of a consequentialist as he wants with no fear of retribution of any kind.

 

It's a sadistic power fantasy based on a principle that I whole-heartedly agree with.

[ImaginaryMatter]

I don't remember the exact line, but the turian Primarch says something along the lines of "If we can get krogan troops to Tuchanka, then the turians can devote some forces to help Earth".

 

Also, would have retaking Earth done in terms of long term consequences? Wouldn't the Reapers just send even more Reapers to take it back? And what would organics gain from such a risky operation that either way would result in the destruction of so many assets? Hope? Did Hackett read the script ahead of time and knew the Reapers would ultimately move the Citadel to Earth resulting in an ultimate final battle?

[HeadlessLoverbot]

Yeah, the fact that Earth became the focal point at the end does not make sense. From a "we need the dumb action movie fans invested" angle it makes sense. Why would someone not already interested in ME care about the final battle if it's on some alien planet/the Citadel?

[Kel Riever]

Wake up, Shepard.

 

No, no, go back to sleep, and unplug your game.

[Animositisomina]

Not really an absurd statement, but definitely a moment that always struck me as absurd:

 

[Nihlus, aboard the Normandy specifically so that he can observe Shepard in and out of combat]

 

(Arriving at Eden Prime)

 

Jenkins: Nihlus? You're coming with us?

Nihlus: I move faster on my own.

 

That's right. The guy who is there to see how Shepard does in combat so that he can evaluate them for the possibility of becoming a Spectre... will not be anywhere near Shepard for the entirety of the mission.

[Farangbaa]

That's right. The guy who is there to see how Shepard does in combat so that he can evaluate them for the possibility of becoming a Spectre... will not be anywhere near Shepard for the entirety of the mission.

 

Excusable though, as the mission changed well before it even started.

[SporkFu]

Excusable though, as the mission changed well before it even started.

This is a good point. 

 

Also have to consider, that unless they took alternate routes to the dig site, Nihlus left no evidence that he did any fighting on the way to the tram station. He left everything for shep to fight, testing him. If he makes it to the tram station alive, he passes. Of course, it was Nihlus who died... 

[Excella Gionne]

Not really an absurd statement, but definitely a moment that always struck me as absurd:

 

[Nihlus, aboard the Normandy specifically so that he can observe Shepard in and out of combat]

 

(Arriving at Eden Prime)

 

Jenkins: Nihlus? You're coming with us?

Nihlus: I move faster on my own.

 

That's right. The guy who is there to see how Shepard does in combat so that he can evaluate them for the possibility of becoming a Spectre... will not be anywhere near Shepard for the entirety of the mission.

Lol! I thought that was contradicting. He wants to observe, but rather YOLO the entire mission. Sorry, Nihlus, but only if you ducked maybe you would have dodged Saren's bullet. A turian who can't duck isn't a bird. If Nihlus joined us, maybe he'd be in Mass Effect 3. 

[KaiserShep]

"What's so special about these students anyway. Biotically, I mean."

This line of dialogue always bugged me, especially if Shepard is him/herself a biotic. I mean, you don't just send a troubled person to Grissom Academy unless you know something about it. I basically only tell Jack about her new image and ignore the rest of the dialogue options, because it makes Shep look like an ignoramus.

[von uber]

Come to think of it, why didn't they just ask the asari how best to use them in a combat scenario... You'd assume they'd have tried biotic artillery, or is this just another case of humans are special?

[Animositisomina]

Excusable though, as the mission changed well before it even started.

If anything, the fact that the mission changed (and became much more serious) should have been even more reason for Nihlus to observe Shepard. It would have been a perfect opportunity to see what Shepard could do, and to see how Shepard handles pressure (disarming the bombs, for example).

 

He left everything for shep to fight, testing him. If he makes it to the tram station alive, he passes. Of course, it was Nihlus who died... 

Observing Shepard first-hand would've been much more useful than just "oh, you survived! Congrats, bro, you win the Spectre prize!"

[Farangbaa]

If anything, the fact that the mission changed (and became much more serious) should have been even more reason for Nihlus to observe Shepard. It would have been a perfect opportunity to see what Shepard could do, and to see how Shepard handles pressure (disarming the bombs, for example).

 

Yeah, because evaluating the performance of a Spectre candidate takes precedence over securing a Prothean beacon.

 

I think not.

[Animositisomina]

Yeah, because evaluating the performance of a Spectre candidate takes precedence over securing a Prothean beacon.

 

I think not.

Pretty sure it was Shepard that ended up securing the beacon. Nihlus would have probably liked to see that... if only he hadn't run off on his own. Had he stuck with Shepard for the mission, not only would he have likely survived, he would have been able to observe Shepard AND help secure the beacon. I mean, is Nihlus such a bad Spectre that he can't do more than one thing at a time? Observe by being part of the squad and securing the beacon. Why does one have to take precedence over the other when they can both be done?

