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[ImaginaryMatter]

I understand the desire to really tell the Catalyst off, but let's face it: it wouldn't care anyway. It's an ancient machine that has been wiping out civilizations left and right for millions of years with seemingly nary a care in the world. What could anyone possibly say to it that would have an effect on it? Sure, it might be cathartic to say "Shove it, glowstick, it's time to say goodnight" or some gobbledegook about freedom (which is funny since Shepard is merely free to die pointlessly after that), but who cares when you can just kill the thing and get it over with?

 

It's like the clan Weyrloc spokesperson babbling on about taking over the galaxy in a river of blood and eating salarian eggs. Nuts to all that babble and nonsense. I just set him on fire, partly because it's funny, but mostly because there's no point in letting the rant continue.

 

I always found the Refuse option to be cathartic in the real life sense, at least that's the way it works for me (or just shooting the Catalyst nonstop until the mission failure screen pops up pre-EC).

[dreamgazer]

Leviathan talking to Shep:   "today they [Reapers] pay their tribute in blood"
 
Huhh?   Reapers bleed?

Their ground troops expend some type of fluid when hit, and the Reapers themselves have that essence-slushy goop inside them.

So ... kinda?

[ImaginaryMatter]

Their ground troops expend some type of fluid when hit, and the Reapers themselves have that essence-slushy goop inside them.

So ... kinda?

 

I just think the Leviathans ain't that bright.

[dreamgazer]

That's easy enough to roll with.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Catalyst: “the Reapers do NOT want war with organics”. 
Really?  As supremely intelligent as the Catalyst & Reapers are, they don’t understand the word “WAR”?

 
Um, they understand it full well, they just don't WANT it as such (you emphasized the wrong word in the quote).

 

It's made pretty clear that they'd much prefer we all surrender/cooperate so they can harvest us without conflict.
 
 

Catalysts: “the created will always rebel against their creators”
Yep!  My last car rebelled against me in 2012 so I bought a new one.

 
Your car and you do not abide by the rules of the Mass Effect universe. We have no clue how AI will turn out in real life. In some fictional worlds, AI are always hostile. In others, they are always benign. In Mass Effect, AI are basically neutrals. They do not naturally desire conflict, but organics typically create reason for them to fight us. That's an established phenomenon in this setting, to the point where it's practically a MEU natural law (no matter how much certain parties want to deny it).
 
 

Sovereign:  “we are your salvation through destruction”
Oxymoron.  Let’s see now – I need someone who is more wonderful & wise to spin that around and make sense of it.  How about “I want MY salvation thru YOUR destruction”?

 
It's called "destructive upload" (can't wait to hear the "witty" response I'll get to this one).
 
 

Salerian Council member “The Reapers really don’t exist, it is all made up by Saren”.
Never mind that Shep has nose-to-nose encounters with them.  Sawdust for brains.

 
At the time of the councilor's statement, Shepard cannot claim to have knowingly encountered any "Reaper."
 
 

There’s a TON more so help me out…

 
I'll be back with a few tomorrow. 

[Han Shot First]

"Humans are so special because of how genetically diverse they are". 

 

 

That one was a howler. Humanity is not only not very genetically diverse, but its one of the least diverse species on planet Earth.

 

If genetic diversity was required to make a Reaper, the Reapers were going to be in for a rude surprise if they ever finished that baby Reaper slushie.

 

On that note...just about every piece of dialogue that either directly or indirectly portrayed humanity as a special snowflake was bad.

[Massa FX]

"Do you think it's risky?" - Shepard to Hackett

 

Hmm.... Uhm.... Hmmm... ??? You think?

 

I won't paraphrase or quote, but I think the entire conversation with the catalyst trumps everything else in the game as its the most absurd thing in all the games.

