154 réponses à ce sujet

[Dargon Affected]

Again, we aren't given a time frame for these things other than "in time" which to an immortal race would mean nothing, also with magic there is no need for freezing or airtight containers. that being said I don't think that the Elder One will be an ancient elf, and it could very well be a greater pride demon. however I think  JobacNoor has the right Idea, that It's a being of immense, even incomprehensible power (if indeed they are even the primary antagonist).

 

 

*edit* I agree with Warlock.

Modifié par Dragon Effected, 11 juillet 2014 - 03:06 .

[Alan Rickman]

By the way, that last link also says pride demons are the only ones who can actually bring and command other demons with them through the veil. Seeing as the whole of Thedus is under a demon siege the likes of which have never been seen before... A greater pride demon being behind everything is even more likely.

 

"It is they who seek most strongly to possess mages, and will bring other demons across the Veil in numbers to achieve their own ends—although what that might be has never been discovered."

 

If it ends up being a greater pride demon and not something else, I just hope they can make a convincing enough distinction between a greater pride demon and a pride demon. We've killed several pride demons over the course of DA:O and DA2 with relative ease. It should be made very clear and hammered home hard that greater truly means greater. I also wouldn't mind the greater pride demon having a completely different design from the regular ones to avoid the player thinking "oh, I suppose it's a big bigger but I've killed dozens of those before..." rather than soiling themselves at the mere thought of it arriving on Thedas.

[andy6915]

Not if they woke up before their body deteriorated and they didn't lose their immortality.  Besides, we don't know how long it takes an elder's body to deteriorate.  Additionally, they could have taken precautions to maintain their body.  Magic can apparently do such a thing.  Avernus didn't exactly have access to a grocery while he was cooped up in that tower for all those years.

And of course there's strong hinting that blood magic is the real reason ancient elves were "immortal" in the first place.

[andy6915]

If it ends up being a greater pride demon and not something else, I just hope they can make a convincing enough distinction between a greater pride demon and a pride demon. We've killed several pride demons over the course of DA:O and DA2 with relative ease. It should be made very clear and hammered home hard that greater truly means greater. I also wouldn't mind the greater pride demon having a completely different design from the regular ones to avoid the player thinking "oh, I suppose it's a big bigger but I've killed dozens of those before..." rather than soiling themselves at the mere thought of it arriving on Thedas.

 

True, we have [killed many before]. I think that codex makes that distinction though. It points out that pride demons are the worst, and that a greater version would be a literal "end of the world" threat. Like a walking Apocalypse. The only other thing ever described in the codex as world threatening is blights. So it's at a bare minimum as bad as a blight in full swing is.

[Eudaemonium]

I kind of always assumed Uthenera (not the practice, but the belief that immortal elves did it) was just something invented by the elves to make themselves feel better. I basically don't believe the elves were ever actually immortal, will or can be again. In Origins the Dalish thought they were becoming immortal again because of Zathrian, but he was just duping everyone with blood magic. If ancient elves *were* immortal, it probably had more to do with blood magic than any inherent immortality the loss of which they could blame on 'quickening' caused by humans.

 

Basically, I don't really believe that there can be ancient elves around in the present, unless they're like Zathrian.

[andy6915]

I kind of always assumed Uthenera (not the practice, but the belief that immortal elves did it) was just something invented by the elves to make themselves feel better. I basically don't believe the elves were ever actually immortal, will or can be again. In Origins the Dalish thought they were becoming immortal again because of Zathrian, but he was just duping everyone with blood magic. If ancient elves *were* immortal, it probably had more to do with blood magic than any inherent immortality the loss of which they could blame on 'quickening' caused by humans.

 

Basically, I don't really believe that there can be ancient elves around in the present, unless they're like Zathrian.

 

I think so too. It was likely with blood magic and weird sacrifices that they were immortal, and the humans don't like blood magic and waged war on them to stop their use of it. With the stopped use of blood magic, they lost the knowledge on how to use it to become immortal. The "we were in too close proximity and merely being within the same breathing space caused our blood to magically quicken and made us mortal, aka humans had quickening cooties" explanation has always sounded like nonsense.

[Heimdall]

I think so too. It was likely with blood magic and weird sacrifices that they were immortal, and the humans don't like blood magic and waged war on them to stop their use of it. With the stopped use of blood magic, they lost the knowledge on how to use it to become immortal. The "we were in too close proximity and merely being within the same breathing space caused our blood to magically quicken and made us mortal, aka humans had quickening cooties" explanation has always sounded like nonsense.

Seeing as Tevinter(Known for practicing blood magic back to the very first Archon) was the kingdom waging war the ancient elves, I rather doubt that was why.

