I always wonderded where the collector insect in the jar (from a collector swarm) came from...
The one Mordin is researching in ME2? Or did Mordin just catch one while Freedom's progress was attacked and every human was abducted? Or did Veetor catch it and put it in a jar en send it (along with the data from his omni-tool) to Cerberus for study?
I always wondered 
Maybe it is not that weird though 
I always wonderded where the collector insect in the jar (from a collector swarm) came from...
The one Mordin is researching in ME2? Or did Mordin just catch one while Freedom's progress was attacked and every human was abducted? Or did Veetor catch it and put it in a jar en send it (along with the data from his omni-tool) to Cerberus for study?I always wondered
Maybe it is not that weird though
Mordin ordered it through the mail, with his ACME company license and twenty-five thousand proofs-of-purchase for Java Joe's Jolt Java Brand Coffee.
Mordin ordered it through the mail, with his ACME company license and twenty-five thousand proofs-of-purchase for Java Joe's Jolt Java Brand Coffee.
haha I knew it, I just knew it
"When fire burns, is it at war? Or is it simply doing what it was created to?"
My GOD I don't even know where to begin in poking holes in this. Millions of years of evolution into becoming a self-aware sentient, thousands of years of social and cultural and technological evolution and society, all culminating in the thinking, rationalizing being that is myself, and all of that somehow doesn't even have the capacity to fathom the sheer idiocy behind the aforementioned line.
But... just... Jeez. Really? Comparing the massive armada of two kilometer long sentient techno-organic super dreadnought immortal AI to a basic chemical reaction is... I mean... Just... I don't even.
And if we ARE going to use that analogy, it STILL doesn't work because we didn't create the Reapers like we would a fire to keep us warm and help us live. A more apt description would be to say that someone else created the fire, then used it to set our house on fire, in which case the proper reaction would be to PUT IT OUT.
Jeeeesus. I can't even. I just can't even.
No, that comparison is plenty sound, people who think otherwise just don't understand the nature of the Reapers (though, ironically, this line was intended for them to make them get it).
It makes no sense because it compares the actions of many many thousands of supposedly sentient beings with a mindless force of nature. The force of nature is simply following physical laws. Sentient beings choose their purpose.
It makes no sense because it compares the actions of many many thousands of supposedly sentient beings with a mindless force of nature. The force of nature is simply following physical laws. Sentient beings choose their purpose.
"Sentient" means "self-aware." It does not mean "autonomous." The Catalyst says he controls the Reapers, and also calls their indoctrination of TIM "control," which would give us a hint about the nature of the Catalyst's control over them (that it is like indoctrination). So, in that sense, no. The Reapers would have no more control over what they "burn" than a fire does. Or a husk. Or Dr. Kenson.
Which simply adds to the nonsense of what we have been told about the Reapers earlier in the trilogy.
"There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension."
"We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness"
But even so, the Catalyst, since it controls the so called "independent, free of all weakness, operating on a level so far above our own they are incomprehensible" Reapers should be "autonomous" enough to not be comparable to an act of nature.
I think those idiotic lines in ME1 are mandatory. Really everyone should pick the Asari reproduction line at least once for lols. Seriously. and the other one "Yeah, the Turians tried to do that to us, too." and several more idiotic cringeworthy lines. It makes some of the more idiotic lines Shepard says later when making some other idiotic choices make more sense. Like when or if she destroys the Collector base "I will not let fear compromise who I am." WTF???
Get over it people. Shepard is a moron.
Take for example in Huerta with Thane - "Let's go some place private."... right ... right in front of everyone is private enough.
Liara: You've gone back to Thane. I'm tired of playing games, Shepard.
Shepard: But...
Liara: Do what you want. I've had enough.
Thane is going to croak. Liara just dumped her because she was too much of a moron not to find a private room, and the SB probably had an agent following Shepard.
Shepard is a moron. Pick the dumb lines.
Which simply adds to the nonsense of what we have been told about the Reapers earlier in the trilogy.
"There is a realm of existence so far beyond your own you cannot even imagine it. I am beyond your comprehension."