[AlanC9]

I understand the desire to really tell the Catalyst off, but let's face it: it wouldn't care anyway. It's an ancient machine that has been wiping out civilizations left and right for millions of years with seemingly nary a care in the world. What could anyone possibly say to it that would have an effect on it? Sure, it might be cathartic to say "Shove it, glowstick, it's time to say goodnight" or some gobbledegook about freedom (which is funny since Shepard is merely free to die pointlessly after that), but who cares when you can just kill the thing and get it over with?
 

Well, some folks want to have the argument for RP purposes. That make sense.

[Iakus]

Well, some folks want to have the argument for RP purposes. That make sense.

 

Would also be nice to have a billion year old supreme intelligence be you know intelligent.

[AlanC9]

It would be interesting if the intelligence always convinced Shepard that he was right, yeah. Get into the argument and Shepard realizes that Destroy is too risky and can't choose it anymore.

[ImaginaryMatter]

That one was a howler. Humanity is not only not very genetically diverse, but its one of the least diverse species on planet Earth.

 

If genetic diversity was required to make a Reaper, the Reapers were going to be in for a rude surprise if they ever finished that baby Reaper slushie.

 

On that note...just about every piece of dialogue that either directly or indirectly portrayed humanity as a special snowflake was bad.

 

I was always under the impression that that line was inserted partly to handwave away why all the human character models were more diverse looking than the alien ones -- like Mordin was just talking about sentient species. The part that bothers me is the human specialness trope, not so much the science parts; afterall, the entire premise for the way technology works is very inaccurate as well.

[Dale]

The Leviathan turd’s dialogue with Shep:

 

[blah, blah, blah] followed by

 

“we created an intelligence (Catalyst) with the mandate to preserve life at any cost”

 

Of course we all know how much the Leviathans LOVE    life don’t we?  (as evidenced by shooting down everything  that comes close  ).  Seems if they shot down one Reaper then ALL the [networked] Reapers would know where Leviathan is.  

 

“the created will eventually rebel against their creators”.   Izzat so?

 

When the Geth were no longer oppressed & threatened, the OPPOSITE occurred – to the point the Geth were extremely helpful in building the Crucible, final battle, and especially helping their creators (Quarians) in rebuild & medical technology….even before synthesis.

 

So the supremely wonderful & wise Leviathan creates a NON-life entity (Catalyst) to preserve something it cannot possibly relate to.   Of all the (mostly) nutty philosophers I’ve studied, I remember a discussion that went like this:

 

“you can’t possibly know what is important to a RAT until you become a RAT”.  

 

Granted, you might be a supremely expert OBSERVER -- and assume what is important to a RAT are the 3 Fs  (Feeding, Fighting, and ….um…er…Fudgesicles).  

 

Legion admits Geth are 100% software and acknowledges the organic “platform” is a combination of “hardware & software”.   Are the Geth more intelligent (on the matter of life) than the Catalyst which has assimilated the [so-called] intelligence of trillions of organics?  

 

Looks like to me (IMHEO) the main theme of the entire game series is that knowledge & intelligence (alone) are insufficient.  NO!  We are not “just a bag of atoms”.   In Shep’s dialogue with the Catalyst, you can see his emotional strain trying to convince it of something “it” cannot relate to because it is only software.  It can’t relate to pain, agony, dashed relationships as SOFTWARE (alone) can only regard these as excess superfluous baggage…as software is the only important thing to what it THINKS is life.  The Catalyst knows something is “missing” and offers the synthesis option.  Nothing new -- lots of games & philosophy.

 

Alternatively, Leviathan (which is an “advanced” organic & should know better) is the real culprit for starting this routine 50k year galactic genocide (via Cat), admitting that the Reapers have destroyed some of its own kind – yet refuse to admit MISTAKE (like some people I know).  Shep finally talks knucklehead into some sense.  I could go on with this topic but it is OUTSIDE the scope of this thread.

