885 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Since TIM is indoctrinated I'd imagine the Reapers altered his thought patterns so he thought capturing the citadel would help his goals. It could be seen as a way for the reapers to control the citadel without a frontal assault. But I never really understood Udina's motivations and what he ultimately hoped to gain (unless we are supposed to believe he was also indoctrinated).

We can't use the "he was indoctrinated" because we also see at Sanctuary that he was capable of resisting the Reapers' influence to a certain degree.

 

Frontal attacks on the center of galactic civilization are not what Cerberus is being used by the Reapers for anyways

[DeinonSlayer]

The Citadel Coup doesn't fit because it's in the wrong part of the game. It was initially meant to be towards the end of the game after TIM finds out about the Catalyst, but they moved it to the middle of the game. Because I guess we were spending too much time fighting Reapers and not Cerberus.
 
No, really. That was the reasoning.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

 Last ME1 one I can think of...

 

Garrus/Wrex: "And [Liara's] biotics could come in handy during a fight."

 

Being a biotic does not mean you're cut out for combat alongside trained marines and mercenaries. If anything, it means the opposite. Biotics cause fatigue quickly. Wilting flowers are not useful in a fight. Liara also indicates that her biotic training was mainly for self-defense purposes, and her background does not suggest much experience with weapons either.

 

Now if only there was an asari commando character in this game who would make for a convincing combatant in both biotics and firearms, while also being an attractive specimen for the player to romance...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ImaginaryMatter]

 Last ME1 one I can think of...

 

Garrus/Wrex: "And [Liara's] biotics could come in handy during a fight."

 

Being a biotic does not mean you're cut out for combat alongside trained marines and mercenaries. If anything, it means the opposite. Biotics cause fatigue quickly. Wilting flowers are not useful in a fight. Liara also indicates that her biotic training was mainly for self-defense purposes, and her background does not suggest much experience with weapons either.

 

I think that ties into one of her overall weaknesses as a character in ME1 where her availability as a squadmate really contrasts with her character.

[Livi14]

Personally, I wouldn't mind Shiala. But I think Liara still makes more sense than Tali. At least Liara's a strong biotic. But one has to wonder why Udina thought we need a quarian teenager.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Personally, I wouldn't mind Shiala. But I think Liara still makes more sense than Tali. At least Liara's a strong biotic. But one has to wonder why Udina thought we need a quarian teenager.

 

I thought it was because she was an 'expert' on the Geth.

 

At the very least she has some sort of military training and is seen handling herself pretty well.

[TheOneTrueBioticGod]

I thought it was because she was an 'expert' on the Geth.

 

At the very least she has some sort of military training and is seen handling herself pretty well.

She does have a shotgun.

[SporkFu]

She does have a shotgun.

And a really cute strut when she walks in ME3... err, well, I think so anyway. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

She does have a shotgun.

 

Everyone has a shotgun though back in ME1...

[DeinonSlayer]

Personally, I wouldn't mind Shiala. But I think Liara still makes more sense than Tali. At least Liara's a strong biotic. But one has to wonder why Udina thought we need a quarian teenager.

Eh... We first meet one of them throwing a grenade at some sleazebag who tried to feel her up in an alley and fending off her other assailants with a shotgun. With the other we got "I'm here in this bubble! I'm trapped, I need help!" immediately followed by "Ohh... I am sorry, the melding is exhausting, but incredible! Let's bone."

Shiala would have made a far stronger squadmate than Liara, IMO. There would also be the question of her trustworthiness. Maybe they could have kept her in the brig for questioning until the player was comfortable letting her out. We could do all kinds of things when we first encountered Zevran in DA:O.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Eh... We first meet one of them throwing a grenade at some sleazebag who tried to feel her up in an alley and fending off her other assailants with a shotgun. With the other we got "I'm here in this bubble! I'm trapped, I need help!" and "Ohh... I am sorry, the melding is exhausting, but incredible!"

Shiala would have made a far stronger squadmate than Liara, IMO. There would also be the question of her trustworthiness. Maybe they could have kept her in the brig for questioning until the player was comfortable letting her out. We could do all kinds of things when we first encountered Zevran in DA:O.

 

In my personal story I fuse Liara and Shiala together, resulting in a transformed Liara that is recruited on Feros (Liara's recruitment mission is also very boring).

[Livi14]

Liara is ambushed by dozens of geth and a krogan warlord. There is nothing she could have done. Tali on the other hand: "Hmmm a meeting with the shadow broker in an alleyway? Sounds good!"