"We are each a nation, independent, free of all weakness"
No it doesn't. It's consistent with what we've seen of the indoctrinated, which is what the Catalyst refers to when he says "control." Saren insisted his thoughts were his own and that he was a vision of a future free of weakness and such. TIM similarly believed he was on a progressive path and didn't think he was under their influence. The Catalyst/Reapers relation is simply another link in the chain of their hierarchy.
It's clear that not much of the ending was well thought-out, but I believe the irony at work here was intentional, even the whole point.
But even so, the Catalyst, since it controls the so called "independent, free of all weakness, operating on a level so far above our own they are incomprehensible" Reapers should be "autonomous" enough to not be comparable to an act of nature.
Why should they be? Up to that point, they were good enough to wipe out every galactic civilization almost uncontested. It wasn't broken, so they didn't fix it. And by not giving them any self-control, the Catalyst would not have to worry about them evolving to deviate from their directive.
No it doesn't. It's consistent with what we've seen of the indoctrinated, which is what the Catalyst refers to when he says "control." Saren insisted his thoughts were his own and that he was a vision of a future free of weakness and such. TIM similarly believed he was on a progressive path and didn't think he was under their influence. The Catalyst/Reapers relation is simply another link in the chain of their hierarchy.
It's clear that not much of the ending was well thought-out, but I believe the irony at work here was intentional, even the whole point.
If it was intentional, then why Can't Shepard draw attention to it? Even when the Catalyst claims to be the collective intelligence of the Reapers?
You know for those of us who didn't go "Who cares what happened in a game from nearly a decade ago?"
Why should they be? Up to that point, they were good enough to wipe out every galactic civilization almost uncontested. It wasn't broken, so they didn't fix it. And by not giving them any self-control, the Catalyst would not have to worry about them evolving to deviate from their directive.
I'm not talking about the Reapers here, I'm talking about the Catalyst. Why is it comparing itself simultaneously to a being of such vast intellect that it is to other AIs what Shepard is to an animal, yet as mindless and uncaring as a force of nature
It makes no sense because it compares the actions of many many thousands of supposedly sentient beings with a mindless force of nature. The force of nature is simply following physical laws. Sentient beings choose their purpose.
True ,a more fitting analogy would probably have been:
If a gardener exterminates ants, is it war?
True ,a more fitting analogy would probably have been:
If a gardener exterminates ants, is it war?
Heck, Loki had a better analogy. A more apt one, at least.
"An ant has no quarrel with a boot"
If it was intentional, then why Can't Shepard draw attention to it? Even when the Catalyst claims to be the collective intelligence of the Reapers?
You know for those of us who didn't go "Who cares what happened in a game from nearly a decade ago?"
Draw attention to what, exactly?
I'm not talking about the Reapers here, I'm talking about the Catalyst. Why is it comparing itself simultaneously to a being of such vast intellect that it is to other AIs what Shepard is to an animal, yet as mindless and uncaring as a force of nature
Well, the Reapers are the subject of the analogy, not the Catalyst.
Again, I'm not saying that the Reapers are mindless; they're indeed self-aware and hyper-intelligent. It's free-will that they lack. The Catalyst's wish is their command.
Heck, Loki had a better analogy. A more apt one, at least.
"An ant has no quarrel with a boot"
True ,a more fitting analogy would probably have been:
If a gardener exterminates ants, is it war?
Well, the Reapers are the subject of the analogy, not the Catalyst.
Again, I'm not saying that the Reapers are mindless; they're indeed self-aware and hyper-intelligent. It's free-will that they lack. The Catalyst's wish is their command.
The Catalyst does include himself in the analogy, "When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do? We are no different. Like a cleansing fire we restore balance."
Draw attention to what, exactly?
To the Reapers not having free will, as tehy claimed
Well, the Reapers are the subject of the analogy, not the Catalyst.
Again, I'm not saying that the Reapers are mindless; they're indeed self-aware and hyper-intelligent. It's free-will that they lack. The Catalyst's wish is their command.
Then why can the Catalyst not choose, or change?
If a bunch of gardeners are killing ants, and the ants manage to kill a few gardeners back, it kinda is.
This is the problem I was talking about with the Reapers suddenly moving away from being individuals in ME1 to being a collective in ME2. At some points it's almost like they're Geth and ruled by consensus then in others it's as if they choose to do as they wish then it's back to a consensus and then catalyst controls them all.