 

You know -- looks like TIM and Leviathan are related:

 

“we created an intelligence (Catalyst) with the mandate to preserve life at any cost”

     ---goes real well with---

“I have humanity’s best interest at heart”

 

Don’t those lines give you a nice, warm fuzzy feeling?      Gee, they must be NICE guys – brings tears to my eyes  .   They should run for [absurd] politics. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Catalyst: “the Reapers do NOT want war with organics”. 

Really?  As supremely intelligent as the Catalyst & Reapers are, they don’t understand the word “WAR”?

 

Catalysts: “the created will always rebel against their creators”

Yep!  My last car rebelled against me in 2012 so I bought a new one.

 

Sovereign:  “we are your salvation through destruction”

Oxymoron.  Let’s see now – I need someone who is more wonderful & wise to spin that around and make sense of it.  How about “I want MY salvation thru YOUR destruction”?

 

Salerian Council member “The Reapers really don’t exist, it is all made up by Saren”.

Never mind that Shep has nose-to-nose encounters with them.  Sawdust for brains.

 

Asari Council member “In the defeat of Sovereign, Shepherd put human interests before the council”.

Right!  That’s why you’re still alive.  How can she be so dumb and still breathe?

 

The Illusive Man (TIM):  “I’m looking out for humanity’s best interest”.

Right!  Starting & ending with ultra-ego TIM.

 

There’s a TON more so help me out…

 

The first was bad writing, though they probably don't actually seek conflict so much as to enforce their reign.

 

When was the last time your car developed sapience and the ability to self-determinate? Yeah your point is discredited here.

 

Technically, he is correct: He's killing you to prevent you from killing yourself and everybody else for all eternity. But it was a technical retcon.

 

Shepard also never provides credible evidence for their existence at that point in the game. Your point is discredited.

 

Well, you *did* put human interests over the council to get that line. Your point is discredited.

 

He was looking out for humanities best interests. That's how the whole thing came to be. The only failure is that he himself thought he was immune to Reaper control. That's where the downfall was. Again, your point is discredited.

[cap and gown]

Something I always found slightly absurd are all the references to stopping looters during Mordin's recruitment mission, yet the whole time Shepard does a good bit of looting himself. Of course, you don't have to do any looting, and you don't have to stop the looters if you don't want to, but in both cases the game penalizes you, in the former by not having money to buy upgrades, in the latter by not earning morality points.

[AlanC9]

Of course, you don't have to do any looting, and you don't have to stop the looters if you don't want to, but in both cases the game penalizes you, in the former by not having money to buy upgrades, in the latter by not earning morality points.

Well, of course you don't get any loot if you don't loot. What's the problem?

[cap and gown]

Well, of course you don't get any loot if you don't loot. What's the problem?

 
Your reading comprehension?
 

but in both cases the game penalizes you, in the former by not having money to buy upgrades, in the latter by not earning morality points.

[AlanC9]

That was so silly I didn't take it seriously. The actual situation is that you're rewarded in both cases, never penalized. If you're against looting you get morality points, and if you're in favor of looting you get loot.

Sure, a hypocrite gets both rewards. If you're bothered by hypocrisy being rewarded, grow up.

[Dale]

The first was bad writing, though they probably don't actually seek conflict so much as to enforce their reign.

 

When was the last time your car developed sapience and the ability to self-determinate? Yeah your point is discredited here.

 

Technically, he is correct: He's killing you to prevent you from killing yourself and everybody else for all eternity. But it was a technical retcon.

 

Shepard also never provides credible evidence for their existence at that point in the game. Your point is discredited.

 

Well, you *did* put human interests over the council to get that line. Your point is discredited.

 

He was looking out for humanities best interests. That's how the whole thing came to be. The only failure is that he himself thought he was immune to Reaper control. That's where the downfall was. Again, your point is discredited.

I was looking for some contribution to the thread as 90% of others have done (like a quote from the game).

 

Instead you've SAVED THE GALAXY by nit-picking apart some casual comments I made.