[Teddie Sage]

Everything the Catalyst said about synthetics and organics not being able to live together when you broke peace between the Geth and the Quarians, that was absurd and bad writing as that part of the game didn't recognize Shepard's efforts at all.

[KaiserShep]

Come to think of it, why didn't they just ask the asari how best to use them in a combat scenario... You'd assume they'd have tried biotic artillery, or is this just another case of humans are special?

You mean teaching biotics? Shepard will point this out in ME1 if you talk to Kaidan about Jump Zero, after he mentions the fact that turians were employed to help with it.

[AlanC9]

Everything the Catalyst said about synthetics and organics not being able to live together when you broke peace between the Geth and the Quarians, that was absurd and bad writing as that part of the game didn't recognize Shepard's efforts at all.

I've always suspected that this was because Bio didn't want Shepard to make an ineffectual argument right at the end of the game. Shepard brings up the geth, and the Catalyst replies that the geth obviously hadn't surpassed organics yet, which is demonstrably true since they would have lost the war without Reaper upgrades. Therefore the geth are not yet the hyper-advanced AIs the Catalyst is concerned with, and the example is irrelevant. Presumably Shepard replies with something along the lines of having faith in the geth's peaceful intent even when they've developed further. Then the Catalyst says "faith is irrelevant" or some such, and we're back where we started.

I agree that for RP purposes something like this should have been in.

[Farangbaa]

Pretty sure it was Shepard that ended up securing the beacon. Nihlus would have probably liked to see that... if only he hadn't run off on his own. Had he stuck with Shepard for the mission, not only would he have likely survived, he would have been able to observe Shepard AND help secure the beacon. I mean, is Nihlus such a bad Spectre that he can't do more than one thing at a time? Observe by being part of the squad and securing the beacon. Why does one have to take precedence over the other when they can both be done?

 

Why hello there, captain Hindsight, how was your day?

 

And how are Coulda, Woulda and Shoulda doing, your trusty sidekicks?

 

[von uber]

You mean teaching biotics? Shepard will point this out in ME1 if you talk to Kaidan about Jump Zero, after he mentions the fact that turians were employed to help with it.

No not the teaching. Using them as biotic artillery or whatever in discrete groups. You'd assume that if it was effective the asari would have regiments of them, and possibly more effectively developed ones at that.

[Hello!I'mTheDoctor]

No not the teaching. Using them as biotic artillery or whatever in discrete groups. You'd assume that if it was effective the asari would have regiments of them, and possibly more effectively developed ones at that.

 

They probably do. And if they don't, it's not the first time that humans came up with idea's for strategy and technology that no other race thought of.

 

Like carriers, or attacking supply lines while bypassing strongholds and fortifications.

[Animositisomina]

Why hello there, captain Hindsight, how was your day?

 

And how are Coulda, Woulda and Shoulda doing, your trusty sidekicks?

A sarcastic post and meme spam... with such strong points as those, yes, I'd say you've clearly won this argument (by apparently having no argument left to make, given what you've resorted to).

 

[AlanC9]

The codex entry makes asari military doctrine sound somewhat non-rational. Perhaps because they've had the turians, etc., to do the heavy lifting for millenia?

OTOH, since biotic capability is required to be a huntress in the first place, perhaps all asari units have organic biotic artillery and there's no such thing as a discrete unit dedicated to that function

[Farangbaa]

A sarcastic post and meme spam... with such strong points as those, yes, I'd say you've clearly won this argument (by apparently having no argument left to make, given what you've resorted to).

 

 

No, your argument is stupid. You're looking at the results and then say what they should've/could've/would've done.

 

Had they have gone together, everybody would've lowered their weapons when running into Saren (you know, fellow Spectre of NIhlus) and everybody would be dead.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Pretty sure it was Shepard that ended up securing the beacon. Nihlus would have probably liked to see that... if only he hadn't run off on his own. Had he stuck with Shepard for the mission, not only would he have likely survived, he would have been able to observe Shepard AND help secure the beacon. I mean, is Nihlus such a bad Spectre that he can't do more than one thing at a time? Observe by being part of the squad and securing the beacon. Why does one have to take precedence over the other when they can both be done?

 

I think it depends on what you mean by observe. Nihlus was maintaining radio contact with Shepard and seemed aware of his general placement (those suits also seem to have recording equipment in them, maybe he would view them afterwards? Or a debrief?), so I think just because he wasn't physically watching Shepard's glistening body mow through things doesn't mean he wasn't observing.

 

Also, if Nihlus was with Shepard I think it's just as likely they all would have been killed.