And Liara's skills are actually useful on the battlefield, unlike Tali's. Nothing like throwing people around like ragdolls.

[ZipZap2000]

Dunno about that Tali + Legion = A small drone army that keeps those damn YMIR mechs distracted.

 

 

 

Jack: Whenever they get tired I tell them about the Collector base throwing shockwaves all over the place.

 

Students: Our teacher worked with commander Shepard? I wonder why she never told us?

 

Unless she's taking the credit for herself, I wouldn't put it past her.

[DeinonSlayer]

Liara is ambushed by dozens of geth and a krogan warlord. There is nothing she could have done. Tali on the other hand: "Hmmm a meeting with the shadow broker in an alleyway? Sounds good!"
And Liara's skills are actually useful on the battlefield, unlike Tali's.

She outmaneuvered a team of assassins who hounded her halfway across the galaxy before ending up there, and handled the situation competently when it turned into an ambush.

Whatever. You've made up your mind, as have I, but the last part of your post is just silly. Give Ashley a shotgun, and she gives me Carnage and Adrenaline Rush. Give Tali a shotgun, and she gives me Carnage, Overload, Sabotage, Damping, AI hacking, the strongest shields in the game and opens boxes to boot. Tech is extremely useful if you know what you're doing with it (which, evidently, you don't). I suppose it depends to some extent on what class you're pairing up with. I've never played an Adept or Sentinel, so spamming biotic explosions really isn't my thing.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Liara is ambushed by dozens of geth and a krogan warlord. There is nothing she could have done. Tali on the other hand: "Hmmm a meeting with the shadow broker in an alleyway? Sounds good!"

And Liara's skills are actually useful on the battlefield, unlike Tali's. Nothing like throwing people around like ragdolls.

 

Well I won't deny that Liara is a better squadmate on account of ME1 biotics turning entire rooms into shooting galleries, with relative ease. However, Liara cowers on the spot when we first meet her. Tali didn't have much of a choice on who and where she was meeting if she wanted to continue investigating.

[DeinonSlayer]

I'll just leave this here:

[Barquiel]

Well I won't deny that Liara is a better squadmate on account of ME1 biotics turning entire rooms into shooting galleries, with relative ease. However, Liara cowers on the spot when we first meet her. Tali didn't have much of a choice on who and where she was meeting if she wanted to continue investigating.

 

Biotics were ridiculously overpowered in ME1. Liara is unarmed, she has no armor and she's been in her bubble for god knows how long without food, water and sleep (biotics require a lot more food than normal people...so her biotics are at most unstable). What is she supposed to do? Despite being a canonically powerful biotic she's clearly not in shape for fighting. As for Shiala, can I have both?

And the whole situation with the SB was simply dumb. No one meets the SB, and this seems to be common knowledge in the MEU. But Tali obviously expected to meet the SB in a dark corner of the citadel because some shady night club owner said so.

[Quarian Master Race]

Personally, I wouldn't mind Shiala. But I think Liara still makes more sense than Tali. At least Liara's a strong biotic. But one has to wonder why Udina thought we need a quarian teenager.

date of birth in the codex is listed as 2161....game takes place in 2183

Ask anyone in any army ever if they would rather have a trained combat engineer/sapper or a ****** archeologist. Liara's character makes zero sense in the context of the rest of the squadmates, has no reason for being able to even perform combat biotics or use a weapon without injuring herself and others, and most importantly, lacks the psychological conditioning necessary to even take part in combat without turning into a weeping mess. You think military forces around the globe have strict training regimens for shits and giggles? Yet she can do all these things and is also proficient in military intelligence and data management (ME2 shadow broker nonsense) despite having no background in it. There is a reason not many archeology majors are in the CIA.

The very definition of a Mary Sue character. Give me Shiala any day of the week.

[Barquiel]

Culturally and socially, Tali is a quarian teenager in ME1. Besides the whole 'aliens mature at different rates', Tali identifies herself as her pilgramige being a rite of adulthood. That, along with her otherwise inexperience, makes the 'teenager' tagline reasonable.

I guess you don't really know what a Mary Sue is. Why would Liara need combat training? I don't know, maybe because she traveled the Terminus systems and the Attican Traverse for decades...alone. With her interests, it only makes sense she trained her own natural abilities for protection. Story-wise, Liara is nowhere near as powerful as Samara or Morinth, but she had to deal with pirates, slavers and ferocious animals before people like Kaidan, Tali, Ashley or Garrus were even born (as she tells you in ME1).

[SporkFu]

In my personal story I fuse Liara and Shiala together, resulting in a transformed Liara that is recruited on Feros (Liara's recruitment mission is also very boring).