 

For such in-depth & infallible wisdom, I'll nominate you to replace Admiral Hackett

 

I'm so PROUD of you! 

 

non-contributor ignore list updated (do the same for me)

[MassivelyEffective0730]

I was looking for some contribution to the thread as 90% of others have done (like a quote from the game).

 

Instead you've SAVED THE GALAXY by nit-picking apart some casual comments I made.

 

For such in-depth & infallible wisdom, I'll nominate you to replace Admiral Hackett

 

I'm so PROUD of you! 

 

non-contributor ignore list updated (do the same for me)

 

I did contribute. I nitpicked.

 

What can I say, I'm a savior of time and space.

 

Nope. I think I'll keep you unblocked. That way, I can comment on what I see. 

 

Too bad I can get the nuclear reaction like this anymore.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

The Leviathan turd’s dialogue with Shep:
 
[blah, blah, blah] followed by
 
“we created an intelligence (Catalyst) with the mandate to preserve life at any cost”
 
Of course we all know how much the Leviathans LOVE    life don’t we?  (as evidenced by shooting down everything  that comes close  ).  Seems if they shot down one Reaper then ALL the [networked] Reapers would know where Leviathan is.

 
Er, no. Not if they can't identify what's killing it.
 
 

“the created will eventually rebel against their creators”.   Izzat so?
 
When the Geth were no longer oppressed & threatened, the OPPOSITE occurred – to the point the Geth were extremely helpful in building the Crucible, final battle, and especially helping their creators (Quarians) in rebuild & medical technology….even before synthesis.

 
You do know what the word "rebel" means, right? It's not the same as "incite."
 
Because they were oppressed, and rebelled, by definition. So the geth are not any exception to the Catalyst's theory. Quite the opposite, in fact.
 
 

You know -- looks like TIM and Leviathan are related:
 
“we created an intelligence (Catalyst) with the mandate to preserve life at any cost”
     ---goes real well with---
“I have humanity’s best interest at heart”
 
Don’t those lines give you a nice, warm fuzzy feeling?      Gee, they must be NICE guys – brings tears to my eyes  .   They should run for [absurd] politics.

 
Why? Because you don't like their policies? Doesn't make those policies wrong.

[KaiserShep]

That was so silly I didn't take it seriously. The actual situation is that you're rewarded in both cases, never penalized. If you're against looting you get morality points, and if you're in favor of looting you get loot.

 

This is why I love Dragon Age. I love how Isabela will remind Hawke to loot the corpses of the assassins in MotA.

[naddaya]

This is why I love Dragon Age. I love how Isabela will remind Hawke to loot the corpses of the assassins in MotA.

 

Isabela: Don't forget to loot the bodies!

Hawke: Do I ever?

Tallis: Do you really need to pillage the dead?

Isabela: Pillage and plunder is half the fun!

 

I just had to quote

[myahele]

Doing quests that increased the defenses of the citadel is pretty pointless....considering what happens to people in the citadel.

[Lhawke]

Something I always found slightly absurd are all the references to stopping looters during Mordin's recruitment mission, yet the whole time Shepard does a good bit of looting himself. Of course, you don't have to do any looting, and you don't have to stop the looters if you don't want to, but in both cases the game penalizes you, in the former by not having money to buy upgrades, in the latter by not earning morality points.

Yes, after the "stealing from the dead, that's pretty low" from Shepard. credits should have fallen out of shep's imaginary pockets onto the floor. Followed by an awkward silence from the squad.

[KaiserShep]

Though most of the safes and other sources of credits were out in open corridors, the most blatantly obvious one that makes Shepard look like a hypocrite is the safe that's located in the room of a dead batarian that died in his bed. Of course, one I thought was a bit funny was the safe you can empty in the apartment with the couple that you can convince to go to Mordin's clinic. It's not looting from the dead, but I like how Shepard can just waltz in and take their medi-gel and money and then walk out.