[Warlock]

If it ends up being a greater pride demon and not something else, I just hope they can make a convincing enough distinction between a greater pride demon and a pride demon. We've killed several pride demons over the course of DA:O and DA2 with relative ease. It should be made very clear and hammered home hard that greater truly means greater. I also wouldn't mind the greater pride demon having a completely different design from the regular ones to avoid the player thinking "oh, I suppose it's a big bigger but I've killed dozens of those before..." rather than soiling themselves at the mere thought of it arriving on Thedas.

 

This. A million times this. Otherwise it will be like "*sigh* another one of you...".

 

On a side, "philosophical" note... why is it that we're willing to find an ancient elf as fascinating, but a greater pride demon as "another on of those"? I mean, we don't compare the hypothetical ancient elf with the lowliest elf in the lowliest alienage, yet the difference in power might be proportional to the one between the generic pride demons and a greater one. Guess it's kind of hard seeing demons as a "race" just like the others .

[andy6915]

Seeing as Tevinter(Known for practicing blood magic back to the very first Archon) was the kingdom waging war the ancient elves, I rather doubt that was why.

Well regardless of the reasons of why they went to war, blood magic being the source of the immortality is very likely. Do you think it's a coincidence that the only 2 people in the series so far to survive literally centuries are both blood mages who used blood magic in a way that specifically kept them alive, one of which was an elf who lied and convinced everyone he got the immortality gift back?

[Alan Rickman]

True, we have [killed many before]. I think that codex makes that distinction though. It points out that pride demons are the worst, and that a greater version would be a literal "end of the world" threat. Like a walking Apocalypse. The only other thing ever described in the codex as world threatening is blights. So it's at a bare minimum as bad as a blight in full swing is.

 

Not everyone reads the codex entries, and even if they did it's far more effective to actually show the player what they're dealing with. It would be relatively easy and plausible for the Inquisitor to get glimpses of what The Elder One is and what it is capable of as we probably will traverse the Fade more than once. Also have people (Solas? Flemeth?) tell the Inquisitor in no uncertain terms that if The Elder One ever gets through the breach, they could unite every single nation under one banner to fight it, somehow cause a massive blight and get the millions and millions of darkspawn to fight alongside them with the remaining Old Gods along for the ride and still lose. Handily.

 

As I said in the Twitter thread, I'd love for it to be a very Lovecraftian being of pure terror and unimaginable power, so much so that it's mere existence causes people to kill themselves rather than live on knowing such a monstrosity exists.

[myahele]

I would think it could be an untainted old god

[andy6915]

Not everyone reads the codex entries, and even if they did it's far more effective to actually show the player what they're dealing with. It would be relatively easy and plausible for the Inquisitor to get glimpses of what The Elder One is and what it is capable of as we probably will traverse the Fade more than once. Also have people (Solas? Flemeth?) tell the Inquisitor in no uncertain terms that if The Elder One ever gets through the breach, they could unite every single nation under one banner to fight it, somehow cause a massive blight and get the millions and millions of darkspawn to fight alongside them with the remaining Old Gods along for the ride and still lose. Handily.

 

As I said in the Twitter thread, I'd love for it to be a very Lovecraftian being of pure terror and unimaginable power, so much so that it's mere existence causes people to kill themselves rather than live on knowing such a monstrosity exists.

 

As to the part about showing what it's capable of, that shouldn't be hard. It would be easy to make some actual cutscenes and dialogue clarify what the codex all the way back in DAO was talking about when it came to greater pride demons.

 

As for the rest, that is exactly what I think a greater pride demon showing up would be like. Lovecraftian horror. Like could give the Maker himself a hell of a fight, that the Maker might actually lose (if the Maker is real in DA).

[thegoldfinch]

If it's Fen'Harel I will flip out and never recover. I'm obsessed with trickster gods. 

[Dabrikishaw]

Fen'harel would be my guess.

[Jakia]

Two pages of suggestions and no one has even jokingly suggested Cthulhu? I am disappointed.

[Elhanan]

One of the imprisoned Elven gods, and the Inquisitor is Fen'Harel attempting to restrain them again.

[andy6915]

Fen'harel would be my guess.

Ah, the dread Wolf. Could be a good guess. He apparently managed to trap the entirety of the elven god hierarchy in another universe. But... He also chewed his tail off and ran like a wuss from a simple Mabari, according to Merrill's tale of him. So he's super impressive sometimes, super not impressive other time.

[Shin_Seijurou]

All we know is that "THE END IS COMING!". It sure is powerful enough to drive a magister insane. Cool

[Giubba]

Elder one?