I approve of this idea. Shiala could have been Benezia's daughter, and does she really need to be a prothean expert? By the time the trilogy ends, is Liara's prothean expertise a factor in anything? Everything she imagined the protheans to be was thrown out the window by Javik just being himself. Maybe the scientists and wise councilors were different, but... hell, it's not like we're gonna know, not really. At the very least you have to think they'd all have that superior imperialistic attitude.  

 

What if Ann Bryson were the prothean expert on Mars instead? Instead of studying rachni, she could have been studying a prothean-Leviathan connection instead, and maybe Hackett asks for her help instead of Liara, who is too busy actually being the Shadow Broker. Maybe we catch up with Liara later, when we have to rescue her in a rare mission against Cerberus foes. Then Ann leaves us when we reach the citadel, to report back to her father, and that's she goes on the Leviathan dig. 

 

So instead of a archaeologist/prothean expert, we get an asari commando.

 

With Ali Hillis' voice. I like Shiala's original voice, but there's no contest. 

 

And green skin.

 

Kirk shep says, Yes please.

[Aezint]

It amazes me that this is still an argument after all these years.

[Quarian Master Race]

Culturally and socially, Tali is a quarian teenager in ME1. Besides the whole 'aliens mature at different rates', Tali identifies herself as her pilgramige being a rite of adulthood. That, along with her otherwise inexperience, makes the 'teenager' tagline reasonable.

I guess you don't really know what a Mary Sue is. Why would Liara need combat training? I don't know, maybe because she traveled the Terminus systems and the Attican Traverse for decades...alone. With her interests, it only makes sense she trained her own natural abilities for protection. Story-wise, Liara is nowhere near as powerful as Samara or Morinth, but she had to deal with pirates, slavers and ferocious animals before people like Kaidan, Tali, Ashley or Garrus were even born (as she tells you in ME1).

The term used "teenager" is a pretty simple categorical identifier that Tali is disqualified from in being 22 years of age and not living under guardianship. "Culturally and socially" is not relevant, as individual humans mature socially at different rates (i.e: a 25 year old can be less mature than an 18 year old) before even considering other species (not that quarians would be significantly different by in universe standards considering they mature and age at basically the same rate). Pilgramige is a "rite" of adulthood, much like a human acquiring a college degree or getting married is considered a rite of adulthood. It is not necessarily a rigid dividing line between adolescence and adulthood as defined in legal terms, further evidenced by the fact that the window within which it can be undertaken is flexible (Han'Gerrel's mention of him and Rael'Zorah being "kicked off" earlier than usual.). "Teenager" is nonetheless a completely inept moniker.

You must have some new information that the DoD could use. Physical and psychological military training for combat situations is a complete waste of taxpayer money because you can teach yourself in your own backyard tactics, techniques for handling military grade hardware, and how to not break down when people are trying to murder you, provided you have an archeology degree. That "pirates and slavers" nonsense is weak. Still raises the circular question of how would she have even initially acquired the skill to defeat such adversaries in the first place and thus acquire the skills that she has by the time of the game? Does every woman who gets mugged for her purse instantly gain a 10th degree blackbelt and a Marine Corps. expert marksman rating?

[KaiserShep]

I wouldn't mind Shiala, but only if she spoke a bit differently.

 

Zhuu's Hope.

 

I think Tali's high risk of death by infection is a bigger concern than her combat training.

[Livi14]

date of birth in the codex is listed as 2161....game takes place in 2183

Ask anyone in any army ever if they would rather have a trained combat engineer/sapper or a ****** archeologist. Liara's character makes zero sense in the context of the rest of the squadmates, has no reason for being able to even perform combat biotics or use a weapon without injuring herself and others, and most importantly, lacks the psychological conditioning necessary to even take part in combat without turning into a weeping mess. You think military forces around the globe have strict training regimens for shits and giggles? Yet she can do all these things and is also proficient in military intelligence and data management (ME2 shadow broker nonsense) despite having no background in it. There is a reason not many archeology majors are in the CIA.

The very definition of a Mary Sue character. Give me Shiala any day of the week.

 
Tali was just on her pilgrimage in ME1, which is the right of passage. Rights of passages, by their nature, tend to be very early in adulthood, if not slightly before. That means she was the equivalent of a human at the age of 16-18.

I wasn't aware that biotics exist in the real world and Liara's biotics are the reason why we use her on the battlefield. So, your argument is irrelevent.

[Farangbaa]

You can kill Tali by kissing her unexpectedly.