If a bunch of gardeners are killing ants, and the ants manage to kill a few gardeners back, it kinda is.
Could happen with sufficently agressive ants and gardeners that were forced into the same kind of villain stupidity than the Reapers.
To the Reapers not having free will, as tehy claimed
Well the answer is obvious. Successful mind-control requires the subjects to believe they are in control of their own actions.
Then why can the Catalyst not choose, or change?
Change what? The Catalyst believed the cycles were necessary up 'til the end of ME3, but then can't activate the Crucible.
Of course, he assumes organics proved smart enough to defeat them and thus invalidated the need for his solution, but it would turn out he assumed incorrectly if Shepard opts to Refuse and so he continues the cycle in that ending.
The Catalyst does include himself in the analogy, "When fire burns, is it at war? Is it in conflict? Or is it simply doing what it was created to do? We are no different. Like a cleansing fire we restore balance."
No, he's referring to the Reapers. He just uses "we" instead of "them" because they are extensions of himself, just like 1000-odd programs are part of Legion and he would never refer to any of them in the third person.
No, he's referring to the Reapers. He just uses "we" instead of "them" because they are extensions of himself, just like 1000-odd programs are part of Legion and he would never refer to any of them in the third person.
Except the Catalyst does sometimes refer to the Reapers as being separate from itself, even using the words like 'they' and 'them' when referring to the Reapers and words like 'me' when referring to itself. Why would it do that in those particular parts of the conversation but not this one?
I think those idiotic lines in ME1 are mandatory. Really everyone should pick the Asari reproduction line at least once for lols. Seriously. and the other one "Yeah, the Turians tried to do that to us, too." and several more idiotic cringeworthy lines. It makes some of the more idiotic lines Shepard says later when making some other idiotic choices make more sense. Like when or if she destroys the Collector base "I will not let fear compromise who I am." WTF???
Hahahaha. I've never destroyed the Collector base, and now even more glad I haven't.
Except the Catalyst does sometimes refer to the Reapers as being separate from itself, even using the words like 'they' and 'them' when referring to the Reapers and words like 'me' when referring to itself. Why would it do that in those particular parts of the conversation but not this one?
Lots of speculation for everyone!
Then why can the Catalyst not choose, or change?
Because despite all his complexity, when you get to the core of what he is, he's just a tool... software... a very advanced Clippy!
That's why he's called "the Catalyst", because he needs an outside force to initialise the change and he cannot do it on his own. He was designed to be used by organics and so that seems to have never changed. He's been waiting a very long time for organics to come up with a new solution to the Cycles and impliment them, using his program to carry out the change. Part of the reason he's likely housed himself in the Citadel (or he is the Citadel) is because as an extragalactic Mass Relay, it's probably got the biggest power source in the galaxy and would been needed to carry out the program. While the Crucible was not of his design, it's basically just a software patch for him and gave him some new parameters to work with (Ctrl-Alt-Del).
So no, I don't think the Catalyst has true free will. He strikes me as just a program that's been stuck on "Continue Cycle? Y/N" for the last couple billion years.
(Of course, even if the people had figured out both the function of the Citadel, the Catalyst and designed their own Crucible, he kind of screwed them over by having the Reapers take the Citadel as the first thing they did in every previous Cycle. While it makes sense to protect himself since he must survive into the next Cycle, it still lowers the odds that any solution would be found. Frankly, the Leviathan was probably right when it called the Catalyst a "fundamentally flawed" creation since the Catalyst seems unaware he's stacking the board against the players every time and then blaming them for losing the game).
In ME2 Arrival:
Dr. Kenson: The Reapers will arrive in two days, regardless of the Relay's status. But at least it'll take them months or years at FTL speeds to reach nearby systems.
I thought wait, so those trips I take between systems in the galaxy map take MONTHS-YEARS? Damn, there must not be much left of Earth after I go looking for artifacts.
By 'nearby systems' she must've implied ones with a Relay in it. It definitely doesn't take years to fly to a neighbouring solar system, but the Relays are so far apart that destroying the Alpha Relay postponed the invasion significantly.
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