 

My money over a ludricous old deamon that was spun into action after the fade breach.

[AresKeith]

Yea, I don't think the Elder One is the big bad.

Seems more like sub-boss territory in that aspect

[Grog Muffins]

Ancient elf wreaking vengeance across the face of Thedas is my bet.  I'd find that far more interesting than any of the above.  Coming face to face with gods degrades the setting in my view.

 

It depends on how it's handled. I personalty found meeting and talking to Myrkul in NWN2 fascinating, not degrading to the lore or a let down after his build-up.

 

 

I'd like The Elder One to be a being so beyond our comprehension that if it ever crosses over from the Fade, there is literally nothing anyone could do, no matter how the protagonist always finds a way in games. The only chance of victory is to stop that from happening, and I'm guessing our actual main antagonist is someone actively seeking to release The Elder One, but obviously not as godlike in power. The Elder One should be more akin to a massive natural disaster that dooms the whole world by merely happening, not a mustache twirling villain.

 

So, basically Nix from Persona 3?

 

 

I kind of always assumed Uthenera (not the practice, but the belief that immortal elves did it) was just something invented by the elves to make themselves feel better. I basically don't believe the elves were ever actually immortal, will or can be again. In Origins the Dalish thought they were becoming immortal again because of Zathrian, but he was just duping everyone with blood magic. If ancient elves *were* immortal, it probably had more to do with blood magic than any inherent immortality the loss of which they could blame on 'quickening' caused by humans.

 

Basically, I don't really believe that there can be ancient elves around in the present, unless they're like Zathrian.

 

I agree. I never thought the Dalish to be unbiased (although I guess I understand why that might be), they've romanticized their history so much because they don't really know anything about it (or they're very convincing at pretending they don't). I certainly don't buy them being the peace loving Tolkienesque elves in the days of Arlathan, I'm very inclined to believe blood magic had something to do with their extended life span, if there even was one, and the war with the humans started because of some other reasons that we don't know. At this point, anything's possible.

 

The Codex entries, also, shouldn't be taken as gospel -  they're mainly rumors, stories passed down through word of mouth, different people's journals and theories. Personally, I think they're more of a guiding blurb, not undeniable truth.

[Nyeredzi]

Corypheus, or Flemeth

[Heimdall]

This. A million times this. Otherwise it will be like "*sigh* another one of you...".

 

On a side, "philosophical" note... why is it that we're willing to find an ancient elf as fascinating, but a greater pride demon as "another on of those"? I mean, we don't compare the hypothetical ancient elf with the lowliest elf in the lowliest alienage, yet the difference in power might be proportional to the one between the generic pride demons and a greater one. Guess it's kind of hard seeing demons as a "race" just like the others .

Because demons in DA are just reflection of mortal emotions, fixated on a single idea.  Demons are, by definition, not complex.

[MrMrPendragon]

An ancient fade creature. One of the first and most powerful inhabitants of the Fade - that is somehow connected to the origin of the red lyrium, and red lyrium being connected to the darkspawn taint

[DanielCofour]

So here's my 2 cents on this matter, which is something I've been suspecting for a time now. I think the Elder One is the main antagonist of DAI, since he's mentioned in relation to ending of the world, and in relation to the Fade Rifts.Also:(May contain spoilers for Masked Empire.)

 

Spoiler

It's quite likely that it has something to do with the Forbidden Ones, or a demon related to them in some way. This was kind of implied by the appearance of Imshael, one of the Forbidden Ones, in the Masked Empire, and his murder of Felassan. They are also the ones who taught the Magisters Blood Magic

 

Also, the Forgotten Ones are the "evil" gods of the elves. From the Wiki. They were the ones tricked by Fen'Harel. The Forgotten Ones are early similar to the Forbidden Ones. There is four of them Anaris, Geldauran, Daern'thal and Fen'Harel. There are also four Forbidden Ones: Xebenkeck, Imshael, Gaxkang and the Formless One. Since Mike Laidlaw stated that the lore of the world is ambiguous and it's written from the perspective of the characters, and the actual lore is known only to people at Bioware, it is possible that these groups are the same, ancient powerful demons, only with different names to different people. Forgotten to the Dalish and Forbidden to Tevinter. 

 

Anyway, long story short, I think the Elder One is the same as the Formless One, or otherwise known as Fen'harel, maybe. 

 

Corypheus, or Flemeth

 

I doubt it. Corypheus is a darkspawn magister, he was taught blood magic by someone else, either Dumat or the Forbidden Ones. He was a victim of the incident at the Black City, and not the mastermind behind it. Flemeth by all indication is more of an observer than an architect of events. So no, they are unlikely to be the Elder Ones.